Design: Wonders

[Kael]

Added the Aquea Sucellus to the list. I was thinking for a while abotu giving infirmaries the ability to automatically remove disease from any units in the city. In the end I thought that would probably weaken disease to much so I made it into a wonder that does it 9and some other health releated stuff).

And I like the fact that the Tomb of Sucellus provides a Life mana and and the Aquae Sucellus requires one. Seems fitting.

 

[loki1232]

What does the bold stuff mean?

 

[Kael]

What does the bold stuff mean?

Just marking the ones Ive gone over as I go through them.

And you'd be happy to hear I added your unit today. It will be in the version that comes out this weekend. He has a cool ability, he runs from every combat. As long as he has an empty tile he can flee into its impossible to kill him in combat.

 

[loki1232]

Could he get some dimensional spells as well? *cough* escape *cough*.

 

[Kael]

Could he get some dimensional spells as well? *cough* escape *cough*.

As it is you have to surround him or corner him to kill him. If I gave him escape you couldn't even kill him then! He can cast Confusion, and Charm Person though.

The Balseraph Gypsy Wagon is in, it can camp in opponents cities and slowly drian their gold and culture away. Loki acts like a Gypsy Wagon but he doesn't have a lower limit to the amount of culture he can steal so he can cause a "culture implosion" and kill small cities without causing war.

 

[loki1232]

Okay. Can he also drain their GP points? What if he could like accumulate GP points and then a GP would be born in loki's birthplace.

 

[Chalid]

Purge of the Unfaithful should be blocked for Barbarians They just built it in one of my games .... The Other Wonders are ok for me when built by barbs

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Hmm, here is an idea for another apocalypse spell, maybe requiring chaos mana, or perhaps metamagic.
Power Surge or perhaps Manifest Magic
All Mana nodes are converted into the highest level summon creature that can be done using that sphere (i.e., elementals, demons, etc.) that would be controled by barbarians.

 

[Kael]

Hmm, here is an idea for another apocalypse spell, maybe requiring chaos mana, or perhaps metamagic.
Power Surge or perhaps Manifest Magic
All Mana nodes are converted into the highest level summon creature that can be done using that sphere (i.e., elementals, demons, etc.) that would be controled by barbarians.

(the following is a stream of consciousness post, if anyone is curious to see how my mind wanders as I consider an idea).

I wouldn't want to destroy the node, but an armageddon spells that dumped a bunch of mana appropriate barbarian units on every mana node would be kinda cool.

Lets see, it rewards players who dont have mana nodes or who have non-summoning mana nodes (body, spirit, mind, enchantment, dimensional). Its a rubber band effect (helps the small player against the big) and therefor winning players will be frustrated trying to block other players from doing this without doing it themselves to get it out of the way.

In concept it acts much like Wrath Unleashed (the Chaos armageddon spell) and for that reason it probably isn't worth making a 2nd armageddon spell.

But I still think there might be something here. I really like the idea of barbarian summons coming through mana nodes. Maybe as a penalty of some other effect. Hmm....

I going to pack this idea away for "Fire". We are looking at implementing an Armageddon counter in that phase and I think this might be a good effect to have start occuring if the Armageddon counter gets high.

 

[loki1232]

Yeah, I agree very much with Kael on this one.

 

[redradish]

I was wondering if you had thought about how the Twisted Spire/Spiral Minaret is a little underpowered in FfH? The effect is the same as in vanilla civ but in vanilla you have temples, monasteries and cathedrals that all get the +1 so up to about +2 and 1/3 gold (on average) bonus per city. However in FfH you can only build temples so it caps at +1 gold per city. As it stands it is very very low on my wonder-building priorities. Have you considered making it +2 gold so its overall effect is more in line with the original? Am I missing something?

redradish

 

[loki1232]

Yeah i agree with redradish on this one.

 

[Chalid]

Or we could add the second religious buildings (Asylum and such) as state religion buildings that give gold with the spire.

 

[AndrewDJ]

A suggestion with Ice Age: Have it require 2 Air Mana to build. When created, starts chilling the map down in stages working from the poles in:

Jungle->Forest->Forest->Ice
Plains->Grass ->Tundra->Ice
Desert->Desert->Tundra->Ice

I don't know how hard this would be, but perhaps tiles within the city radii of civs with fire mana should be immune, or perhaps if you've got access to fire mana, the progression of the ice stops at Tundra in your boundaries.

Finally, being 25% Norwegian by ancestry, I think that 'Fimbulwinter' is a much cooler name for this Armeggedon Spell than 'Ice Age'.

EDIT: Ooh, and maybe as the ice advances, sea level drops? Don't know if that's possible.

 

[loki1232]

Yeah, I've got to agree about Fimbulwinter. I can't believe i suggested ice age and didn't think fimbulwinter. Bad loki!

 

[Kael]

Name changed to Fimbulwinter, thanks AndrewDJ. And the changes as you expressed them (world cooling form the outside in) was what we planned for that wonder.

 

[woodelf]

That sounds cool.

 

[Maniac]

IIRC FfH has the intention to let cities specialize in what kind of units they produce, by letting them all require some building.

I like that, but personally I think those wonders that give a free promotion to all units built in a city detracts from that. Because those wonders basically force you to build all your units in a single city to gain maximal benefit. Not very fun IMHO.

For that reason I'm wondering, would it be possible to let those wonders give a free promotion to all units, no matter in which one of your cities they're built? Or if that's not possible, perhaps something like the Smithy in the Ancient Mediterranean Mod: every unit which enters the city gains a certain promotion. Drawback of that would be though that the AI doesn't know how to handle it.

 

[DMN]

[...] Because those wonders basically force you to build all your units in a single city to gain maximal benefit. Not very fun IMHO.

For that reason I'm wondering, would it be possible to let those wonders give a free promotion to all units, no matter in which one of your cities they're built? Or if that's not possible, perhaps something like the Smithy in the Ancient Mediterranean Mod: every unit which enters the city gains a certain promotion.

I totally agree. If this was possible without destroying game balance, I'd greatly appreciate it. I also find it very annoying that these wonders centralize unit production so much. This only makes my capital an archer-and-melee-production city, whereas my other cities focus on mages, priests, settlers, navy and so on. Another effect of limiting the promotions to one city is that it is useless to have unit-enhancing wonders in multiple cities. So it doesn't only force the player to centralize unit production, but also the production of certain wonders.

 

[Chalid]

but also the production of certain wonders

What actually is not a bad thing as it forces the player to specialize...