Design Thread - For Discussion and Review

[Howard Tafty]

It wouldn't be that hard, Abu Dhabi is by far the largest emirate, it takes up like 80% of the UAE. As for the marina, I was worried it was too powerful, but then again the UA is quite weak if you don't make a tonne of money since I was planning on the palace upgrades being expensive to buy and to maintain.

Yeah those things seem pretty expensive as 5 gold maitnence is more than a Courthouse... for a civilization that wants to make you rich it wants to empty your pockets pretty fast too.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

While I'm here I'd really like to hear your opinion on my take of Revolutionary Mexico:

Mexico – Francisco Villa

UA: Gestai dei per Mexicanos- Liberating captured civilians generates culture & provide a free ranged unit. Working Pillaged tiles Generates +1 Food and Culture.

UU: Soldadera: Replaces Rifleman. After spending all their movements, Soldaderas may pillage a tile within a range of two & heal close units.

UU: Zapatista: Replaces Gatling Gun. Ranged unit which has a melee combat strenght as good as its ranged strenght. May melee attack & capture cities. Combat bonus on Pillaged tiles. Ignores terrain costs.

Something odd is that it's actually really difficult to find an actual leader for a Mexican Revolution civilization given how many characters and leaders participated in it! I went with Pancho Villa mostly due to the fact that he's the most famous.

So, Mexican Revolution, a revolution made by and for the campesinate (or not!). I thought a military oriented civilization would be the best for it, so I got inspired by MC's Mexico, the Zapatista anyways, given how description of the period mention a landscape with ruined plantations that dot the scenery, having a civilization based around pillaged tiles and the liberation of the oppressed feeled like something new and potentially fun, so here we are, a completly unorthodox UA.

The Zapatista is mostly a fixed version of MC's one, which has that eternal problem of belonging to a completly different upgrade line making it useless, the unit may very well be completly overpowered, yet, it does interact nicely and there's probably worse offenders out there.

Soldaderas just felt like a complete must be in this civilization and the idea of the unit is meant to complement the rest of the civ to give a really strong industrial era combat strenght, they not only pillage tiles, but heal units! Giving a push that should allow you to quickly gain an advantage when pressing the assault

 

[Tarmont]

I really like the Khwazerm design, the cycle really works man, the only thing I don't like is why the Orchard replaces the castle. It just doesn't make sense to me since it has literally none of the castles attributes - have it replace the mint or something

Wanted it to replace a building from around that era, and logical choices like Garden seemed out of place and Granary was too early. Castle's weird too, don't get me wrong, but lacking a defensive building would thematically fit Khwarezm as it means weaker cities.

or when trading a luxury resource to another major civilisation

I think you can't code this.

reduces the cost of purchasing buildings or palace upgrades

I might be wrong because I never bothered to check, but I'm not sure if you can decrease gold cost at city-level.

About the gold-eating maintenance costs, I like it as it's too easy to generate Gold in civ5 and there's not much to spend it on. Would be fun to see a similar mechanic (To the Palace Upgrades) but where the upgrades may be produced normally and you can upgrade your palace from the start of the game to suit your game style. Which gives me a different idea, where you can replace your Palace with specialized versions of it...

While I'm here I'd really like to hear your opinion on my take of Revolutionary Mexico:

Not much to comment on that Mexico. Solid UA for the early game, where your empire is ripe for barbarian invasions, contrasted by two late game units. The Zapatistas seem too jack-of-all-tradey though, and since it's a melee unit as well, might cause the Soldaderas, unlocked at the same time, to be slightly neglected. (Even though you obviously made them be a supportive unit, it feels somewhat superfluous to have both; unless, of course, the Zapatista was ranged only)

 

[Tarmont]

Lots of ways to tackle this civ... And I picked the most retardedly broken one! Might make a more mild version later, but this one is fun too.

Civilization: The Latins
Leader: Henry

Unique Ability: Frankokratia
Upon settling it, founds a second city near your Capital. Cities are permanent Puppets that you can purchase on, and doing so with Faith grants you Gold. Begins with more Gold.

Unique Unit: Baron (Great General)
Gains one Baron in each city per era, and may expend it to pick the production of a puppet city. The bonus strength awarded by Barons stacks, increasing +5% for each one.

Unique Unit: Legate (Inquisitor)
Yields extra Gold when purchased, and Faith when a Building is produced in a city with a Legate. When garrisoned on a Holy City, yields +6 Faith if it follows your religion.

I think this one needs more oomph though, something to counter-balance all the puppets, but when in doubt add more starting gold.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Can you even spawn a second city upon founding one?!

 

[Tarmont]

Can you even spawn a second city upon founding one?!

That's the easy part son

 

[GPuzzle]

Can you even spawn a second city upon founding one?!

Remembering that it's possible to code City-State acquisition by deleting it and putting a new one in place... that's easy.

 

[Hoop Thrower]

GPuzzcisiocm strikes again.

Alright now, for useful commentary. This may be one of those cases where the civ may end up being, even if balanced, boring given just how little control you have over what it's doing. I recall one of ViceVirtuoso's civs suffered of a similar problem, you're taking so much power out of the player it simply feels like a simulator rather than something you have actual active control over.

 

[GPuzzle]

GPuzzcisiocm strikes again.

Alright now, for useful commentary. This may be one of those cases where the civ may end up being, even if balanced, boring given just how little control you have over what it's doing. I recall one of ViceVirtuoso's civs suffered of a similar problem, you're taking so much power out of the player it simply feels like a simulator rather than something you have actual active control over.

Now I sort of want to play a Civ that's more of a Visual Novel rather than a Civ. All cities are puppets, and you get decisions whenever you discover a technology based on your current situation.

Holy crap that seems extremely long to code but so much fun to play, if only for just having a completely unique style.

 

[TinyLittleBirdy]

GPuzzcisiocm strikes again.

Alright now, for useful commentary. This may be one of those cases where the civ may end up being, even if balanced, boring given just how little control you have over what it's doing. I recall one of ViceVirtuoso's civs suffered of a similar problem, you're taking so much power out of the player it simply feels like a simulator rather than something you have actual active control over.

So what? Civ 5's economy is completly unrealistic. I love games such as Victoria 2 despite having little control over my economy.

 

[SULOMON]

GPuzzcisiocm strikes again.

Alright now, for useful commentary. This may be one of those cases where the civ may end up being, even if balanced, boring given just how little control you have over what it's doing. I recall one of ViceVirtuoso's civs suffered of a similar problem, you're taking so much power out of the player it simply feels like a simulator rather than something you have actual active control over.

The civ doesn't seem boring to me. But I do like puppet cities.

 

[Tarmont]

Civilization: The Magyars
Leader: Árpád
Icon: Something like this:

Spoiler :

except with other colours because this reminds me of polska

Unique Ability: Under the Guidance of Turul
Receives more bonuses¹ the longer you take to found a Capital, and Barbarians adjacent to your initial Settler join you. Builds mounted units faster equal to their starting experience.

Unique Unit: Gyula (Settler/Great General)
Can settle once and is not consumed by it. Mounted units built in their cities start with more XP by how much they travelled and how many enemies they faced. Grants nearby units more movement when outside your lands.
(Cannot build Citadels)

Unique Unit: Lovasíjász (Horseman)
Has a small ranged attack, and yields Gold from kills and when it starts the turn adjacent to an enemy city. Heals when ending the turn on an pillaged tile, more the farther it is from a Magyar city.

¹ Whatever needed to catch up with other players, decreased if on deity: Extra settlers (If you manage to take that long), extra citizens, science, gold, culture, some faith (If you manage to take that long), buildings/production.

Might change the last effect of the Lovasíjász to something about levelling up, if I have a good idea for it.

 

[Natan35]

Tar, while I like the design, that area is stuffed with horse- based civs who have GG\ horseman replacement. Would be more interesting to see a civ from this area with a different focus.

 

[Tarmont]

Tar, while I like the design, that area is stuffed with horse- based civs who have GG\ horseman replacement. Would be more interesting to see a civ from this area with a different focus.

Natan, steppe civs are going to have a mounted focus/mounted units, that's just the way it is. I actually counted and there's only five civs from the region with a Horseman replacement, and six civs with a Great General... And there's 22 steppe civs.

 

[GPuzzle]

The Persian Empire​

Leader: Cyrus the Great

UA: King of the Four Corners of the World: Your first four Cities have a Palace. Units adjacent to one another gain +25% Combat Strength.

UB: Chapar Khanaeh: Caravansary replacement. Cheaper (from 120 Production to 75 Production). +2 Gold. +2 Happiness. If the City is connected to the Capital, it suffers no Occupied Unhappiness.

UU: Satrap: Great General replacement. Units adjacent to a Satrap may move after attacking if they are Ranged units, and gain a Defense bonus versus Ranged Attacks if they are Melee units.

I am surprised no one did Cyrus yet, so I ran with it. Sort of satisfied with the design.

 

[Tarmont]

I am surprised no one did Cyrus yet, so I ran with it. Sort of satisfied with the design.

LITE was (supposedly) making him, but regalman disappeared.

 

[GPuzzle]

Any comments on the design itself?

 

[Tarmont]

Any comments on the design itself?

IMO:

• There's a wide array of units to choose from rather than making yet another GG replacement, so I wouldn't use that. Ideally GG replacements would be either as a last resort, a "too iconic to left out" thing, or maybe if you really want a synergic GG focused design. Besides, Darius already has the Satrap's Court.
• Drop the Gold and Happiness from the Chapar Khanaeh, since the Satrap's Court does almost exactly that. You could still retain that if you changed how those bonuses are gained (Eg: More Gold and Happiness per trade route), but a static increase is pretty generic and might cheapen the design.
• The last bonus of the Chapar Khanaeh is ok, but I usually tend to move away from adding courthouse's effects to a non-courthouse building as much as I can. The only time I've done that was in my Liao design in an unique palace, which is a much more unique building than a Caravansary, so it doesn't feel "wrong" there.
• I like the concept of having more Palaces, and it reminds me of Rise of Nations (Persia has a second capital). I have something like that in the Liao too. Could be done diferently though, like in LITE's design there's "Palaces aren't destroyed upon city capture", which is much more fitting since the Persians expanded through conquest.
• The last part of the UA is generic as well.

 

[Timewalker102]

Here's an idea for the Chapar Khaneh, and it's pretty realistic too: Internal trade routes from this city generate science equal to the food or production sent.

 

[Lilfut]

I posted this in my own design thread, but I'm curious how balanced it would be. I'm also curious how much (if any) lua will be needed, because I'd like to try making this one myself.

The Monster Kingdom
Leader: ASGORE

Based on recent smash indie hit UNDERTALE. As ASGORE is a cowardly king, he relies on deterrence - keeping the enemy from daring to approach, as actual war is potentially devastating to him.

His cities have immensely uncreative names - his capital is Home, and other cities include things like Newtown and Settled. He also has a short list, so he'll start getting into the "New"s quickly if you decide to go for horizontal growth. Our king is not good at names. His spies are named after various typefaces.

UA: Bergentrückung
No maintenance on military units during peacetime. During war, maintenance for all military units doubled. Cannot build post-Industrial Production-increasing buildings (Factories, Hydro Plants, Nuclear Plants, Solar Plants, or Spaceship Factories).

UU: Royal Guard
Replaces Spearman. Weaker than the unit it replaces, but increases Happiness in nearby cities. Have a high upkeep, though that only applies during war due to the UA.

UB: The CORE
Replaces Factory. +200% Production. Counts as a National Wonder, so only one can be built.