scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Whomp shadowed this one real-time with me tonight...so anyone wanting to shadow... send Whomp a note and ask for a copy of the chat log.
Here it is for turn 110:
Here it is for turn 110:
Spoiler :
Department of Turnplay
- Thread starter Whomp
- Start date
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
I think we should seriously consider building settlers from towns other than the capitol now. The capitol is our best city and is stuck at a low pop level for too long. Plus, we don't need many more settlers, so it's best getting the Capitol up to snuff with Markets and Lib's now.
edit: and to answer Scout's notion that there's too much food in the capitol to do anything but settlers, I say food is a good thing!
tile/food/shields
CC: 2/1
mined wine plain: 2/2
FP wheat: 6/0
mined cow grass: 4/2 -> can be forested to make it 3/3 later
3x mined BG's: 6/6
So, at size 6, and if my numbers are correct, we can be at 21(+9)f & 11s, meaning we are still growing like a weed but with good spt. Now, grow to size 7, using the mined hill, and we're at 14spt, and still with +8fpt food, meaning we'll grow to size 8 in 5 turns, so we can work a mined river plain @ size 8 to get +7fpt and +16spt. One can extrapolate on and on, but basically, we can get to our maximum size/spt output very quickly, all while working river tiles and the fish for maximum commerce. To let the capitol languish as a settler pump is insane, imho.
scout said:
edit: and to answer Scout's notion that there's too much food in the capitol to do anything but settlers, I say food is a good thing!
tile/food/shields
CC: 2/1
mined wine plain: 2/2
FP wheat: 6/0
mined cow grass: 4/2 -> can be forested to make it 3/3 later
3x mined BG's: 6/6
So, at size 6, and if my numbers are correct, we can be at 21(+9)f & 11s, meaning we are still growing like a weed but with good spt. Now, grow to size 7, using the mined hill, and we're at 14spt, and still with +8fpt food, meaning we'll grow to size 8 in 5 turns, so we can work a mined river plain @ size 8 to get +7fpt and +16spt. One can extrapolate on and on, but basically, we can get to our maximum size/spt output very quickly, all while working river tiles and the fish for maximum commerce. To let the capitol languish as a settler pump is insane, imho.
Graham--You are correct both the capital and FP need a lot of help. Its the most likely reason we are #2 in all stats except land area.
Do you think the capital should stop its current settler build and start some infrastructure?
The FP city is at its growth limit but has a lot of trees to chop for market/lib. Do you know the order of priority for chops(IE clockwise or counter, starting at top/bottom)?? Using wonders to direct the chop is one thing but we weren't sure the priority a city receives if it's shared between two.
Do you think the capital should stop its current settler build and start some infrastructure?
The FP city is at its growth limit but has a lot of trees to chop for market/lib. Do you know the order of priority for chops(IE clockwise or counter, starting at top/bottom)?? Using wonders to direct the chop is one thing but we weren't sure the priority a city receives if it's shared between two.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
Market 1st and if we can speed it along with a chop or 2, great. I haven't looked at the FP tiles, just the capitol. However, these 2 cities have the lowest corruption, so, at this point in the game (turn 100+), they have to be doing more than just building settlers. We should have other cities doing settler builds, while the capitol and FP build a market (1st) and then a library.
I would even suggest, esp. since we are religous, a temple + cathedral (then disband temple) to help with happy faces if we cannot get enough lux's. getting these 2 cities up to pop 12 should be an attainable goal.
I would even suggest, esp. since we are religous, a temple + cathedral (then disband temple) to help with happy faces if we cannot get enough lux's. getting these 2 cities up to pop 12 should be an attainable goal.
With a lux friendly environment I don't think we'll need anything more than markets for happiness (ivory, gems and maybe ?one other lux? are missing). We should discuss which 5-6s cities have the capability to start on settler/worker builds.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@grahamiam: I didn't mean to imply that food was a bad thing... it's more a problem of the condition of the tiles around the capitol. We simply need to make an investment in worker turns. I think your goals are reasonable in the intermediate- to long-term, but allowing that city to grow at the moment will simply result in citizens working unimproved tiles. I'd rather peel one or two workers out of there and get some tiles improved before starting infrastructure. I sent a worker in that general direction last turn... and I'm pretty sure one is mining a BG...
And BTW - we've already got Engineering, so we could plant trees on that cow tile now if we want to... doesn't sound like a bad idea to me...but I want to double-check to make sure it's not a BG...
We could probably stop pumping settlers out of our capitol and get them out of Ignoramus. There is a granary in the queue there...though I was primarily thinking of peeling some workers out of there when I did that.
The FP city is in similar shape... we need to road and mine some more stuff...and I was planning on alternating Gallics and workers there until I got about 3 or 4 workers to chop trees and do the terrain improvements.
@Whomp: I don't think the FP city is at its growth limit...IIRC it's on a river.
...but in all... settler peels in some of our other towns might make more sense... we do have a couple of large-ish towns that might do with a settler peel after their current builds. We don't seem to have any trouble keeping size 7 towns happy w/o a market, and I think we can keep them happy at size 10 with a market... but size 12 might be tough without another lux.
A lot of post this is rambling..."thinking out loud"... @G-man - you've given me some good food for thought.
And BTW - we've already got Engineering, so we could plant trees on that cow tile now if we want to... doesn't sound like a bad idea to me...but I want to double-check to make sure it's not a BG...
We could probably stop pumping settlers out of our capitol and get them out of Ignoramus. There is a granary in the queue there...though I was primarily thinking of peeling some workers out of there when I did that.
The FP city is in similar shape... we need to road and mine some more stuff...and I was planning on alternating Gallics and workers there until I got about 3 or 4 workers to chop trees and do the terrain improvements.
@Whomp: I don't think the FP city is at its growth limit...IIRC it's on a river.
...but in all... settler peels in some of our other towns might make more sense... we do have a couple of large-ish towns that might do with a settler peel after their current builds. We don't seem to have any trouble keeping size 7 towns happy w/o a market, and I think we can keep them happy at size 10 with a market... but size 12 might be tough without another lux.
A lot of post this is rambling..."thinking out loud"... @G-man - you've given me some good food for thought.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
then get some workers now for the capitol and stop farting around with settlers for the outlying spaces 
I agree that the capitol needs work, I just want to emphasize that we need to do it now, especially if we want to keep up with our rivals. We have fish + wines + river tiles = lots of beakers/cash that we waste every turn it's not getting larger. We also have at least 3 BG's + cow + hill = 12spt wasted every turn we're not working them
I agree that the capitol needs work, I just want to emphasize that we need to do it now, especially if we want to keep up with our rivals. We have fish + wines + river tiles = lots of beakers/cash that we waste every turn it's not getting larger. We also have at least 3 BG's + cow + hill = 12spt wasted every turn we're not working them 
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
I believe the charts I've seen for chops that are equidistant show clockwise, beginning at about the 1 or 2 o'clock position.Whomp said:
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Log for Turn 111:
On the IBT-
Dunderhead Gallic Sword> Settler
Jesterton Galley> Market
Start the turn at 114g+97gpt, Feudalism in 4.
F3 Check: Strong to 'nuts and TNT...Average to MIA.
F11 Check: We are now #1 in MFG Goods!
Worker stuph:
RegentMan roads at Dresden. G-Man Roads at Knucklehead. Smart irrigates at
Devil's Soul. Grandma Harriet roads at SKWTD. Bootilicious roads on a FP
tile that can be shared between Igrnoramus and our capitol. Daghda heads for
Polecat. Bootsy heads towards DuMass.
Settler heads towards Gilfach. Nincompoopicity founded on the tile that
Grahamiam preferred over "Site #5". Starts a Worker.
City stuff. Barracks as a short rush in Devil's Soul will cost 28g. Done.
Library short rush in SKWTD will cost 44g. Done.
Swap Simpleton to Market. Balance production to 10spt, short rush an
Archer for 16g. Market in 8.
Unit Moves: Danny Buoy (Galley) moves to the coast on The Other Continent.
Josie Wales and Flyin' Elvis offload. Weezer and Morpheus spot some barbs
near Dresden. Wake a Catapult and send it to Cretinograph for an upgrade.
Most Gallic Swords stay put. The Collector and Invincible head north.
We finish the turn at 26g, +103gpt, Feudalism in 4. With troops (okay...not
exactly "many") on The Other Continent.
As a last-minute executive decision... I decide to spend 20g to investigate
the TNT city of Furbomb.
On the IBT-
Dunderhead Gallic Sword> Settler
Jesterton Galley> Market
Start the turn at 114g+97gpt, Feudalism in 4.
F3 Check: Strong to 'nuts and TNT...Average to MIA.
F11 Check: We are now #1 in MFG Goods!
Worker stuph:
RegentMan roads at Dresden. G-Man Roads at Knucklehead. Smart irrigates at
Devil's Soul. Grandma Harriet roads at SKWTD. Bootilicious roads on a FP
tile that can be shared between Igrnoramus and our capitol. Daghda heads for
Polecat. Bootsy heads towards DuMass.
Settler heads towards Gilfach. Nincompoopicity founded on the tile that
Grahamiam preferred over "Site #5". Starts a Worker.
City stuff. Barracks as a short rush in Devil's Soul will cost 28g. Done.
Library short rush in SKWTD will cost 44g. Done.
Swap Simpleton to Market. Balance production to 10spt, short rush an
Archer for 16g. Market in 8.
Unit Moves: Danny Buoy (Galley) moves to the coast on The Other Continent.
Josie Wales and Flyin' Elvis offload. Weezer and Morpheus spot some barbs
near Dresden. Wake a Catapult and send it to Cretinograph for an upgrade.
Most Gallic Swords stay put. The Collector and Invincible head north.
We finish the turn at 26g, +103gpt, Feudalism in 4. With troops (okay...not
exactly "many") on The Other Continent.
As a last-minute executive decision... I decide to spend 20g to investigate
the TNT city of Furbomb.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
What about joining some workers back into Simpleton? Are we at a position that we could do that? or is that a 
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
why are there no other Libraries other than the one in D'head? We have at least 4 cities that would benefit from them.
My guess to the answer is that markets are being built to help with happiness and they will be built after the markets. But I was just curious as to the reasoning.
My guess to the answer is that markets are being built to help with happiness and they will be built after the markets. But I was just curious as to the reasoning.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@Tubby: With a granary and something like +6fpt... growing Simpleton isn't going to be a problem. The problem is keeping it happy until the market is built.
...and yes, many of our cities need markets in a big way. The 7th citizen in our size 7 cities w/o markets is a specialist. I think we're okay on the research, but the libraries will have to wait until a few more markets get built. I've also got some cities building units, as we don't want to fall behind MIA. There is a market under contstruction in a western city. Once that is built (and can be swapped to unit builds) we can build a Library in Dunderhead.
My overall strategy with city management is to convert some of our surplus food to Specialists. This should offset MIA's corruption advantage... to a certain extent. I'm running ... I think 30% research at the moment, and next turn I will have ~100gpt to use for short rushing improvements... mostly markets and libraries.
...and yes, many of our cities need markets in a big way. The 7th citizen in our size 7 cities w/o markets is a specialist. I think we're okay on the research, but the libraries will have to wait until a few more markets get built. I've also got some cities building units, as we don't want to fall behind MIA. There is a market under contstruction in a western city. Once that is built (and can be swapped to unit builds) we can build a Library in Dunderhead.
My overall strategy with city management is to convert some of our surplus food to Specialists. This should offset MIA's corruption advantage... to a certain extent. I'm running ... I think 30% research at the moment, and next turn I will have ~100gpt to use for short rushing improvements... mostly markets and libraries.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I noticed that the save was in and was looking and had an idea.... Why not travel the seas and settle the ivory on the other continent? It seems as though TNT's expansion is towards the straight near Furbomb. But I haven't seen a city at all on the other side. There is an unclaimed ivery right over there and I think that it might be worth the risk to go capture it right after Our dealings with TNT are complete. 
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Log for Turn 112:
Are you happy now,
with all the choices you've made?
Did you compromise, and realize
the price was too much to pay?
None of our towns produced anything this turn.
F1: 110g, +104gpt, Feudalism in 3.
F3: We are Strong to 'nuts, TNT. Average to MIA.
F6: We are Technologically Advanced!
F8: We have 16% of world area v. MIA 15%.
31% of Population, v. MIA 32%
Current score: 667 v. MIA 659
F11: We've slipped back to #2 in MFG goods.
Rush Opportunities:
Market in SKWTD will cost 52g.
Granary in Knucklehead will cost 44g.
Harbor in Devil's Soul will cost 68g.
Granary short rush in Notthefullshilling will cost 72g.
The Harbor in Devil's Soul is a priority, so it gets rushed to completion. Spend 52g rushing the market in SKWTD
City stuff:
MM Idiote for growth. Swap Polecat to Market. Swap Village d'Idiota to Library...because we won't need a trebuchet next turn.
Unit stuff: Get a Trebuchet headed to EWR, move a Cat to Cretinograph for upgrade.
A.R.S.E. Igor's Hope heals in Devil's Soul. Bede's Boat heads for Devil's Soul. Fool's Errand makes for the tradewinds... (towards the north, eventually towards TNT...) Galley renamed Hunky Dory heads west.
GS Morpheus disperses a barb camp and is promoted!!! A couple more Gallic Swords move "in the general direction" of TNT. Our two scouting Gallics get back on the boat. (I'm going to use that boat to move a settler next turn.)
Worker Stuff:
J Walker and Scruffy road a Banana tile at Cyprus Creek. Daghda heads to a forest tile at Polecat. Bootsy roads at DuMass. Bede roads at Village d'Idiota. Worker re-named "Bubba" heads for Fortress of Stupidity.
After a little MM, end the turn at 15g, +108gpt.
Are you happy now,
with all the choices you've made?
Did you compromise, and realize
the price was too much to pay?
None of our towns produced anything this turn.
F1: 110g, +104gpt, Feudalism in 3.
F3: We are Strong to 'nuts, TNT. Average to MIA.
F6: We are Technologically Advanced!
F8: We have 16% of world area v. MIA 15%.
31% of Population, v. MIA 32%
Current score: 667 v. MIA 659
F11: We've slipped back to #2 in MFG goods.
Rush Opportunities:
Market in SKWTD will cost 52g.
Granary in Knucklehead will cost 44g.
Harbor in Devil's Soul will cost 68g.
Granary short rush in Notthefullshilling will cost 72g.
The Harbor in Devil's Soul is a priority, so it gets rushed to completion. Spend 52g rushing the market in SKWTD
City stuff:
MM Idiote for growth. Swap Polecat to Market. Swap Village d'Idiota to Library...because we won't need a trebuchet next turn.
Unit stuff: Get a Trebuchet headed to EWR, move a Cat to Cretinograph for upgrade.
A.R.S.E. Igor's Hope heals in Devil's Soul. Bede's Boat heads for Devil's Soul. Fool's Errand makes for the tradewinds... (towards the north, eventually towards TNT...) Galley renamed Hunky Dory heads west.
GS Morpheus disperses a barb camp and is promoted!!! A couple more Gallic Swords move "in the general direction" of TNT. Our two scouting Gallics get back on the boat. (I'm going to use that boat to move a settler next turn.)
Worker Stuff:
J Walker and Scruffy road a Banana tile at Cyprus Creek. Daghda heads to a forest tile at Polecat. Bootsy roads at DuMass. Bede roads at Village d'Idiota. Worker re-named "Bubba" heads for Fortress of Stupidity.
After a little MM, end the turn at 15g, +108gpt.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Nice poem, but what does it mean? Are we in anarchy, and if so, why? The TNT whack should be done within 10 turns razing Carpetbomb and Grenadopolis and then demanding. How much WW could we get? We could even gamble on max garrison of one pike per city, and drop 4 GS's each, on same turn, by C-bomb, G-polis and Furbomb. The mission would be over rather fast.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
It doesn't mean anything in particular... a snippet of some lyrics I looked up and neglected to blast out of the text file before typing the log. The song is by Social Distortion, and it's called Winners and Losers. It was going through my head for some reason.Daghdha said:
I took the Gallics off the mountain, as I wanted to re-direct the galley to move a settler. I'm going to gather a little more strength, and hit TNT a little harder in a few more turns. Next turn I will be able to upgrade 2 Curraughs to Galleys, and I've got another galley on the way. Our market will come in at Knucklehead, which can start building Gallics in earnest...
Katie bar the door. Put los niños in the cellar! 
Kickbooti
Ecclesia Militans
Whomp said:
I know Whomp heard that a lot while he was in Mexico, I wonder if he knows what it means?
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I was just looking at the save and it appears to me that the sci rate could be increased to shave a turn off of Fued. I'm sure that this has been looked at and rushing infra is a good idea IMO since we are about to start up a GA. But I was just throwing that out there just in case.
Keep up the good work ss!
Keep up the good work ss!
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