Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

[Urdnot_Scott]

I want to have a change of capitals thing with them, symbolizing their expansion across north africa. There was a nice bonus to having different religions in captured cities as well, but I'm not sure what's the final design gonna be.

I was planning on the capital changing being a decision, since the only big change was the shift to Cairo, the other 3 capitals were a stones throw away from each other and shifting the capital around like that was fairly common practice for Muslim empires of the time. The idea was that the army and the people needed to be separated no matter what or the army would become decadent and start caring about wealth and happiness and normal things rather than being good little slaves. Plus it was basically how you showed off your prestige at the time, it wasn't like Europe at the time which had fairly static capitals outside of the HRE where ancient and important cities were valued as symbols of wealth and power (Constantinople, Rome, Paris etc.) nor was it particularly easy for one to find a nice defensible spot to locate your capital - when most of your territory is flat expanses of desert or grassland, all spots are roughly equal. So, it became fashionable for rulers to build a nice new capital whenever they had enough money, it wasn't unique to the Fatimids by any means.

What, no Granada/Moroccan civ led by Sayyida al Hurra?

If I ever did a Barbary Pirates I'd think about it, but probably not

 

[Tarmont]

I was planning on the capital changing being a decision, since the only big change was the shift to Cairo, the other 3 capitals were a stones throw away from each other and shifting the capital around like that was fairly common practice for Muslim empires of the time. The idea was that the army and the people needed to be separated no matter what or the army would become decadent and start caring about wealth and happiness and normal things rather than being good little slaves. Plus it was basically how you showed off your prestige at the time, it wasn't like Europe at the time which had fairly static capitals outside of the HRE where ancient and important cities were valued as symbols of wealth and power (Constantinople, Rome, Paris etc.) nor was it particularly easy for one to find a nice defensible spot to locate your capital - when most of your territory is flat expanses of desert or grassland, all spots are roughly equal. So, it became fashionable for rulers to build a nice new capital whenever they had enough money, it wasn't unique to the Fatimids by any means.

My hopes and dreams were crushed ;~;

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Ehh feel free to do it anyway, if you really like the design. I mean I suppose the founding of Cairo is certainly an important moment, and a capital change mechanic could be said to represent that, I'm just trying to give some historical justification for not doing it. Its not like many people would call you out on the design being ahistorical! I'm just writing an essay on the Fatimids as we speak and have had my head buried in lots of obscure books about them all week.

 

[Natan35]

Just throwing some thoughts here:

Göktürk Khagante(Illig Qaghan)
UA: Onuq
Each city you found increases production towards mounted units and grants culture upon training them. Upon signing a peace treaty, gain great general points based on the production contributed towards units in the last 5 turns.

UU: Iron Cavalry
Replaces horseman. Have no penalty against cities, and gain a 5% combat bonus against units and 5% combat bonus against cities per each unused source of horses and iron, respectively. Also gain the Alliance of the Wei River Promotion, which will grant you gold each time this unit ends the turn near enemy cities, doubled in river tiles.

UU: Qaghan
Replaces great general. Unlike it, may not build citadels but may start a rebellion in enemy territory, causing all cities owned by the enemy but not founded by him to enter resistance(time scales with the amount of cities you own). Doing so will also halt resistance in your cities, and will grant production towards units per each turn of resistance prevented. Has 4 movement, and grants 2 horses upon birth.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Here's an incomplete Syracuse that I could use some feedback on:

Ancient Syracuse

Leader: Dionysus I

UA: Military Innovation: Engineer and Scientist specialists contribute Points towards each other and increase Siege and Armor unit Production by 5% (max 30%).

UU: Gastraphetes: Replaces the Crossbowman and the Composite Bowman and comes in between at Engineering. Has a 25% Combat bonus vs fortified units and cities. Counts as a Siege unit for the benefits of the UA.

UB: Claw of Archimedes: Replaces Walls, but comes at Mathematics. 1 Engineer Specialist slot. Deals 15 damage to enemies that end their turn adjacent to this city. Gain Science whenever an enemy unit is killed in this city's borders.

The UA needs another half that I would want to be about science/techs from war, but I can't think of anything good that wouldn't be too OP. The reason the UU replaces two units is because the Gastraphetes was an earlier crossbow used by the Greeks, but there's only one tech between Composites and Crossbows so I figured I might as well make it replace both so you don't spend so much gold on upgrades in such little time. How does it currently look and any suggestions for the rest of the UA?

 

[Howard Tafty]

Here's an incomplete Syracuse that I could use some feedback on:



The UA needs another half that I would want to be about science/techs from war, but I can't think of anything good that wouldn't be too OP. The reason the UU replaces two units is because the Gastraphetes was an earlier crossbow used by the Greeks, but there's only one tech between Composites and Crossbows so I figured I might as well make it replace both so you don't spend so much gold on upgrades in such little time. How does it currently look and any suggestions for the rest of the UA?

It sounds pretty interesting. the best thing I could think of for an additional UA half is:

After discovering a Militaristic Technology* all Units immediately receive an EXP boost or Upgrade cost reduction for ? turns

A militaristic technology would probably be anything that unlocks a military building or unit and makes sense for the UA name being "Militaristic Innovation" or maybe it could occur only during War or something.

As for the UU its okay but what starting Combat Strength would it have? the Crossbows or the Composites or the Crossbow?

The UB is easily my favorite part of the civ because it actually encourages defensive warfare something I rarely actually due because thats not how domination victories are normally played.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

For the rest of the UA, and given the nature of the defense of Syracuse under Archimedes, what about something like: "Cities generate points towards Great Scientists/Engineers equal to the damage they deal"?

 

[GPuzzle]

There are two things I would add change - make the Gastraphetes be available as a Composite Bowman and as a Crossbowman with the appropriate combat strength, but automatically upgrade once you discover the proper technology.

Also, give the Science property from the UB to the UA, and it's pretty much solved. Alternatively, "gain a production boost in each city whenever you research a Tech that provides a new Unit."

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I recall having discussed some months ago about a civ where cities got promotions from Combat and whether it'd be doable... this one would be a nice fit for that mechanic.

 

[GPuzzle]

I recall having discussed some months ago about a civ that got promotions from Combat and whether it'd be doable... this one would be a nice fit for that mechanic.

Wait, what?

 

[Klisz]

I recall having discussed some months ago about a civ that got promotions from Combat and whether it'd be doable... this one would be a nice fit for that mechanic.

Isn't combat the standard way to get promotions?

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I meant cities getting promotions, that was the change. Seems like I derped.

 

[GPuzzle]

Yeah, you did done goofed.

But IIRC it's pretty much impossible.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

GPuzzle's idea about auto upgrading was what I initially thought of. I think I'll go with that for the UU as I'm not sure how to make a unit replace two units anyway. Also, does the current focus on both offensive and defensive war sound good? It made sense to me since Syracuse made lots of military inventions. Some like the gastrapehtes and Syracusia (one of the largest ships in antiquity) were for offense and others like the claw and the legendary heat ray were for defense. Is it fine that they have bonuses for both or should I just stick to one?

 

[Hoop Thrower]

I'd focus on defensive war mostly because there's few civilizations out there that do so.

 

[Howard Tafty]

*cough* Sasquatch's Texas *cough*

No but seriously I think defensive would be pretty good general focus.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Any suggestions for a more powerful and consistent first half of the UA and/or UB? If I'm gonna make the second half "gain science more killing units in your territory" and leave the UB with the same effects (minus the science from kills obviously), I think the civ will be lacking enough bonuses that don't involve being invaded for it to be useful.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Maybe something like "Scientist & Engineer Specialists contribute production towards Siege units? In the spirit of the first version of the UA, it'd be some sort of take and hold civ.

 

[Natan35]

Yeah... Well, how about something like that?

UA: Military innovation
During unit construction, engineer and scientist specialists generate GP points of the appropriate type equal to the amount of obsolete units from the same class. Cities grant a random promotion to units per each great scientist consumed.

Also, Greece revision:

UA: Alexanderization
During wars, gain influence with all civilizations equal to the amount of great general points you earn and receive great general points from conquering cities. Gain production towards culture and religious buildings per each building you already built.

UU: Diadochi
Replaces great general. May be consumed to assimilate conquered cities. Upon doing this, you may choose between a temporary happiness or culture boost from faith and culture buildings in conquered cities*.

UU: Heitairoi
Replaces horseman. The Heitairoi are more expansive to construct then the horseman, but have the Great generals II and "Companion" promotions, granting it more great general points from combat and +1 strength per each Diadochi ever born. Also has the "Empire's elite" promotion, making it stronger and healing it every turn for 3 turns after passing through an conquered city(may only happen once per city).

*buildings provide more of those yields if their city is connected to the capital or of its training units. The amount of time you gain this boost is based upon the city's population the turn after you assimilated it.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

Yeah... Well, how about something like that?

UA: Military innovation
During unit construction, engineer and scientist specialists generate GP points of the appropriate type equal to the amount of obsolete units from the same class. Cities grant a random promotion to units per each great scientist consumed.

Also, Greece revision:

UA: Alexanderization
During wars, gain influence with all civilizations equal to the amount of great general points you earn and receive great general points from conquering cities. Gain production towards culture and religious buildings per each building you already built.

UU: Diadochi
Replaces great general. May be consumed to assimilate conquered cities. Upon doing this, you may choose between a temporary happiness or culture boost from faith and culture buildings in conquered cities*.

UU: Heitairoi
Replaces horseman. The Heitairoi are more expansive to construct then the horseman, but have the Great generals II and "Companion" promotions, granting it more great general points from combat and +1 strength per each Diadochi ever born. Also has the "Empire's elite" promotion, making it stronger and healing it every turn for 3 turns after passing through an conquered city(may only happen once per city).

*buildings provide more of those yields if their city is connected to the capital or of its training units. The amount of time you gain this boost is based upon the city's population the turn after you assimilated it.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I literally just came up with a new design right before seeing this post. Also, that Alexander design is pretty nice. I love great general bonuses and the ones yours has are really cool.