Design: World Spells

[snarko]

I believe (and will stand corrected if others know better) that the vanilla research mechanism gives you a small beaker discount for every civ you've met that already has the tech. I assume this remains the same.

No such modifier.

 

[DeaExMachina]

I believe (and will stand corrected if others know better) that the vanilla research mechanism gives you a small beaker discount for every civ you've met that already has the tech. I assume this remains the same.

As for nabbing the lion's share of goody huts, I didn't even think of that! Seems obvious now you've pointed it out.

That was actually a mod, I hated that tech leaking mod xD

 

[Calavente]

it was not a tech leaking..

it was standad in vanilla civ.
you didn't get beakers for the other civs that knew a tech.
the cost is reduced.. that's all.

(thus, backward civ could learn a bit faster than more advanced civs.)

 

[kenken244]

Would it be possible for each civ to have two world spells? It might be interesting if there was one that was moderatly powerfull but wasn't dependent on progress in the game, and the current ones, but you could only cast one of them. That way, you can choose to use the worldspell that does not scale to progress in the game for an early boost, or you can wait a while and hoope that you can use the more powerful one while it still would matter (i.e before you get in doublewin)

 

[princecharles]

You know what would be wicked for Balseraphs as a world spell?
Upon casting it would switch randomly the names of cities on the whole world

If it had to be something useful [who said it did?] then maybe every player would get a negative diplo modifier "-2:you stole our capitol!" with the player who got its capitol name.

Or how about this: all diplo modifiers for all opponents, positive or negative, switch randomly, causing mass chaos as alliances turn on each other and sworn enemies become best pals.

Heck, I'd even like to see a balseraph world spell that harms them more than having the only bland spell...

 

[xienwolf]

Balseraph randomly shifting all world diplomacy would be an awesome mechanic I'd say have it break all Vassal, Defensive Pact, Open Borders and whatnot, but not be able to force new ones. Then reset all Diplo mods to 0 and apply a new modifier "Hey, I saw a Play about you! <Apply Random value from -30 to +30>"


Also, pretty sure that Tech Bleed is still in the game. Saw some information about it on another forum (BUG?) talking about making it actually visible how much you were gaining/losing in the tech race to each person. And it isn't actual beakers applied to resource, it is a reduction in your total cost (or a percentage bonus to beakers you apply... can't recall which).

 

[Vittra]

I'm playing an Arboria map currently, from what I recall the Clan did not cast their world spell until around turn 250.

Also, Acheron is HELL on an arboria map. But at least he got rid of all the jungles, .

 

[kenken244]

I think the problem with the clan spell is the way the ai is set to use it. Basically, the ai won't use it untill there are 60 barbarian units. but considering that at that time, about 50% of barb units are animals and about 25% are skeletons, they only get about 1/8 of the total barbs, and they will only get about 7 or so, and if you factor in the fact that barrows are more common than ruins then they probably get around 3

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

Just played the Kuriorates and surrounded the Dovieloo who were trapped on a penninsula. I founded my city hubs and then cast my spell, and reduced the only Doviello city to being surrounded by my culture. It was awesome, but sort of unbalancing. With one turn I effectivly destroyed the enemy, but now must figure out how to destroy them.....

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I think the problem with the clan spell is the way the ai is set to use it. Basically, the ai won't use it untill there are 60 barbarian units. but considering that at that time, about 50% of barb units are animals and about 25% are skeletons, they only get about 1/8 of the total barbs, and they will only get about 7 or so, and if you factor in the fact that barrows are more common than ruins then they probably get around 3

Ah, that is important... the ai on the spell was set to fire when they thought they could get 20 units, but maybe it accidently takes non-orcs into consideration...

 

[Kael]

Ah, that is important... the ai on the spell was set to fire when they thought they could get 20 units, but maybe it accidently takes non-orcs into consideration...

It does. It waits for the barb player to have 60 units, regardless of what they are. Having it go through and count the amount of units that are orcs would add significant processor cost (where just pulling the unit count is already available).

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.

 

[Bitwise]

It does. It waits for the barb player to have 60 units, regardless of what they are. Having it go through and count the amount of units that are orcs would add significant processor cost (where just pulling the unit count is already available).

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.

I think the guess is pretty far off though, considering that he's casting it on turn 8-20 in most games on normal speed, well before orcs really start spawning.

 

[Calavente]

well, but a human player would still wait to have less animals in the surrounding

 

[Mewtarthio]

Balseraph randomly shifting all world diplomacy would be an awesome mechanic I'd say have it break all Vassal, Defensive Pact, Open Borders and whatnot, but not be able to force new ones. Then reset all Diplo mods to 0 and apply a new modifier "Hey, I saw a Play about you! <Apply Random value from -30 to +30>"

So that Basium and Hyborem could end up best of friends? What a scary thought.

 

[TravellingHat]

I've just witnessed Raging Seas for the first time, and I must admit, the AI used it pretty well.

I'm the Svartalfar, and the Lanun are my long-term friends and fellow Undercouncil members. Following a council vote, we're now all at war with Alexis. However, I happen to be busy launching an amphibious invasion of Sabathiel at the time.

Of course, Hannah (demented sea witch that she is) thinks this is the perfect time to cast Raging Seas. All I can say is: OUCH! Lost most of my garrison in my only captured Bannor city. Luckily most of my invasion force are pretty tough, so survived (albeit half-drowned), and my ships were in port. On the plus side, the entire bannor northern fleet was blockading outside the city. A couple of meteors later, and they're wiped.

Just to add insult to injury, she did this the turn the following Blight (which may or may not have been caused by me putting a population 16 Bannor city to the torch - I deny everything).

 

[Grillick]

Not to mention that its kinda cheating for the AI player to know how many orc units are available (a human player wouldnt know that). So the Ai player just has to estimate and hope for the best, just like a human player would do.

We're not exactly suggesting that you cheat for the AI...Though maybe you should, since they do badly enough, as it is. But is there a way to code it so that they don't cast the spell until they've seen barbarian warriors, at the very least?

 

[westamastaflash]

We're not exactly suggesting that you cheat for the AI...Though maybe you should, since they do badly enough, as it is. But is there a way to code it so that they don't cast the spell until they've seen barbarian warriors, at the very least?

How about just have the AI wait, say, a minimum of 50 turns before casting it on normal speed?

 

[ydejin]

I wasn't sold on For the Horde until I randomed Sheelba in my current game. I got about 20 warriors, 20 goblins, and 2 lizardmen with it (used a few turns before Orthus spawned).

On a semi-related note, I used the "Righteous Cause" spell last game. This isn't a world spell but just a regular spell available to high level Order Priests. But it brings you units at the cost of the caster's life. I've always been reluctant to use it because who wants to sacrifice a high level unit. But I desperately needed more troops so I tried it -- I ended up with 24 Crusaders. Those aren't low level unit they are strength 7 infantry. That saved my bacon and I think that sacrifice was ultimately responsible for my win. Not sure what controls how many units show up -- it would be nice if it was based on the caster's experience level. Civilopedia says something about units coming from your opponent's unhappy citizens so maybe Tebryn was just not treating his citizens well ;-)

As far as World Spells go, I'm a bit worried that some of them can temporarily unhinge your economy. I was playing Doviello, and there World Spell creates a Wolf for each of your units, so it basically doubles the number of units you have. I can imagine if you're already paying high support costs for units that could really send you over the edge.

Anyway, the World Spells were a great idea and a very nice addition to FFH.

 

[Demus]

As far as World Spells go, I'm a bit worried that some of them can temporarily unhinge your economy. I was playing Doviello, and there World Spell creates a Wolf for each of your units, so it basically doubles the number of units you have. I can imagine if you're already paying high support costs for units that could really send you over the edge.

try the Ljos for economy wrecking spells . It'll win you a war easily enough, but at the cost of -1 food on almost every tile in your empire for quite a long time. Not to mention bringing your science to a standstill for 5 turns.

 

[heartofgrigori]

I've read this whole thread. Unfortunately there was only one mention at Basium's Shieety world spell. It truly is horsehockey. I assume Civ's with demons will just wait a couple of turns to heal damaged units. Unless like it was said earlier...unless the mercurians can muster enough units in multiple citys to make the spell worth it. Though the circumstances in which Basium comes in the game, it usually means, he won't have the manpower to stage a multiple invasion of cities to take advantage of his world spell.. BTW Bannor spell still sucks, Balseraph randomly switching city names around the world is freaking awesome.