Design: Units
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
since seige engines dont really start until pretty late (either tier 2 or 3 i forget)Special Warfare Legion
-An elite unit, the Special Warfare Legion is composed of skilled fighters who have broad training with all types of weapons, in order to adjust their tactics to meet the situation.
-The Special Warfare Legion is a National Unit (1 Allowed)
-The Special Warfare Legion begins as a Melee unit with Str 5, Move 1, and Hidden Nationality. However, when it is in an appropriately-equipped city, it has the ability to change it's type, gaining a special promotion as per the type.
-Axes (Requires Training Yard)
(Unit becomes a Melee Unit, and gains +2 Strength)
-Bows (Requires Archery Range)
(Unit becomes an Archery Unit, and gains 1 First Strike and +50% City Defense)
-Horses (Requires Stables)
(Unit becomes a Mounted Unit, and gains +2 Move)
-Knives (Requires Hunting Lodge)
(Unit becomes a Recon Unit, and gains +1 Move and Sentry)
-An elite unit, the Special Warfare Legion is composed of skilled fighters who have broad training with all types of weapons, in order to adjust their tactics to meet the situation.
-The Special Warfare Legion is a National Unit (1 Allowed)
-The Special Warfare Legion begins as a Melee unit with Str 5, Move 1, and Hidden Nationality. However, when it is in an appropriately-equipped city, it has the ability to change it's type, gaining a special promotion as per the type.
-Axes (Requires Training Yard)
(Unit becomes a Melee Unit, and gains +2 Strength)
-Bows (Requires Archery Range)
(Unit becomes an Archery Unit, and gains 1 First Strike and +50% City Defense)
-Horses (Requires Stables)
(Unit becomes a Mounted Unit, and gains +2 Move)
-Knives (Requires Hunting Lodge)
(Unit becomes a Recon Unit, and gains +1 Move and Sentry)
Civkid1991
in shade of poison trees
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2006
- Messages
- 871
guybrush has the ability to sing? Will this have any affect on other units in the future or was that purly for our entertainment?
Silverkiss
NekoChan
Entertainment.
BCalchet
Human, all too human.
Random bunch of secondary civ hero ideas.
Secondary Elohim hero:
Ling Shevan (Disciple Unit)
Requires Way of the Wise, Horse
3 strength, 3 moves, Hidden Nationality
Starts with:
Hero
Monster Hunter:
+200% vs Demon
+200% vs Undead
+200% vs Werewolves
+200% vs Vampires
The Immortal promotion does not work for units killed by this one.
Notes: A mounted Monk who travels the lands, destroying evil and unnatural beings when he finds them.
Not all that useful at first if rushed to, but slaughters unnatural beings when they start appearing.
Secondary Sheaim hero:
The Prophet of Doom (Disciple Unit)
Requires Philosophy
1 strength, 1 moves.
Starts with:
Hero
Command
Doomspeaker:
Use in a city building an armageddon project to add 1000 hammers to the project and 14 base strength to the Prophet. Only usable once, of course.
Notes: Build him early to convert goblins/warriors/etc, but risk his death? Or save him for later - but will the game last that long?
Secondary Khazad "hero":
The Earthshaker (Siege Unit)
Requires Gunpowder, Mithril, Machinery
50 strength, 1 moves.
-90% to all defense.
Can bombard city defenses. (Instantly nullifies defense and destroys a random non-wonder building)
Causes collateral damage (25%)
Secondary Elohim hero:
Ling Shevan (Disciple Unit)
Requires Way of the Wise, Horse
3 strength, 3 moves, Hidden Nationality
Starts with:
Hero
Monster Hunter:
+200% vs Demon
+200% vs Undead
+200% vs Werewolves
+200% vs Vampires
The Immortal promotion does not work for units killed by this one.
Notes: A mounted Monk who travels the lands, destroying evil and unnatural beings when he finds them.
Not all that useful at first if rushed to, but slaughters unnatural beings when they start appearing.
Secondary Sheaim hero:
The Prophet of Doom (Disciple Unit)
Requires Philosophy
1 strength, 1 moves.
Starts with:
Hero
Command
Doomspeaker:
Use in a city building an armageddon project to add 1000 hammers to the project and 14 base strength to the Prophet. Only usable once, of course.
Notes: Build him early to convert goblins/warriors/etc, but risk his death? Or save him for later - but will the game last that long?
Secondary Khazad "hero":
The Earthshaker (Siege Unit)
Requires Gunpowder, Mithril, Machinery
50 strength, 1 moves.
-90% to all defense.
Can bombard city defenses. (Instantly nullifies defense and destroys a random non-wonder building)
Causes collateral damage (25%)
Unser Giftzwerg
UgLe Game Promoter
Moved from the Improvements thread:
The more I think of forts as improvemetns in Civ, the more it strikes me as a square peg in a round hole. I'm not one of you Civ modders, but I gather there is always some programming shortcoming to the improvement.
Also when I think of 'forts' in the scale of the game, I really see that function represented by the Fortify action. That represents the concept of field fortifications, doesn' t it? These things aren't permanent. If no unit occupies them, time erases them from the map.
So how about junking the idea that Worker units can build field fortifications. What say we turn that role over to a new unit designed for the task?
Field Fort
STR 2
Move 1
Build Fort skill
This unit would represent a wagon train full supplies, tools, and workers tasked with building a field fort. They have a small military escort to chase off animals. After construction, those soldiers become the skeleton garrison for the castle.
I'm unsure of which mechanics would or would not be possible, so all I can do is rough out the idea. Perhaps The Team will be able to see potential in the idea.
The Build Fort skill would work line the Mage spell Water Walking. That is, the unit would begin with the ability to 'cast' Build Fort. Until the unit 'casts' this 'spell' (i.e. breaks out the hammers and saws and builds a fort) it's just a wagon train full of supplies. When it 'casts' the 'spell it gains' the
Fort promotion.
+400% terrain defense bonus (like Defender promotion, but stronger).
Zero movement! (No attacks, no moving it once built.) Fort promotions mean non-living units, so haste spells and the like won't work.
+50% up to +200% (TBD) defensive bonus for friendly units in the same tile. (This function is ripped off from the new Guardsman concept Kael mentioned in the Royal Guards discussion in the balance thread.)
Other functions if any TBD.
A Fort unit by itself would defend at a base STR 10 with just it's garrison. If the garrison won a bunch of battles and promoted up to Combat 5, it would fight as STR 12. We don't want the Fort unit itself to be a massive defensive force. We want the Fort + mobile units to be formidable. That's why a very low STR is married to a very high defensive bonus.
When stacked with ohter units, the extra defensive boost would ensure all but the weakest units were killed before the fort itself. This is another reason to give the Fort unit itself a low STR, so units stacked with the fort tend to take damage first in an assault.
I am not sure how such a unit would interact with siege units. I believe Kael said the Guardsman +10% bonus could be reduced by siege weapon bombardment. Would it be possible to use the bombardment function on a unit? (Beats me.)
An alternative to classic bombardment might be to give Siege units a Marksman-like skill. In this case, they would "assassinate" Fort units. If the Fort is killed by the Siege units, this is akin to the walls being blasted down.
The last advantage I see at first glance is such units could be the beneficiaries of new magic spells. An emplaced Fort can grow more powerful over time, as Mages and/or other units arrive in the tile to grant the Fort new promotions.
For example, the Earth spell that builds a wall in a city rarely comes into play. It could be replaced (or enhhanced) with an Earth spell that granted a Fort unit another promotion that, say, adds another 100% to those defense bonuses. Other spell spheres could certainly provide similar Fort upgrade benefits, with a little imagination.
Imagination is your job. My job is to rip-off other people's ideas, in this case Kael's new Guardsman promotion.
The more I think of forts as improvemetns in Civ, the more it strikes me as a square peg in a round hole. I'm not one of you Civ modders, but I gather there is always some programming shortcoming to the improvement.
Also when I think of 'forts' in the scale of the game, I really see that function represented by the Fortify action. That represents the concept of field fortifications, doesn' t it? These things aren't permanent. If no unit occupies them, time erases them from the map.
So how about junking the idea that Worker units can build field fortifications. What say we turn that role over to a new unit designed for the task?
Field Fort
STR 2
Move 1
Build Fort skill
This unit would represent a wagon train full supplies, tools, and workers tasked with building a field fort. They have a small military escort to chase off animals. After construction, those soldiers become the skeleton garrison for the castle.
I'm unsure of which mechanics would or would not be possible, so all I can do is rough out the idea. Perhaps The Team will be able to see potential in the idea.
The Build Fort skill would work line the Mage spell Water Walking. That is, the unit would begin with the ability to 'cast' Build Fort. Until the unit 'casts' this 'spell' (i.e. breaks out the hammers and saws and builds a fort) it's just a wagon train full of supplies. When it 'casts' the 'spell it gains' the
Fort promotion.
+400% terrain defense bonus (like Defender promotion, but stronger).
Zero movement! (No attacks, no moving it once built.) Fort promotions mean non-living units, so haste spells and the like won't work.
+50% up to +200% (TBD) defensive bonus for friendly units in the same tile. (This function is ripped off from the new Guardsman concept Kael mentioned in the Royal Guards discussion in the balance thread.)
Other functions if any TBD.
A Fort unit by itself would defend at a base STR 10 with just it's garrison. If the garrison won a bunch of battles and promoted up to Combat 5, it would fight as STR 12. We don't want the Fort unit itself to be a massive defensive force. We want the Fort + mobile units to be formidable. That's why a very low STR is married to a very high defensive bonus.
When stacked with ohter units, the extra defensive boost would ensure all but the weakest units were killed before the fort itself. This is another reason to give the Fort unit itself a low STR, so units stacked with the fort tend to take damage first in an assault.
I am not sure how such a unit would interact with siege units. I believe Kael said the Guardsman +10% bonus could be reduced by siege weapon bombardment. Would it be possible to use the bombardment function on a unit? (Beats me.)
An alternative to classic bombardment might be to give Siege units a Marksman-like skill. In this case, they would "assassinate" Fort units. If the Fort is killed by the Siege units, this is akin to the walls being blasted down.
The last advantage I see at first glance is such units could be the beneficiaries of new magic spells. An emplaced Fort can grow more powerful over time, as Mages and/or other units arrive in the tile to grant the Fort new promotions.
For example, the Earth spell that builds a wall in a city rarely comes into play. It could be replaced (or enhhanced) with an Earth spell that granted a Fort unit another promotion that, say, adds another 100% to those defense bonuses. Other spell spheres could certainly provide similar Fort upgrade benefits, with a little imagination.
Imagination is your job. My job is to rip-off other people's ideas, in this case Kael's new Guardsman promotion.
Master_Hugian
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
- Messages
- 176
I am not sure whether it has bee suggested or not, but what do you think of a thief which can attempt to steal gold
Thief (Recon unit)
Strength 3
Movement 2
Invisible to Most Units
Can Explore Rival Territory
Can Expose Rival Spies in Nearby Cities
1 First Strike
20% Withdrawel chance
Can attempt to steal gold from other civilizations.
to expand on this I have thought of some other abilities a thief could have
- Can 'join' a city to reduce its commerce (or give it a gold penalty)
- Can initiate a jail break in which the units in the city gets damaged and some people get a bit unhappy, this would require a jail of course.
- Can attempt to steal technologies (or at least some bottles towards the technology)
- Can build a rival thieves guild in the city
Thief (Recon unit)
Strength 3
Movement 2
Invisible to Most Units
Can Explore Rival Territory
Can Expose Rival Spies in Nearby Cities
1 First Strike
20% Withdrawel chance
Can attempt to steal gold from other civilizations.
to expand on this I have thought of some other abilities a thief could have
- Can 'join' a city to reduce its commerce (or give it a gold penalty)
- Can initiate a jail break in which the units in the city gets damaged and some people get a bit unhappy, this would require a jail of course.
- Can attempt to steal technologies (or at least some bottles towards the technology)
- Can build a rival thieves guild in the city
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
I really like this idea, and especially the Tech stealing. i don't think there are enought subtle ways to take rival techs away from themMaster_Hugian said:
How about a whale rider (whale ressource) or shark rider for Octopus Overlord, upgradeable from the drown.
They are +1 move, but minus 2 strength (i.e. move 2 and strength 2) naval units, available with mind stapling and animal husbandry or animal handling. They have the "boarding ability", but with the difference, you get a hidden nationality strength 2 or 3 ghost ship* (but the xx rider is not hidden nationality). The rider can pass ocean. They have the ability to dismount; that means they go back to be the drown with move 1 and stregth 4 and the animal goes back to the ocean (disappeares). They can be upgraded again, but only in a city with a temple...
Alternatively, if there are see animals later in the game (like a sea serpent?), you make a sea serpent rider like goblins get wolf riders.
Something similar for the lanun (dolphin riders?) would be nice, too.
* ghost ships could be strength 2 or 3, move 2. They have no cargo capacity, are hidden nationality, can pass ocean and don't have the ability to change crew to get stronger or faster... Maybe they have a 3 to 5% chance each round that they get barbarians.
They are +1 move, but minus 2 strength (i.e. move 2 and strength 2) naval units, available with mind stapling and animal husbandry or animal handling. They have the "boarding ability", but with the difference, you get a hidden nationality strength 2 or 3 ghost ship* (but the xx rider is not hidden nationality). The rider can pass ocean. They have the ability to dismount; that means they go back to be the drown with move 1 and stregth 4 and the animal goes back to the ocean (disappeares). They can be upgraded again, but only in a city with a temple...
Alternatively, if there are see animals later in the game (like a sea serpent?), you make a sea serpent rider like goblins get wolf riders.
Something similar for the lanun (dolphin riders?) would be nice, too.
* ghost ships could be strength 2 or 3, move 2. They have no cargo capacity, are hidden nationality, can pass ocean and don't have the ability to change crew to get stronger or faster... Maybe they have a 3 to 5% chance each round that they get barbarians.
Another thing: I think gunpowder units are not fantasy. Yeah, I know, Warhammer... but you don't find them often in other fantasy worlds. Maybe if they are race units from dwarfs or gnoms, but not generally.
I also think the late game ships are to realistic. Frigates? Man'o'War's? Thats not fantasy. Especially for Elves and Dwarfs.
Elves do have barques. Dwarfs... how about submarines? Or great and slow war galleons?
I also think the late game ships are to realistic. Frigates? Man'o'War's? Thats not fantasy. Especially for Elves and Dwarfs.
Elves do have barques. Dwarfs... how about submarines? Or great and slow war galleons?
BCalchet
Human, all too human.
RavenXL said:
Since you're apparently the one who decides what is "fantasy" and not, perhaps you should post what criteria something has to live up to in order to earn the right of being classified "fantasy".
BCalchet said:
I don't think so. If FfH is a monarchy, than Kael has to agree with me. If its a oligarchy, than Kael and his crew has to agree with me. And if its a democracy, than you all have to agree (or disagree) with me.
Problem solved.
I will note that you disagree.
BCalchet
Human, all too human.
My point is, it appears you just randomly picked certain things and pointed out that they're "not fantasy" - If there's some sort of logic behind it, I'd love to know how it works.
Kael
Deity
Fantasy definitly means different things to different people. FfH is huge, and there are plenty of aspects that are non-typical. In fact part of our goal is to make a unique world. So we have some gunpowder, we have some characters from other worlds, we have themes borrowed almost directly from lovecraft, mythology or real religions. Some aspects are completly origional, some are directly from another source, but I think everyone would agree that the mix is unique. And there is a consistency to the components that gives it common flavor.
As to the sort of government used here, we settle disputes in the internal forum by battling small animals against each other (currently anything under 7 lbs qualifies). Some thought Loki's robotic penguin was unstoppable (hence the inclusion of the naval units in 0.16) but seZ has been feeding steroids to a german badger ninja that may mean things will be changing soon. Im pretty sure its the same government form that Canada uses.
As to the sort of government used here, we settle disputes in the internal forum by battling small animals against each other (currently anything under 7 lbs qualifies). Some thought Loki's robotic penguin was unstoppable (hence the inclusion of the naval units in 0.16) but seZ has been feeding steroids to a german badger ninja that may mean things will be changing soon. Im pretty sure its the same government form that Canada uses.
Grakl
Chieftain
Gnome
Strength 2
Movement 1
- Lay Traps Ability: essentialy trap versions of offensive spells (fireball, entangle, etc..). Low possibility of being destroyed while laying a trap.
Upgraded Gnomes can lay higher level spell traps while having a higher chance at each level of being detroyed.
Flavor: Gnome abilities or units should be powerful through utilization of technology but either completely unpredicatable or dangerous.
---
I'm a gnome freak and really missing them in FFH2. If not their own civ, maybe a hero or unit? Unless one exists already?
Strength 2
Movement 1
- Lay Traps Ability: essentialy trap versions of offensive spells (fireball, entangle, etc..). Low possibility of being destroyed while laying a trap.
Upgraded Gnomes can lay higher level spell traps while having a higher chance at each level of being detroyed.
Flavor: Gnome abilities or units should be powerful through utilization of technology but either completely unpredicatable or dangerous.
---
I'm a gnome freak and really missing them in FFH2. If not their own civ, maybe a hero or unit? Unless one exists already?
