Design: Heroes

[Maian]

Curiosity + free time got the better of me, so I tried to fix the Loki behavior.

edit: removed outdated code

 

[Kael]

This had already all been rewritten in 0.13. The changelog shows all changes that have already been made: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171497

 

[Maian]

Well the changelog only said "Fixed an error if loki tried to run beside a city" which is unrelated to what I was trying to fix.

 

[Starship]

Wanted to say I am a big fan of the evolving heroes idea. I like the idea for player civs, but I love the idea for barbarians. It would be great to have a whole random bag of Barbarian heroes that could come to be. If a warrior reaches a certain level, BAM he becomes a character from Kael's world. Maybe the heroes could be recruited if paid enough, or a service was done? I'm sure you have some slush NPC's running around in your old spiral books. It would be really fun. Just at a basic level, even if attributes weren't all that different, to fight/interact with barbarian heroes.

Ex: That Mage rogue, that was suggested, w/the creepy child ghost following him around. Good dark flavor.

 

[Xuenay]

I'm not sure if something like this has been suggested before, but I got an idea for a powerful end-game hero, perhaps Armageddon-related. It would start out with pretty high experience when it was built, and gain double experience whenever it won a combat. But instead of constantly gaining experience like other heroes, it would automatically lose one point of XP every turn, being destroyed when it hit zero XP. That would force the builder of the hero to go out to war with it if they wanted to benefit, and lead to all sorts of interesting decisions... do I stop to heal for a couple of turns now to regain health and have a better chance of succeeding in the next attack, or do I press on with the attack to get the experience now since I don't know when the next chance to get XP would be? (You'd probably want to give this hero a relatively high withdrawal chance)

There'd be the AI problem again, but maybe it could just be given a hero AI with drastically reduced thresholds for needed attack success chance... or something. It'd be a heck of a fun unit for us humans.

 

[Kael]

I'm not sure if something like this has been suggested before, but I got an idea for a powerful end-game hero, perhaps Armageddon-related. It would start out with pretty high experience when it was built, and gain double experience whenever it won a combat. But instead of constantly gaining experience like other heroes, it would automatically lose one point of XP every turn, being destroyed when it hit zero XP. That would force the builder of the hero to go out to war with it if they wanted to benefit, and lead to all sorts of interesting decisions... do I stop to heal for a couple of turns now to regain health and have a better chance of succeeding in the next attack, or do I press on with the attack to get the experience now since I don't know when the next chance to get XP would be? (You'd probably want to give this hero a relatively high withdrawal chance)

There'd be the AI problem again, but maybe it could just be given a hero AI with drastically reduced thresholds for needed attack success chance... or something. It'd be a heck of a fun unit for us humans.

That is an interesting idea, similiar to the pit beast and hosts mechanic we have now that allows them to stick around as long as they win a combat every turn. I like your take on it too which is more forgiving. Alternativly a unit could gain some icombat/strength everytime it wins a combat and lose one each round that it doesn't and if its icombat hits 0 it dies.

 

[H.GrenadeFrenzy]

The Deep Sleeper
Unit Type:Giant Octapus(World Unit)
Strength:34
Movement:4
Promotions:Amphibious,Blitz,Invisible In Water(until 1 square away), Mind Spells All,Hero Promotion
This Hero is 'The Ancient Octopus thought to be the Source of the Religion by rumor but in fact is simply the founders favorite pet.

 

[Thunderwing]

Just thought I'd point out a little thing I noticed with Donal Lugh, the bannor hero. It's next to impossible for the AI as Veil to take a city he's in. he just keeps slaughtering summons to recharge that 2x power recruit thing and in a few turns you have an army big enough to slaughter any concieveable attack. He completely inverts the standard summoner strategies because most summons recharge that ability. You should probably not let it recharge on skellies and Drowned or 1-turn summons.

 

[loki1232]

Just thought I'd point out a little thing I noticed with Donal Lugh, the bannor hero. It's next to impossible for the AI as Veil to take a city he's in. he just keeps slaughtering summons to recharge that 2x power recruit thing and in a few turns you have an army big enough to slaughter any concieveable attack. He completely inverts the standard summoner strategies because most summons recharge that ability. You should probably not let it recharge on skellies and Drowned or 1-turn summons.

Isn't everyone else comlaining that magic is overpowered?

 

[Kael]

I dont really have a problem with Donal's ability. The problem here is that the AI is throwing useless attackers against an opponent. In my experience the AI does a decent job at this (Talchas had some code in to keep summons from happening if there was no real point). But thats not to say it couldn't be better.

 

[Thunderwing]

When are we going to see this 'Avatar units' catagory that keeps getting mentioned. Dragons and golems the size of a skyscraper should not be vulnerable to shock tactics. Personally, I think dragons should have their own type and Dragon Slaying should be +80, and available to any unit with combat 1 at level 6 or above, given that a unit can do it 3 times at most in the current setup.

 

[Kael]

When are we going to see this 'Avatar units' catagory that keeps getting mentioned. Dragons and golems the size of a skyscraper should not be vulnerable to shock tactics. Personally, I think dragons should have their own type and Dragon Slaying should be +80, and available to any unit with combat 1 at level 6 or above, given that a unit can do it 3 times at most in the current setup.

There are 3 avatars in the game right now. The Avatar of Wrath, Meshabber of Dis, and the Mithril Golem. There will probably be more added in "Fire".

There are no golems in 0.12 that are effected by shock (that I am aware of). The Dragons are as melee units and you are probably right that we probably need a "Monster" or "Beast" unitcombat to handle them and some other stuff like krakens.

As for Dragonslaying your right that it isn't incrediably useful overall but the +40% can be nice if you are linging up for an Acheron run. And I don't want to increase it more and make the dragons to easy to kill.

 

[Jono]

Untitled (Hippus Hero, Mounted/Melee): 3 Strength, 5 Movement while mounted (Cargo Space: 4 Corpses). As a melee unit, he has 10 Strength and 1 Movement (Cargo Space: 3 Corpses). Only turns into a melee unit while in a range of 3 tiles of an enemy city. After certain fights, with many casualties, you will be able to find a Corpse unit. The unit would have 0 movement and only have a few uses, it is invisible to most and instead of being captured it can only be "picked up" by certain units (this hero being one of them). Once picked up the hero will carry the corpses back to a city with a Mercenaries Guild (+1 gold, -1 happy). The Guild will give certain bonuses every corpse was given to them (depending on the unit's promotions — the promotions of the dead unit). The hero starts with: Hero, Commando, Blitz, March and Medic I.

 

[eerr]

ugh, not every one wants to deal with corpses, how about trophies from defeated foes?

 

[Jono]

ugh, not every one wants to deal with corpses, how about trophies from defeated foes?

You don't have to be the one that kills them... That's what I thought would make it better

 

[eerr]

i wouldn't mind it, but not everyone likes the ashen veil and OO religious type stuff...
what would be cool is some sort of hero/magic entity who learns the promotions(not the sphere or channeling promotions) of the foes he defeats
(early game hero so he can't be water walking over and winning vs queens of the line)
this one won't gain xp like normal heros

also, for the avatar that loses xp, he can get the anti hero promotion...
brings new meaning to it eh?

 

[Jono]

i wouldn't mind it, but not everyone likes the ashen veil and OO religious type stuff...
what would be cool is some sort of hero/magic entity who learns the promotions(not the sphere or channeling promotions) of the foes he defeats
(early game hero so he can't be water walking over and winning vs queens of the line)
this one won't gain xp like normal heros

also, for the avatar that loses xp, he can get the anti hero promotion...
brings new meaning to it eh?

I never said it was AV or OO... I could see anyone dealing with corpses for his own benefit... It could be the only way the unit gains xp or something...

 

[eerr]

i just mean the undead/demonic sorta theme...
namely that we should avoid the theme where it doesn't really need to be so we don't freak anyone out when they see corpses under their units
and what right minded hero would do that under the order/runes of kilmorph?

 

[Silverkiss]

Remember... its Dark Fantasy.... even the goodies aren´t that good

 

[Jono]

i just mean the undead/demonic sorta theme...
namely that we should avoid the theme where it doesn't really need to be so we don't freak anyone out when they see corpses under their units
and what right minded hero would do that under the order/runes of kilmorph?

First off, all of these religious heroes are out there killing people anyways, why wouldn't they drag them back for a certain reward? And secondly, I don't see why people would freak out — if they don't want to see corpses, they shouldn't build the few units that can carry and see corpses.