Design: Traits

[QES]

My style is sortof passive-aggressive in MP (I do play a Philisophical-Aggressive civ afterall, with Pacifism+Military Civics often on). The games I have played against sureshot she has always been an opponent I have feared to face. And the first game she won by being aggressive.

We should continue to talk about her, as though shes not here, im sure she'll love that.

On real topic: What about a trait dedicated to diplomacy?
Like "Diplomatic"

All trades are consided to be worth 2x value to AIs.
+2 To all diplomatic relations.
Allows building of Diplomat & Embassy (most important aspect of MP play).

Diplomat - Invisable unit that is available with Trade
May enter foreign borders. May Bribe units spend money to dominate a unit - cost depends on total value of unit.
May Build embasy

Embasy: (Built in Foreign Cities), Units of Building nation may heal in city at the "Friendly territory" rate. Halves time for revolt after city is conquered if nation has embasy in city. +2 Trade routes with founding civ.

Or something like that.
-Qes

 

[Sureshot]

oh that one, heh, well eerr was one of the people i no longer trusted, since a few games earlier he tried to attack me with his first warrior on the 6th turn! we stayed at war for over 100 years and we both we're minor powers because of it (neither of us could maintain improvements heh)

so ya, that wasnt being aggressive so much as removing him before he could attack me
and the elves... well, its just plain foolish not to kill elves, they make such excellent slaves

 

[Grey Fox]

We should continue to talk about her, as though shes not here, im sure she'll love that.

On real topic: What about a trait dedicated to diplomacy?
Like "Diplomatic"

All trades are consided to be worth 2x value to AIs.
+2 To all diplomatic relations.
Allows building of Diplomat & Embassy (most important aspect of MP play).

Diplomat - Invisable unit that is available with Trade
May enter foreign borders. May Bribe units spend money to dominate a unit - cost depends on total value of unit.
May Build embasy

Embasy: (Built in Foreign Cities), Units of Building nation may heal in city at the "Friendly territory" rate. Halves time for revolt after city is conquered if nation has embasy in city. +2 Trade routes with founding civ.

Or something like that.
-Qes

She is still here

But on-topic; Cool idea but +2 Trade routes are a bit too much I think for the Embasy.

 

[QES]

She is still here

But on-topic; Cool idea but +2 Trade routes are a bit too much I think for the Embasy.

I supose your right, considering you could put them in EACH city, maybe +1 trade route? That way one of your cities would benefit from an embasy in their city. Their city ALSO would benefit. Win-Win.

A diplomatic trade-monger could be a force to be reconed with. Perhaps if the civs go to war, all embasies of the opposing sides are automatically destroyed?
-Qes

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I remember that, Sureshot. You got the Overlords, and eerr founded Leaves even though he was Cassiel. Lord Vermillion set up a Runes empire on another continent, and I got the highest score with an immaculately efficent Order empire led by Varn Gosam. Too bad we had to end that one.

 

[Lord Vermillion]

heh that was possibly going to be one of the most interesting MP games I have played. Chand and I were very close (score wise, I think you had me by like 100 pts.) and a war between us was inevitable. I had been funding sureshot for at least 50 yrs, and was assembling my landing forces for your shores.....man I wish we coulda finished that one. (heh, I think you were still guarding your cities with warriors at that point? )

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Warriors and a very bored Valin Phanuel. I think the winner would have been whoever managed to convince the other two players, (Sureshot and eerr) to side with him. And if Sureshot had gone one way and eerr the other... yes, it could have been very interesting.

 

[Sureshot]

well i guarrantee i would not have joined eerr on any side, he had not succeeded in taking a single city of mine (i dont think he even kept a single xp from me, as the only time i lost a unit were times when i used up one first to soften an enemy and then finished it off with others) and i had taken one of his cities and was preparing to take the rest.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

So... the ideal strategy would have been to get eerr to attack me?

 

[Sureshot]

naw, then you'd have taken his land, and it was to be mine, those godless heathens needed the firm guidance of the elohim

 

[Sureshot]

possible additions to traits:

Creative:
no upkeep cost on Cultural Values civics

Expansive:
mobility for settlers
half cost settlers

Defender:
half cost walls/castles

Financial:
half cost gambling houses

Industrious:
half cost workers

Ingenuity:
half cost siege workshops

Organized:
free Drill 1 promotion

Raiders:
half cost stables

Spiritual:
disciple spell casters gain xp faster

Summoner:
half cost Ring of warding

Hidden:
half cost hunting lodges

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Good Ideas. Hidden will of course require more than that one bonus by the time it is implemented. I'm still not sure about the Creative or Financial additions either.

 

[avalonnn]

hidden -- would it be possible to have only the outline of the empire show up on the map and to not have the cities appear even if they have the religion you founded? Plus some sort of xp bonus or upgrade to recon units (mobility 1?).

would make hidden little advantage in single player, but a tough AI opponent and tough on MP (I have never played MP civ iv)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Wow, first post in over a year.


Of course, Kael decided to cut the Hidden trait completely in the BtS versions, and won't do any more work on the Vanilla versions.



There has been some talk about traits in other threads lately, so I'll rehash some of my ideas:

The Defensive trait's Homeland promotion should give its bonus based on the percent of the owner's culture on the tile, not a flat bonus whenever in owned territory. The current way makes these leaders better at holding on to recent conquests, when they should really be better at defending and recapturing their own lands.


I'm liking my Scavenger Trait for the Doviello leaders. This Trait gives the Scavenger promotion to meleee units. The promotion uses a xienwolf's modcomp to give yields/commerces when the unit wins a battle, and once I merge in other mods will also let the units steal weapons promotions from their victims.


I'm also liking my decision to cut the Summoner Trait and make the Dimensional sphere promotions boost the duration of a unit's summons. I now have Os-Gabella being Spiritual/Arcane and Tebyrn as Aggressive/Arcane. (I also made aggressive give combat 1 to all the unitcombats and gave summons unit combats, so this is pretty useful)


I'm thinking that Arcane could use a research boost of some sort. Right now I'm about to test letting units with the arcane promotion gain research points from combat (the same way as Scavenger works)


I'm thinking philosophical needs some boost now, since it no longer gives free education civics since Education civics don't exist. Hmm..how would letting Philosophical leaders build Academies the same way that Organized leaders can build Command Post work?

 

[avalonnn]

all very interesting == but I think the academy is too powerful. The combo of culture and science makes it a very significant add. I sometimes drop them in cities I need but am losing a culture war in (i.e. to retain a mithril tile).

possibility for a mod -- allow magic research -- create new spells but they can backfire -- would not recommend putting it into the main FFH build --


aggressive summons is very intersting -- I've never played perpentech but there's a miniscule chance that he'd acquire that ability too.

 

[Uberness]

I think the aggressive and defender trait might give alittle to much of a combat advantage for free, maybe if it was a 10%/5% instead of 20%/15%

Trait: Lucky
10% more random events, +50% good events or lucky leader only events
First strike for melee/archery/recon/horse
+5 gold or +1 happy from gambling houses
2% higher chance of finding resources in mines

Arcane: give +3 research for mages guilds and discount on alchemy labs
Summoner: discount on alchemy labs

 

[El_Duderino]

i think the lucky trait would be perfect for falamar

 

[Milosrdenstvi]

Both Elohim leaders ought to have Spiritual. Come on, they're monks.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

thread necromancy much?

ive alwayse hated defender, tis boring...

 

[thewyrm]

Well, Ethne isn't a monk.

That Lucky trait, I also thought instantly would be great for Falamar. Should replace his expansive trait. Charismatic/Lucky just sounds like a flamboyant pirate.