For America in this series. We've had Washington, Lincoln twice, Both Roosevelts. It's nice to have a leader from when America was just a World Power. But now it's time for a Cold War Superpower America. What better Era than one that introduced Rock N Roll and MAD-Mutual Assured Destruction to the World in the same decade. let's bring an America that gave us Chuck Berry and The Hydrogen Bomb. So let's press those buttons. Let' em flyThat doesn't mean we need 5 UUs and 5 unique infrastructures for them, let alone each civ.
These bonuses would work for a particular Theme Park/Resort located in Orlando and Anaheim.
Nobody would outright replace a Shopping Mall for a Mega-Mart and it be better.
Designing America for Civ7
- Thread starter Lonecat Nekophrodite
- Start date
I'd personally prefer Universal Studios but Disney is more marketable and more likely to buy Firaxis, unfortunately.But could Firaxis afford the licensing cost?I guess it'll be fine once Disney buys Firaxis, too.
I don't hate the idea of having a leader from the 50's or 60's, not that it would be my first choice, but that doesn't mean they should get that many bonuses which is what we are trying to say.
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Babylon 5 was on point twenty years ago when it joked about Disney Planet--except that Disney Planet should be Earth.I'd personally prefer Universal Studios but Disney is more marketable and more likely to buy Firaxis, unfortunately.
I have no love for Ike myself. It was that began full US involvement in Vietnam. The 1956 coup in Iran. And Nixon. But this series has leaders for other Civs at some period of strength. JFK and beyond is just way too polarizing. Truman would be intriguing. But Ike was a WWII General, Allied Commander, and even Supreme Commander at NATO. That's he should have bonuses toward military strength. And his Interstate Highway System should also bring some road and movement bonus. Maybe I went overboard. but then again. Other Civs can be constructed for maximum bonuses. Last game England, France, India, Greece, and China all got multiple leaders. And some crazy culture features. So let's give America it's due. That would make the game funI'd personally prefer Universal Studios but Disney is more marketable and more likely to buy Firaxis, unfortunately.
I don't hate the idea of having a leader from the 50's or 60's, not that it would be my first choice, but that doesn't mean they should get that many bonuses which is what we are trying to say.
I now remember that Firaxis is making a Marvel game, so maybe it's already started?Babylon 5 was on point twenty years ago when it joked about Disney Planet--except that Disney Planet should be Earth.
I mean arguably America also got two leaders, at least two different personas of Teddy who each had their own ability. I did think it was a cool way to split him up and give him different focuses.
While America has been and done many things in its 250 years, it's also one of the youngest civs in the game (especially if we can ditch you, Australia
); I'd put America in the lower half on a list of civs to receive a second leader. I accept America's presence as a marketing gimmick and to a lesser extent based on historic merit, but there are limits to how much I'm willing to indulge the marketing department (and things like Australia, multiple American leaders, and including every third-rate hypernationalist 20th century nation-state with an emerging gaming demographic cross that line).
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
I will try my hand at this. I really like America's Civ 6's design, as an aside. Roosevelt turned out to be such a clever leader choice in retrospect. America's Civilization Ability, while good, always felt very bland to me (especially the original Founding Fathers - remember "100% faster Government legacy bonuses"? Possibly the most whatever bonus ever in a Civ game) but both Teddy's add a lot flavour into a design that often gets carried by its endgame gimmicks.
I still feel America suffers from Firaxis being an American company. It always seems like Americans have massive blind spot about how non-Americans see them, which leads to their designs feeling flavourless. The things America is the most known for (not including the unflattering things) are (1) that they're an Immigrant nation (I don't think i've ever met an American who didn't also identify as non-American in some fashion) (2) their commercialism, noted in their penchant for colonialism and capitalism. These things should be paramount in an accurate America design and they're completely absent.
On that note,
Thomas Jefferson leads America in Sid Meier's Civilization VII
He was the third man to take up the office of President of the United States. A scholar as well as a politician, Jefferson was the one to write down America's Declaration of Independence. Under his presidency, America solidified their trade position in the world, and expanded westward to new horizons.
Jefferson's Leader Ability is Manifest Destiny. Tiles of Charming Appeal or higher are automatically claimed for America if they're within two tiles of an American City (3 after Colonialism). The Culture and Gold cost for acquiring or purchasing tiles is reduced (by 5%) for each adjacent tile already owned by America. Every District completed in an American city provides it with +1 extra Housing.
The Estate is America's unique tile improvement. This Economic tile improvement unlocks as Exploration and has a base yield of +1 Amenity, +2 Housing and +3 Gold, and improves the Appeal of adjacent tiles by +1. It generates +2 extra Gold for each luxury resource adjacent to it. Pastures, Plantations and Camps adjacent to an Estate also have their production increased (+1, improved to +2 after Replaceable Parts). After Flight, Estates generate Tourism based on their Gold Output. Estates can only be placed adjacent to Luxury resources and only one Estate maybe be build for each completed district in a city, including the City Centre.
Housing and Amenities also play a role in America's unique ability, The American Dream. American Cities exert extra loyalty pressure (+1) for each spare amenity. The influence radius for American cities is extended by +3 tiles for Happy cities, or +5 for Ecstatic ones. America cannot flip cities that they didn't found, but instead, will inspire citizens from nearby unhappy cities to immigrate to their cities, if they have spare housing.
Finally, the Marine is America's unique Unit. This Infantry replacement starts with the Amphibious promotion and pays no movement cost when embarking, disembarking or crossing a river.
As America you are encouraged to expand quickly into high appeal prime real estate. Use your quick border expansion to hook up luxuries quickly, to shore up your amenities and tempt nearby foreign citizens to immigrate to your lands. The Estate will help you develop a strong economy in the mid-game and can set the stage for a late-game Culture victory if caught unawares. America can also attempt to go for a late-game Domination push, backed by their hardy Marines. America is a versatile civilization that can go for any victory type, as long as you are willing to work for it.
Will you lead a land of free men to greatness? How will you lead America in Sid Meier's Civilization VII?
Sigil & Cities
Sigil
The sigil is of course the American Eagle, silver on navy blue. For the alt colours I went for the inverse, and found that the Grey background fits really well with that hue of Blue.
City List
Capital: Washington D.C.
Other Cities: New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, Boston, San Francisco, Atlanta, Seattle, Baltimore, Miami, Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Charleston, Buffalo, Sacramento, Dallas, Portland, Denver, San Antonio, Savannah, Austin, Las Vegas, Nashville, San Diego, Charlotte, Phoenix, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Providence, Jacksonville, San José, Anchorage, Kansas City, Honolulu, Springfield, Pittsburgh, Newark, Richmond, Orlando, Boise, Reno, Boulder, Annapolis & Sparks.
This design approximates my vision pretty well - The main difference is that in Lord Lakely's Civ VII, America are actually specialized in Diplomatic Victory and many of their bonuses are geared earning more support in the World Leader election as opposed to wanton expansion. They also have a different UU (the Sherman Tank) and the Estate, rather than being a stand-alone UI is one of the three replacements for the Hamlet/Village/Town (remember those from Civ 4?). Sadly Diplomatic Victory is a waking war crime in Civ 6, so I took all of that delectable political goo out for a more crisp and streamlined design: Amenities, loyalty pressure, tile claiming, a bit of eco, a bit of industry, straight-forward and simple, just like the Civ it represents
I still feel America suffers from Firaxis being an American company. It always seems like Americans have massive blind spot about how non-Americans see them, which leads to their designs feeling flavourless. The things America is the most known for (not including the unflattering things) are (1) that they're an Immigrant nation (I don't think i've ever met an American who didn't also identify as non-American in some fashion) (2) their commercialism, noted in their penchant for colonialism and capitalism. These things should be paramount in an accurate America design and they're completely absent.
On that note,
Thomas Jefferson leads America in Sid Meier's Civilization VII
He was the third man to take up the office of President of the United States. A scholar as well as a politician, Jefferson was the one to write down America's Declaration of Independence. Under his presidency, America solidified their trade position in the world, and expanded westward to new horizons.
Jefferson's Leader Ability is Manifest Destiny. Tiles of Charming Appeal or higher are automatically claimed for America if they're within two tiles of an American City (3 after Colonialism). The Culture and Gold cost for acquiring or purchasing tiles is reduced (by 5%) for each adjacent tile already owned by America. Every District completed in an American city provides it with +1 extra Housing.
The Estate is America's unique tile improvement. This Economic tile improvement unlocks as Exploration and has a base yield of +1 Amenity, +2 Housing and +3 Gold, and improves the Appeal of adjacent tiles by +1. It generates +2 extra Gold for each luxury resource adjacent to it. Pastures, Plantations and Camps adjacent to an Estate also have their production increased (+1, improved to +2 after Replaceable Parts). After Flight, Estates generate Tourism based on their Gold Output. Estates can only be placed adjacent to Luxury resources and only one Estate maybe be build for each completed district in a city, including the City Centre.
Housing and Amenities also play a role in America's unique ability, The American Dream. American Cities exert extra loyalty pressure (+1) for each spare amenity. The influence radius for American cities is extended by +3 tiles for Happy cities, or +5 for Ecstatic ones. America cannot flip cities that they didn't found, but instead, will inspire citizens from nearby unhappy cities to immigrate to their cities, if they have spare housing.
Finally, the Marine is America's unique Unit. This Infantry replacement starts with the Amphibious promotion and pays no movement cost when embarking, disembarking or crossing a river.
As America you are encouraged to expand quickly into high appeal prime real estate. Use your quick border expansion to hook up luxuries quickly, to shore up your amenities and tempt nearby foreign citizens to immigrate to your lands. The Estate will help you develop a strong economy in the mid-game and can set the stage for a late-game Culture victory if caught unawares. America can also attempt to go for a late-game Domination push, backed by their hardy Marines. America is a versatile civilization that can go for any victory type, as long as you are willing to work for it.
Will you lead a land of free men to greatness? How will you lead America in Sid Meier's Civilization VII?
Sigil & Cities
Sigil
The sigil is of course the American Eagle, silver on navy blue. For the alt colours I went for the inverse, and found that the Grey background fits really well with that hue of Blue.
City List
Capital: Washington D.C.
Other Cities: New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, Boston, San Francisco, Atlanta, Seattle, Baltimore, Miami, Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Charleston, Buffalo, Sacramento, Dallas, Portland, Denver, San Antonio, Savannah, Austin, Las Vegas, Nashville, San Diego, Charlotte, Phoenix, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Providence, Jacksonville, San José, Anchorage, Kansas City, Honolulu, Springfield, Pittsburgh, Newark, Richmond, Orlando, Boise, Reno, Boulder, Annapolis & Sparks.
This design approximates my vision pretty well - The main difference is that in Lord Lakely's Civ VII, America are actually specialized in Diplomatic Victory and many of their bonuses are geared earning more support in the World Leader election as opposed to wanton expansion. They also have a different UU (the Sherman Tank) and the Estate, rather than being a stand-alone UI is one of the three replacements for the Hamlet/Village/Town (remember those from Civ 4?). Sadly Diplomatic Victory is a waking war crime in Civ 6, so I took all of that delectable political goo out for a more crisp and streamlined design: Amenities, loyalty pressure, tile claiming, a bit of eco, a bit of industry, straight-forward and simple, just like the Civ it represents
Americans claiming to be X, often based on the sparsest of family hearsay, is definitely a thing (Irish comedians Foil Arms & Hog are frequently ribbing Bostonians for claiming to be Irish), but "just American" is also very much a thing. (Your point about immigration isn't wrong, just quibbling with the details because that's what I do.
)The real legacy of the Protestant Reformation...
In America's current political climate this will never, ever make it off the ground. I also personally have a problem with this because Estates are specifically associated with the South, but American identity was forged in New England. (That's not to say that Southern, Mid Atlantic, and Appalachian identities aren't an important part of America's cultural heritage--but New Englanders were the first to realize that they were American, and Americanism spread from New England to the other states filtered through New England culture. If we're going with a regional unique, it really ought to be a New England unique.)
I will try my hand at this. I really like America's Civ 6's design, as an aside. Roosevelt turned out to be such a clever leader choice in retrospect. America's Civilization Ability, while good, always felt very bland to me (especially the original Founding Fathers - remember "100% faster Government legacy bonuses"? Possibly the most whatever bonus ever in a Civ game) but both Teddy's add a lot flavour into a design that often gets carried by its endgame gimmicks.
I still feel America suffers from Firaxis being an American company. It always seems like Americans have massive blind spot about how non-Americans see them, which leads to their designs feeling flavourless. The things America is the most known for (not including the unflattering things) are (1) that they're an Immigrant nation (I don't think i've ever met an American who didn't also identify as non-American in some fashion) (2) their commercialism, noted in their penchant for colonialism and capitalism. These things should be paramount in an accurate America design and they're completely absent.
On that note,
Thomas Jefferson leads America in Sid Meier's Civilization VII
He was the third man to take up the office of President of the United States. A scholar as well as a politician, Jefferson was the one to write down America's Declaration of Independence. Under his presidency, America solidified their trade position in the world, and expanded westward to new horizons.
Jefferson's Leader Ability is Manifest Destiny. Tiles of Charming Appeal or higher are automatically claimed for America if they're within two tiles of an American City (3 after Colonialism). The Culture and Gold cost for acquiring or purchasing tiles is reduced (by 5%) for each adjacent tile already owned by America. Every District completed in an American city provides it with +1 extra Housing.
The Estate is America's unique tile improvement. This Economic tile improvement unlocks as Exploration and has a base yield of +1 Amenity, +2 Housing and +3 Gold, and improves the Appeal of adjacent tiles by +1. It generates +2 extra Gold for each luxury resource adjacent to it. Pastures, Plantations and Camps adjacent to an Estate also have their production increased (+1, improved to +2 after Replaceable Parts). After Flight, Estates generate Tourism based on their Gold Output. Estates can only be placed adjacent to Luxury resources and only one Estate maybe be build for each completed district in a city, including the City Centre.
Housing and Amenities also play a role in America's unique ability, The American Dream. American Cities exert extra loyalty pressure (+1) for each spare amenity. The influence radius for American cities is extended by +3 tiles for Happy cities, or +5 for Ecstatic ones. America cannot flip cities that they didn't found, but instead, will inspire citizens from nearby unhappy cities to immigrate to their cities, if they have spare housing.
Finally, the Marine is America's unique Unit. This Infantry replacement starts with the Amphibious promotion and pays no movement cost when embarking, disembarking or crossing a river.
As America you are encouraged to expand quickly into high appeal prime real estate. Use your quick border expansion to hook up luxuries quickly, to shore up your amenities and tempt nearby foreign citizens to immigrate to your lands. The Estate will help you develop a strong economy in the mid-game and can set the stage for a late-game Culture victory if caught unawares. America can also attempt to go for a late-game Domination push, backed by their hardy Marines. America is a versatile civilization that can go for any victory type, as long as you are willing to work for it.
Will you lead a land of free men to greatness? How will you lead America in Sid Meier's Civilization VII?
Sigil & Cities
Sigil
The sigil is of course the American Eagle, silver on navy blue. For the alt colours I went for the inverse, and found that the Grey background fits really well with that hue of Blue.
City List
Capital: Washington D.C.
Other Cities: New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, Houston, Boston, San Francisco, Atlanta, Seattle, Baltimore, Miami, Detroit, New Orleans, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Charleston, Buffalo, Sacramento, Dallas, Portland, Denver, San Antonio, Savannah, Austin, Las Vegas, Nashville, San Diego, Charlotte, Phoenix, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Memphis, Salt Lake City, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Providence, Jacksonville, San José, Anchorage, Kansas City, Honolulu, Springfield, Pittsburgh, Newark, Richmond, Orlando, Boise, Reno, Boulder, Annapolis & Sparks.
This design approximates my vision pretty well - The main difference is that in Lord Lakely's Civ VII, America are actually specialized in Diplomatic Victory and many of their bonuses are geared earning more support in the World Leader election as opposed to wanton expansion. They also have a different UU (the Sherman Tank) and the Estate, rather than being a stand-alone UI is one of the three replacements for the Hamlet/Village/Town (remember those from Civ 4?). Sadly Diplomatic Victory is a waking war crime in Civ 6, so I took all of that delectable political goo out for a more crisp and streamlined design: Amenities, loyalty pressure, tile claiming, a bit of eco, a bit of industry, straight-forward and simple, just like the Civ it represents
This series already fielded a Founding Era leader with Washington in Civ-V. if we do return to that Era, John Adams, who didn't own a slave, might be more acceptable. Adams was the 1st to live in the White House. Jefferson has some positive points. But being a slave owner would hang over his head. I would even prefer Reagan over a slaveowner.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Okay, let's take a hack at this:
The Section is America's unique tile improvement. This Economic tile improvement unlocks at Exploration and has a base yield of +2 Food, +1 Housing and +2 Gold, and improves the Appeal of adjacent tiles by +1. It generates +2 extra Gold for each luxury resource adjacent to it. Pastures, Plantations and Camps adjacent to a Section also have their production increased (+1, improved to +2 after Replaceable Parts). After Flight, Sections generate Housing based on their Gold Output. Sections can only be placed adjacent to Luxury or on Bonus resources (in which case they also "improve" the Bonus Resource) and only two Sections maybe be build for each completed district in a city, including the City Centre.
A Section was the basic unit of land survey in new lands being opened for settlement from the Old Northwest (1790s) on. It was 640 acres, or, later, 4 160-acre Homesteads. That means, once Sections were surveyed in a territory, they filled up with homesteaders, settlers, town sites, and exploited everything around them at a frenzied pace, by the early 20th century pretty much filling every bit of available land and, if near cities once the paved highways began to appear in the 1930s, also providing 'seeds' for suburban towns and settlement (the Housing Bonus after Flight)
Very nice. I was also thinking about @Lord Lakely 's idea of bringing back the Hamlet/Village/Town, and while I dislike the Estate I think America's a prime candidate for a different HVT replacer: the Township. TBH functionally it'd probably look identical to what you proposed for the Section. Either would work well.
While John Adams is my top choice to lead America and his early advocacy of abolition decades before it became a real movement in the United States is certainly part of that, I don't think we should exclude presidents for no other reason than that they owned slaves. Most of the Founding Fathers, including hypothetically Jefferson (I say "hypothetically" because he spoke about the evils of slavery but did nothing to relieve them--unlike Washington, who manumitted his slaves), believed that slavery and republican government was incompatible; even many Southerners had the decency to be embarrassed by the incongruity (unlike their Confederate descendants). The Founding Fathers believed the institution was naturally dying out, and they were probably right--they couldn't have foreseen the invention of the cotton gin and its enormous consequences for slavery and the South. This goes back to what I was saying about backwards-projecting morality.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
I'd probably rename Manifest Destiny, as the term was unknown in Jefferson's time(coined in the 1840s), and even the mentality it describes was still in infancy; not to mention potential sensitivity involving Native Americans.
A more Jefferson-appropriate term for a lamd acquisition ability would be Louisiana Purchase.
A more Jefferson-appropriate term for a lamd acquisition ability would be Louisiana Purchase.
Lord Lakely
Idea Fountain
A name is little more than a couple of letters. I have it written down as "Mansion => Estate => County" in my notes, but if its renamed to "Homestead => Section => Township", that would be fine with me :shrug:
Same for Manifest Destiny. If a name is "too controversial" by all means change it. Mechanics are more important than lables (as per @Evie's post above so I don't have to quote it).
and those will OCD just have to deal with only three of the four Mount Rushmore presidents being repped in a Civ game? Is there no limit to your cruelty??
Never heard of the term "Manifest Destiny" being controversial. But now a days what isn't?
That being said I agree that Louisiana Purchase would be the better choice considering he was involved in it, and Manifest Destiny idea wasn't until later.
Well I believe that will happen before we get the 3 main Axis Power leaders.and those will OCD just have to deal with only three of the four Mount Rushmore presidents being repped in a Civ game? Is there no limit to your cruelty??
The concept is certainly controversial: Americans basically decided the entire continent belonged to them without consulting anyone else who might have a claim.Never heard of the term "Manifest Destiny" being controversial. But now a days what isn't?
The English were the only ones who didn't object, probably because they were used to making extravagant claims of ownership. At any rate, I have no issue with using the term in its historical context. I will cock an eyebrow at the very small number of American Exceptionalists who think the term is still fine to use. Because most civilized nations agree that they're evil or because two out of the three were woefully incompetent?Well I believe that will happen before we get the 3 main Axis Power leaders.
Using the term in a historical context, and I guess the term used in the game as a historical context, is what I meant.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Manifest Destiny, much like its overseas cousin the Civilizing Mission, is all about the idea of bringing civilization (ie, Euro-Christian, and later especially WASP, culture) to perceived savage lands, by forcibly assimilating, exploiting or displacing the people living there, perceived as "uncivilized". This is a mentality that's disturbingly echoed by later white supremacist thinking, so a little touchy at best, especially for the people then perceived as uncilivized and their descendants.
That's not to say the terms should be banned. They can and should be mentioned when pertinent, but just perhaps best to use other options when they're available.
That's not to say the terms should be banned. They can and should be mentioned when pertinent, but just perhaps best to use other options when they're available.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Because most civilized nations agree that they're evil or because two out of the three were woefully incompetent?
Make that three out of three: the one thing all three Axis leaders succeeded in doing was in utterly destroying their own States: at the end of the war, Germany, Italy and Japan no longer existed except as occupied territories. It was the first time in a thousand years or more that there were no Italian, German or Japanese political entities on the planet. And note that in every case, they started the war(s) that destroyed their own states: nobody made them do it, no matter what they claimed as "provocation" at the time.
Regardless of their degree of 'evilness', which is a relative term when applied in comparison to other historical Leaders like Attila, Chingis Khan, Julius Caesar, etc. their sheer incompetence rules against them as Leaders in Civ:
Leader Attribute: Will always declare war on the largest and most advanced Civilization on the planet and then refuse to make peace under any circumstances.
I can't see a lot of gamers wanting to play that . . .
Fair. Tōjō just seemed to manage the war itself with more competence than Hitler or Mussolini. On the other hand, he had the advantage that China was busy tearing itself to pieces when he invaded and couldn't pull itself back together even in the face of a clear and imminent threat, that he already controlled the next greatest power in the region in Korea, and that he had a clear technological superiority over everyone else so my assessment may be too charitable.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
All perfect strategic considerations IF Japan confined itself to fighting other Asiatic Powers. It didn't, and simultaneously picking a fight with both the British Empire and the USA was simply suicidal - especially when at virtually the same time you also decide not attack the USSR, and thus leave your most useful ally (Germany) with most of its forces trapped inside the USSR a war that it does not have the resources to win or even end without disaster.
Once it made those three decisions, Japan was like the proverbial Toad in a Tree: whichever way it jumped, it was going down . . .
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