Demogame Moderators and Participation

[Grandmaster]

I wish I could say I am for having mods in the gov't. (eyrei, Shaitan, CT and others would be amazing leaders) but I have a nightmare that one day we're gonna get a mod who isn't such an upstanding citizen, he'll make it to office, and start banning all political opposition (can you say Game of Dictatorship? I know you can...) Although I know we can trust our current mods, the possibility of power abuse (power corrupts even the strongest of character) is just too great to allow them into government.

Edit: I made my point a bit late, didn't I?.....

 

[BCLG100]

grandmaster that isnt really going to happen mods are only made mods when they are trustworthy and if they ever started doing such things for no real reason Tf would de mod them quicker that they could do anything else

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

BCLG is right.

I believe that even when banned you can PM or email TF, so the word would get out, and several players like me, would be in the site feedback thread that day with complaints filed.

Bill

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Okay, we have discussed this pretty well, how about we look at a proposed change. Here is the wording for the proposal I recommend. Feel free to comment.

The text of the poll would be:

Change to Code of Laws
Section F, Points 3 and 4

Moderator Election to Office

The CoL currently states:

Section F Forum Moderators
Point 1 Are responsible for handling elections and site maintenance.
Point 2 Are responsible for enforcing Civfanatics Forum rules within the Democracy Game Forums.
Point 3 Are not officials.
Point 4 May not hold Leader positions.


This proposal would remove Point 4, and change Point 3 to say:

Section F Forum Moderators
Point 1 Are responsible for handling elections and site maintenance.
Point 2 Are responsible for enforcing Civfanatics Forum rules within the Democracy Game Forums.
Point 3 Are not officials in the demogame government just by virture of their status as Moderators. However, Moderators may stand for election, or appointment, to any office or position as allowed to all citizens within the law.


The poll for this change would be as follows:

Shall we allow Moderators to hold any DemoGame office?

YES
NO
ABSTAIN

The relevant discussion for this change is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=550277#post550277

This poll is a change to the Code of Laws, and requires a 2/3 approval by half of the census. In clear terms, that means it needs 19 votes overall, and 13 YES votes to pass.

This poll will remain open for 48 hours minimum, or until a quorum is achieved.

EDIT: Corrected spelling error

 

[FortyJ]

Except for the typo ("virutre" instead of "virtue"), I see nothing wrong with your proposal. Let's put it to a vote.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by FortyJ
Except for the typo ("virutre" instead of "virtue"), I see nothing wrong with your proposal. Let's put it to a vote.

Doh!

Good catch FortyJ

 

[Shaitan]

Superb. I'm assuming Bill finds it okay constitutionally. What about the other justices?

 

[donsig]

I think points 1 & 2 should begin with the words Demo game moderators.

We should also have a point 4 which reads to the effect that forum moderators do not enforce demo game rules.

 

[FionnMcCumhall]

i think thats implied

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Superb. I'm assuming Bill finds it okay constitutionally. What about the other justices?

I was waiting to post it for two things:

1) Any changes anyone is looking for, and i think donsig may be on to something...

2) Leningardo is still absent and I am acting for him, so technically as soon as I like it, it passes review. ;-0

Off Topic: This is my 1000th post. I'll never catch disorganizer, and heck, I was ahead of him by a few posts when he first joined the demo game, but I am still proud of it.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Change to Code of Laws
Section F, Points 1 through 4

Moderator Election to Office

The CoL currently states:

Section F Forum Moderators
Point 1 Are responsible for handling elections and site maintenance.
Point 2 Are responsible for enforcing Civfanatics Forum rules within the Democracy Game Forums.
Point 3 Are not officials.
Point 4 May not hold Leader positions.

This proposal would modify this code of law to clarify moderator roles, and allow their full participation as citizens:

Section F Forum Moderators
Point 1 Democracy game forum moderators are responsible for handling elections and site maintenance.
Point 2 Democracy game forum moderators are responsible for enforcing Civfanatics Forum rules within the Democracy Game Forums.
Point 3 Are not officials in the demogame government just by virture of their status as Moderators. However, Moderators, properly registered as citizens, may stand for election, or appointment, to any office, or position, as allowed to all citizens within the law.
Point 4 Do not enforce Democracy Game specific rules, unless they have been elected, or appointed, to an office that is tasked with such functions.

=================
How do we feel about those changes. Seems pretty specific to me now.

Edited to clarify that mods must also register as citizens to stand for election.

Bill

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
i think thats implied

Well, I thought it was implied as well during the original debates over this rule. Since then we have had CT acting as a moderator in the demo game forum. Eyrei has also recently threatened to unilaterally remove our governor even though we have a demo game rule for dealing with absentee governors.

So, I'd rather have these things stated explicitly.

 

[Cyc]

Then, I think Point three should read - However, Moderators who are registered Demogame citizens, may stand for...

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by Cyc
Then, I think Point three should read - However, Moderators who are registered Demogame citizens, may stand for...

I think the line about "within the law" may have covered it, but I think you have a excellent point, and clarity is never a bad thing, so I made the change as you requested.

Bill

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig


Well, I thought it was implied as well during the original debates over this rule. Since then we have had CT acting as a moderator in the demo game forum. Eyrei has also recently threatened to unilaterally remove our governor even though we have a demo game rule for dealing with absentee governors.

So, I'd rather have these things stated explicitly.

Hehe. But still noone has started this PI. Since we don't have actual deputy governors to take his place, something needs to be done.

 

[donsig]

See section J of the CoS. It is in the President's hands.

Why don't we have deputy governors? Doesn't this count?

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by donsig
See section J of the CoS. It is in the President's hands.

Why don't we have deputy governors? Doesn't this count?

Unfortunately, that took place after the election. The really funny part is that abstain was the runner up....

 

[Octavian X]

I've been trying to post this all day, but the forums have been busy...

As I have been in the past, I oppose this measure. And again, I state that I have nothing against eyrei and Shaitan. I simply feel that the powers granted upon them as mods could be used by someone less trustworthy in electioned.
Mods have the power to alter the number of votes n a poll. The confilct of interests this could cause is great. Either way, the job of a moderator is already difficult, having to read virtually every post in the forum. It is possible that a mod couldn't work up to their full potential, as part of their time is used 'modding.'

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Octavian X
I've been trying to post this all day, but the forums have been busy...

As I have been in the past, I oppose this measure. And again, I state that I have nothing against eyrei and Shaitan. I simply feel that the powers granted upon them as mods could be used by someone less trustworthy in electioned.
Mods have the power to alter the number of votes n a poll. The confilct of interests this could cause is great. Either way, the job of a moderator is already difficult, having to read virtually every post in the forum. It is possible that a mod couldn't work up to their full potential, as part of their time is used 'modding.'

Well, right now we will be fine. I don't intend to run for a government position for an indefinate period of time, so I would handle the elections if Shaitan wanted to run for office.

Just as a note, only Shaitan and I (and Thunderfall) can alter the votes on these polls.

I am absolutely certain that there will be no poll altering by mods to suit our own purposes. What would be the point, really? Manipulating the masses is only fun when it takes some effort.

If there are more objections regarding the altering of polls, particularly during election time, we can handle any election in which a moderator is a candidate by PM. I don't really think that is necessary, but....

 

[Octavian X]

Originally posted by eyrei
Manipulating the masses is only fun when it takes some effort.

Ok, now I'm scared

I'm just scared this legislation will bite us in the @$$ later on.

Let' say TF appoints 'Mr. EvilMod' to moderate this forum. He nomintes himself for office, and during the election, constantly modifes the poll slightly, so though no one notices, the poll ends up in his favor, and subsequently wins. And even if someone noticed, who is TF likely to believe, a complaining loser, or one of his own mods?