Design: Units

[talchas]

It should be possible, but as Kael said, it would take a lot of restructuring - everywhere unitcombats are checked, you'd have to change it to check all of the possibilities and figure out exactly how each should work.

 

[Lunargent]

I think the best way is to have some of the units be racial, and some of them not. You simply have to go through them one by one.

The dwarven Stone Golem UU makes no sense as the dwarf subtype, for example. An elven mounted unit would probably work better as a mounted subtype, but the various elven archer types work better as elves.

Another possibility is to look into what makes the anti-racial promotion work in the first place. Is it some enchantment? is it a certain type of training based upon how they fight? Is it possible to change a unit's type based upon what terrain they are in? For example-> Elven Marksman is elvish in the woods, but a regular Marksman anywhere else, because the anti-elvish combat promotion is a study of the specific way the elves use the forest to their advantage and a specific counter to those tecniques.

Another possibility is to get rid of the elven and dwarf slwaying promotions, and make the units all their regular type. Personally, I could never see their logical justification. An elven horseman is going to fight very differently than an elven archer. Consider this- the computer never goes any other path than combat1-combat2-combat3, etc. The difference in combat should come from their various special abilities.

 

[Lunargent]

Bannor(Loki)

Enforcers: Warrior replacements that reduce maintenance in cities they are stationed in. +50% versus barbarians.
Cavalry of Law: Horseman replacement with the same abilities as enforcer. +1 movement on roads.

Malakim(Loki)

Desert Nomad:
+100% on desert. Chariot replacement. Double movement on desert.
Glowing Golem:
Golem type with bonuses against undead, demons, and shades. Requires sun altar but no metals.

Lanun

Worker Boat.
This work boat can build improvements indefinately and enter ocean squares with optics.

Cutter- Late game ship that starts with the march promotion.

Hippus

Lanceman-replaces Knight
+50% versus other mounted units.

Raider. Replaces Horseman
4 moves per turn, strength 4.

Sheaim

Phase Knight- swordsman that starts with dimensional1 (escape), can learn dimensional2

Phase cannon. Bombardment has a chance to remove a defender from the city and send them to a random location or even hell.

Amurites

Firebow-Archer that can also cast fire1- replaces archer, basically a mage with the city garrison promotion available for defense of cities.

Flamebow-upgrade of Firebow that starts with fire 2-replaces longbowman.

Spelleater-swordsman that starts with the magic resistance promotion.

Spell Golem- replaces the iron golem. Golem made of pure magic force that does not need iron. Has a chance of auto-casting anit-magic shell when destroyed.


Balseraphs

Acrobat-replaces scout. Recon unit with a high withdrawal rate.

Trickster-replaces Maceman. High withdrawal rate, can move in enemy lands. Doesn't require iron. has a chance of converting defeated units.

Calabim

Blood bomb-Suicidal unit brainwashed and magically charged by its vampire masters. Can detonate for collateral damage on all units in adjacent squares. Replaces Catapult.

Human Cattle-Replaces Warrior. Has extra health which can be either used to survive or to feed their masters.

Flesh Golem-replaces other golems. Dark experimentation on the discarded corpses of the vampire's victims has created these. They are created using city population plus production.

 

[woodelf]

I think the best way is to have some of the units be racial, and some of them not. You simply have to go through them one by one.

The dwarven Stone Golem UU makes no sense as the dwarf subtype, for example. An elven mounted unit would probably work better as a mounted subtype, but the various elven archer types work better as elves.

Another possibility is to look into what makes the anti-racial promotion work in the first place. Is it some enchantment? is it a certain type of training based upon how they fight? Is it possible to change a unit's type based upon what terrain they are in? For example-> Elven Marksman is elvish in the woods, but a regular Marksman anywhere else, because the anti-elvish combat promotion is a study of the specific way the elves use the forest to their advantage and a specific counter to those tecniques.

Another possibility is to get rid of the elven and dwarf slwaying promotions, and make the units all their regular type. Personally, I could never see their logical justification. An elven horseman is going to fight very differently than an elven archer. Consider this- the computer never goes any other path than combat1-combat2-combat3, etc. The difference in combat should come from their various special abilities.

This man speaks with Wisdom!

 

[Kael]

Bannor(Loki)

Enforcers: Warrior replacements that reduce maintenance in cities they are stationed in. +50% versus barbarians.

Checked in.

Cavalry of Law: Horseman replacement with the same abilities as enforcer. +1 movement on roads.

Not accepted because the Bannor will have access to a wonder (probably open to just them and the Sheaim) that will create an obsidian gat in every city before obsidian gates are available. That will be enough of a boost to their movement capacity.

Malakim(Loki)

Desert Nomad:
+100% on desert. Chariot replacement. Double movement on desert.
Glowing Golem:
Golem type with bonuses against undead, demons, and shades. Requires sun altar but no metals.

I would use this if I could get a model that would look good with it. I would love a model that was just a glow, but thats going to be impossible with just a skin.

Lanun

Worker Boat.
This work boat can build improvements indefinately and enter ocean squares with optics.

Checked in.

Cutter- Late game ship that starts with the march promotion.

Maybe, I havent checked in yet. We are gonna need a fuller naval line so this may end up being used as a general ship for everyone.

Hippus

Lanceman-replaces Knight
+50% versus other mounted units.

Checked in.

Raider. Replaces Horseman
4 moves per turn, strength 4.

Checked in.

Sheaim

Phase Knight- swordsman that starts with dimensional1 (escape), can learn dimensional2

Phase cannon. Bombardment has a chance to remove a defender from the city and send them to a random location or even hell.

Im not so big on the phase abilities. The Sheaims dimensional powers applies more to summoning and channeling. I will probably steal the idea you had below for the Blood Bomb and make it into a Sheaim unit.

Amurites

Firebow-Archer that can also cast fire1- replaces archer, basically a mage with the city garrison promotion available for defense of cities.

Flamebow-upgrade of Firebow that starts with fire 2-replaces longbowman.

Checked in.

Spelleater-swordsman that starts with the magic resistance promotion.

Dropped, just because this would be useless for dain since he already gives all his units magic resistance.

Spell Golem- replaces the iron golem. Golem made of pure magic force that does not need iron. Has a chance of auto-casting anit-magic shell when destroyed.

Hard to make a model for.

Balseraphs

Acrobat-replaces scout. Recon unit with a high withdrawal rate.

Checked in.

Trickster-replaces Maceman. High withdrawal rate, can move in enemy lands. Doesn't require iron. has a chance of converting defeated units.

I dont know about this. Maybe Ill make a national unit that has a chance of making defeated units into lunatics instead.

Calabim

Blood bomb-Suicidal unit brainwashed and magically charged by its vampire masters. Can detonate for collateral damage on all units in adjacent squares. Replaces Catapult.

Im going to steal this idea for a Sheaim unit.

Human Cattle-Replaces Warrior. Has extra health which can be either used to survive or to feed their masters.

I dont like this name, but i do like the concept of having a weak calabim unit that is a better source of food for the vampires (heals them more than normal, etc) so this concept will probably be used.

Flesh Golem-replaces other golems. Dark experimentation on the discarded corpses of the vampire's victims has created these. They are created using city population plus production.

I think we will have a spell that creates a flesh golem out of two living units.

 

[Kael]

This might not be exactly an Unit proposal, but as we can have only three of every kind of national units each of them should be named. At the time the unit is build (or better upgraded) it should get a name based on the building city and an integer.
So the first Shield Wall you upgraded in Athingar would be named Athingards Shieldwall I and so forth. This might not be to complicated to code with phyton but would add some more flavour to the national units and somehow point out that these guys are some kind of special force.

I put this in this afternoon. It works great. I have unitname of cityname so its "Paladin of Teutes". I thought it would work better with the various city name forms.

I didn't realize I had done this against the 1.0 code base so its going to be going out in 1.0.

 

[wilboman]

Suh-weet!

(Civfanatics tells me my entry is too short, so I'm now lengthening it beyond ten characters. I think this should do.)

 

[Lunargent]

You wouldn't need a new model for the spell golem, just a new skin, and maybe an effect like the demons have. Give it a translucent blue skin, with a halo similar to the entangle spell, and your good to go.

Not sure how you'd implement a suicidal callateral damage bombard unit (blood bomb) for the Sheaim. Suicidal doesn't sound like them to me. Maybe they could have a Hemah like unit. Spellcaster that can either cast fireballs or bombard directly. But that sounds more like the Amurites.

It would be cool if all of the Amurites units were replaced with magical equivalents. A Hemah like seige unit instead of a catapult. Magic carpets instead of horses. Spell golems instead of iron golems. The advantage would be that they wouldn't need as diversse of a resource base, only mana nodes. The disadvantage would be slightly lower strength against recon units.

Human Cattle- change name to Thrall.

 

[loki1232]

A bunch of Points:
1. I like the idea of thralls.
2. Spelleater could instead gain HP from defeated spells.
3. Mercurian unit: Lifegiver- Angel unit that ressurects an ally each time it kills an enemy.

 

[Kael]

You wouldn't need a new model for the spell golem, just a new skin, and maybe an effect like the demons have. Give it a translucent blue skin, with a halo similar to the entangle spell, and your good to go.

Not sure how you'd implement a suicidal callateral damage bombard unit (blood bomb) for the Sheaim. Suicidal doesn't sound like them to me. Maybe they could have a Hemah like unit. Spellcaster that can either cast fireballs or bombard directly. But that sounds more like the Amurites.

It would be cool if all of the Amurites units were replaced with magical equivalents. A Hemah like seige unit instead of a catapult. Magic carpets instead of horses. Spell golems instead of iron golems. The advantage would be that they wouldn't need as diversse of a resource base, only mana nodes. The disadvantage would be slightly lower strength against recon units.

Human Cattle- change name to Thrall.

Im going to use the name "Blood Pet" for the Calabim warrior that gives extra life to the vampire that consumes him (consuming a Blood pet may give a vampire a move back and the ability to attack again).

I added a palace for each civ in the buildings thread, using the concepts we talked about when discussing the spells (each civ will start with a magic resource).

How that effects us here is that we can decide if we want a unit to be civ specific or mana specific. In general the mana specific ones will be available to that civ, and anyone who creates a node of that mana type. Just gives us another option to play with.

For example we could make a zombie that explodes for fire damage when killed, but not tie it to a civ. Instead it is an upgrade for a diseased corpse if the fire resource is available (native to clan of embers, other civs will need to do something to earn it).

 

[loki1232]

How that effects us here is that we can decide if we want a unit to be civ specific or mana specific. In general the mana specific ones will be available to that civ, and anyone who creates a node of that mana type. Just gives us another option to play with.

For example we could make a zombie that explodes for fire damage when killed, but not tie it to a civ. Instead it is an upgrade for a diseased corpse if the fire resource is available (native to clan of embers, other civs will need to do something to earn it).

This is perfect.
I think that a lot of the units we've posted under UU's so far would be better like this. The only UU's would be things that were actually specific to that civ.

Here's some:
Balseraph: Magician. Replaces both mage and conjurer and has all of their abilities.

 

[loki1232]

How that effects us here is that we can decide if we want a unit to be civ specific or mana specific. In general the mana specific ones will be available to that civ, and anyone who creates a node of that mana type. Just gives us another option to play with.

For example we could make a zombie that explodes for fire damage when killed, but not tie it to a civ. Instead it is an upgrade for a diseased corpse if the fire resource is available (native to clan of embers, other civs will need to do something to earn it).

This is perfect.
I think that a lot of the units we've posted under UU's so far would be better like this. The only UU's would be things that were actually specific to that civ.

Here's one:
Balseraph: Magician. Replaces both mage and conjurer and has all of their abilities.

 

[Lunargent]

This was brought up in the main thread, and I think we should add the spearman and the swordsman back in.

The spearman would be available pretty early, and provide an upgrade for the warrior for civs that don't have access to copper. It should be available with bronzeworking, and be strength 2, +25%plains strength, +25% versus mounted units, and +50% versus barbarians. That way the axeman is still a big upgrade, but if you don't have copper, you have something a bit more advanced to fall back on.

The Swordsman would be available with the same tech as the Maceman, but be strength 5 (weaker than crusaders), and have no bonuses or penalties, nor would it require iron.

 

[Kael]

This was brought up in the main thread, and I think we should add the spearman and the swordsman back in.

The spearman would be available pretty early, and provide an upgrade for the warrior for civs that don't have access to copper. It should be available with bronzeworking, and be strength 2, +25%plains strength, +25% versus mounted units, and +50% versus barbarians. That way the axeman is still a big upgrade, but if you don't have copper, you have something a bit more advanced to fall back on.

The Swordsman would be available with the same tech as the Maceman, but be strength 5 (weaker than crusaders), and have no bonuses or penalties, nor would it require iron.

In general the archer line already serves this purpose.

 

[Lunargent]

The spearman would give you an alternative to the axeman if you went for bronzeworking instead of hunting and found yourself with no copper, and it would also obsolete the warrior, so you wouldn't see warriors as recommended unit on turn 500. The spearman would be available at teir 2 versus the axeman's 4 or archer's 3, making it a viable early defense against barbarians if you don't want to go far into the metalworking-warfare side of the tech tree just yet. Besides, spears are so easy to make even I could make one, I find it hard to beleive that no one can invent them until pikemen come along.

Otherwise, if you go for bronzeworking, and find yourself without copper, you're stuck with warriors for a long long time.

 

[loki1232]

I personally think that now with our system of separating sphere from civ UU's, i think that the Bannor UU's that reduce maintenance in their cities should instead be available as upgrades to anyone with a law node.

 

[Kael]

I personally think that now with our system of separating sphere from civ UU's, i think that the Bannor UU's that reduce maintenance in their cities should instead be available as upgrades to anyone with a law node.

I could go for that. Let me make some changes.

 

[loki1232]

I could go for that. Let me make some changes.

Here's another example:

Mercurian UU is Hunting Angel. Anti undead that can move quickly but loses battles against archers. Like an assasin but angel type.

A life sphere unit would be a Life Giver. Angel type that heals units around, both friend and foe. Also relativly non-comabatant.

 

[loki1232]

Another example is that vampires are a calabim UU, but anyone with a body sphere node could produce Enraged Swordsmen, an axeman replacement that doesn't require copper and has blitz (but only one move, and loses blitz when upgraded).

 

[Kael]

Here's another example:

Mercurian UU is Hunting Angel. Anti undead that can move quickly but loses battles against archers. Like an assasin but angel type.

A life sphere unit would be a Life Giver. Angel type that heals units around, both friend and foe. Also relativly non-comabatant.

Rabbit is going to try to make a winged swordsman for us. I figure if we can get that we can start making angels like this with a little skinning work.