Department of General Musings

[soul_warrior]

my kind of thinking....

 

[Tubby Rower]

There is a new thread in the Main MTDG forum for a proposal to change the rule to now allow the use of MapStat & CAII. I suggest that we put such discussions here instead of the main Dept. of Turnplay thread to seperate the two discussions.

 

[Whomp]

I can't see any problems with these programs. But doesn't Mapstat have a way to see the whole map? I never looked at it too closely. I don't know how to use Mapstat in turn. I've always used it for the next turn. Is there a way? I haven't loaded CAII. Is there anything that could be spoilerish?

 

[Tubby Rower]

CAII is not a problem. Ainwood & his sidekick have done a great job. I'd recommend you d/l it. It has a lot of features and the help file is only online, but once you get used to it it's nice. It's the main reason I'm able to contribute so much while I'm at work

CrpSuite has some spoilerish programs. MapStat itself isn't but most people I think install the whole suite. Rings & Viewer have an option to eliminate the fog and see what other teams are doing.

 

[Whomp]

Well then maybe Crpsuite should be banned and CAII should be ok. I thought I saw a program from Crpsuite that gave a map.

 

[gmaharriet]

I have the entire CrpSuite, but have never tried using anything but the MapStat portion. I have two comments about it, and could use additional info if anyone knows.

Mapstat won't do anything on the turn you first load in a game first turn. I think it picks out its info from the autosave and that would start being useful on the second turn, so it might not be at all useful for playing a single turn. I dunno.

Secondly, it seems like MapStat gives you a choice between getting some sort of spoiler info as a setting when you first install it (probably can be changed from one game or turn to another). I can't recall what spoiler info it does give, so you'd have to be on your honor not to use the spoiler preference. (if in fact it even works for a single turn)

Dianthus would probably be the one to ask about those two questions.

I've been wanting to download CivAssistII, but I've noticed in the thread in the Utility Forum that a few people say it makes their computer run a lot slower and sometimes produces strange graphic glitches. I've been waiting for all of these apparent bugs to be resolved, since my machine is 3 years old and not so fast as the newer ones. I have a P4 1.9ghz 512 RAM.

My understanding is that it doesn't give any info you couldn't find manually in-game, but I don't have the patience to do it.

Edited to add: CrpSuite was originally designed for vanilla Civ and includes a module for Ring City Placement, which doesn't even apply to C3C. It isn't spoilerish in this instance...just obsolete.

 

[Bede]

If you right click anyplace in the CrpMapStat window it brings you a menu that will let you open any save without waiting for the auto save function to operate.

 

[Daghdha]

Kiech post in main thread could've been mine so my vote goes to YES, change the rule. Everyone can do the math with paper and pen given enough time but what's the gain? For some it might be the feeling of being "purer" than others but that doesn't do it for me.
Of course all utilities that can give spoiler info should be officially banned (even if used by some) but I'm not the the one to decide which does. Never looked for it, thus never found it.

 

[Crakie]

Change the rule. The rules already state it's not allowed to cheat, so even if the programs have shady features, you would not be allowed to use them. We are bound by a code of honour and if we feel we cannot rely on that, there's no point in playing the game to begin with.

 

[Whomp]

CivAssist II is designed to be spoiler-safe. The only things that I know of that are not spoiler safe in the latest version are:

It will show you which tiles have been deforested (Included by design).
You can apparently work-out which forest and jungle tiles are on bonus grassland vs normal grassland (bug / oversight)

I have not played PBEM or multiplayer myself for years, so have never rigorously tested it, but AFAIK CA-II is 'spoiler safe' for MP games. People who have played MP games can probably give more info than I can.

BTW - We're more than happy to fix anything that is identified, so please tell us if you find something.

I think the answer should be yes to Civassist II but based on Bede's comments so I'm not so sure about Mapstat though I'm still not sure how one opens mapstat interturn.
__________________

 

[Tubby Rower]

If you right-click anywhere on the MapStat window, there is a context menu that drops down. There is an "Open" and an "Open Recent" The Open will let you go and select a file to open. The Open Recent will search the Autosave directory for the most recent autosave and open it.

I presume (since I haven't tried it because of the rule) that you could open the save file that has been emailed to you. There is a drop-down box in the upper left hand corner which I don't know what it is for. In normal SP mode, it just has "<none>" and whatever the Civ that you are currently playing. Without someone allowing us to try it (due to the rule) then we are really just stabbing at the dark. I guess that I could create a "dummy" PBEM game with 4 teams & try it.

hmmm....I'll be back later with my findings. Let a monkey type enough and a good thought will come out . We've experienced that with SGOTM8 in Team Cutlery too . The only problem is that our team is last in score currently

 

[Tubby Rower]

Ok. I created a 4 team PBEM game and went through all of the teams and played the first turn. The passwords are as follows

team name - password
  team0 -> team0
  team1 -> team1
  team2 -> team2
  team3 -> team3
admininstrator -> admin

Load it into Mapstat and unless you put in a team's specific password (or the admin password) you cannot view Mapstat with that civ. The only thing that it gives you that is NOT in game is the civs that are playing in the game (well that is in F11) and their traits, starting techs, & UU. (well that's in the civlopedia).

 

[Tubby Rower]

It turns out that the final vote on the turn-log rule change was

d'nuts -> yes
TNT -> yes
MIA -> abstain
Kiss-> abstain.

Regent was saying that it didn't pass and after d'nuts posted their yes vote Provo said something about amending & re-voting. I told him that Kiss abstains and will remain that way. Then I read the rule about ruel changes..... It just says that it has to be 2/3. Well 100% is > 66%, so I concluded that the rule had actually passed.. Then Bootstoots said that it was 2/3 of all remaining teams. So I'm not sure what the deal is with it. It might turn into a political headache so I'm going to zip it in the main forum and vent here. I guess Whomp can give our official reply if something comes up.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Bootstoots posted a proposed rule change to amend the rule about changing the rules....This is getting silly. I'd say just vote yes and let's play the game.

 

[Whomp]

Honestly, I don't think any of us have a problem playing or posting the save. These guys need to have the confidence in letting multiple people play the save.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that they are stuck in Demo-game mode while we are mostly in SG-mode.

 

[Whomp]

Believe me there will come a point in time where I'd prefer to stand aside so one of the Grumpys or experienced PBEMers do some .

 

[Tubby Rower]

Mine is when war starts. I've never been good at it and in my SP games, I usually stay in it too long.

 

[gmaharriet]

If you right click anyplace in the CrpMapStat window it brings you a menu that will let you open any save without waiting for the auto save function to operate.

Thank you. I'll have to try that in one of my own games. It would be useful in playing a game I haven't touched for a few days or weeks.

So, is the answer that we CAN or CANNOT use MapStat?

You know, I don't understand all the nitpicking that goes on in the main forum about rules. Does this go on all the time in demo games? I'm sure glad I'm on this team!!!

 

[Whomp]

Does this go on all the time in demo games? I'm sure glad I'm on this team!!!

I hear dat! I am going to post two polls about rule changes, including the CA II and mapstat rule.