details

[SadoMacho]

a thread to post small ditails in that would make the gamepaly a bit nicer.

I would like to see these things changes :

1) Harbor with sailing
Now it takes untill compas to build harbor. Carthage can not often build it's UB, as it isn't around anymore when compas it discovered. Harbor have been constructed long before the compas was discoverd. Maybe switching the effects and tech of lighthouse and harbor could be nice to?

2) Walls not required for castle building.
Often cities were build around castles, so first walls and then castles is not realistic.

3) Walls : +1 unhealth.
a walled city is often a dirty city.

4) Knights with feudalism.
Feudalism was developed to get an elite warrior with horses and money for armour and time for training. Maybe a kningt with strenght 8 and with guilds +2 strenght.

EDIT:
5) +1 hammer for minning with steam power.
With the development of steam power water from mines could be pumped out faster and better and mines could be made deeper and production went faster. This was the fist step in the industrial revolution.

 

[Phallus]

a walled city is often a dirty city.

An unclean city wouldn't be any cleaner without walls. Many of the worst areas in London (pre-fire) were located outside the city walls, and if we were going to make cities slightly less healthy, it would make more sense to do it with harbours.

EDIT:
5) +1 hammer for minning with steam power.
With the development of steam power water from mines could be pumped out faster and better and mines could be made deeper and production went faster. This was the fist step in the industrial revolution.

I like this as long as it doesn't speed up the game.

(As for your other points, I agree about Feudalism but I don't know enough to comment on the harbour/compass thing.)

 

[Aeon221]

An unclean city wouldn't be any cleaner without walls. Many of the worst areas in London (pre-fire) were located outside the city walls, and if we were going to make cities slightly less healthy, it would make more sense to do it with harbours.

IIRC, this had more to do with laws about where abattoirs could be built than general hygienic procedures.

2 is a post hoc ergo propter hoc. Castles were usually sited on places with strategic utility, often as a result of trade routes. A city may very well have formed there irrespective of whether a castle was located there. Despite the fallacy, I support the idea.

Also, I'd like to suggest that we take a leaf out of FfH's book and make castles required for knights.

As far as I can tell, Firaxis put harbors later because they wanted to reinforce the idea that technology is invariably good and always provides benefits.

EDIT: I like the idea that Feudalism also be required for knights. I still think the bastards are overpowered, and infantry made up the bulk of medieval armies anyway.

 

[SadoMacho]

An other small detail:
Cuzco should be renamed Qusqu, that's the Incan way.

Than something I asked before

With Ecology, could the Ivory and Whales get some extra gold for eco-tourism
+1 gold with whales and +2 gold for Ivory?

 

[Rhye]

Qusqu looks like a different translitteration. The sound is the same, but it's just written differently. A kind of Chinese and Russian romanization problems.
Changing to Qusqu would mean changing all the other names too to the new convention

 

[Mercenary82]

Feudalism comes to early to allow knights, I often see Carthage, or Persia get this tech from Oracle. Perhaps adding code of laws as a prereq would balance this.

 

[fearuin]

Qusqu looks like a different translitteration. The sound is the same, but it's just written differently. A kind of Chinese and Russian romanization problems.
Changing to Qusqu would mean changing all the other names too to the new convention

I'm sorry to reply you, Rhye, but here you're wrong. Maybe Southamerican people pronounce the "z" from Cuzco like and "s", but as long as the Royal Spanish Academy of Language continues to dictate the grammatic and pronounce rules for Spanish, the "z" from Cuzco will continue to be pronounced as the "th" from "thunder", or "thousand". And the final "o" it is what it seems. An "o" it is always an "o", not an "u". Spanish is quite simple, in most cases: what it is writen, it is pronounced.

Sorry for the quick Spanish course, but sure that if you hear an stranger pronouncing bad a city name in your language, you'll either laugh at him, or get angry. I don't like to laugh at people.

Going back to topic, I have some ideas:
-Knights with Feudalism: historically talking, not exactly. Game playing? No, please! Early medieval age was the age of light cavalry (in CIV, mounted archers), swordmen, and maceman. Heavy knights came in low middle ages. To the solution of 8 with Feudalism, and +2 with Guilds, if able, I'll agree.
-Harbors with sail: don't know a thing about Carthage, since I play Vanilla. But it seems to me that the harbor from CIV it's not the little docking bays of classical era, but the big administrative and commercial institutions of the medieval age. I will check this on the Civilopedia. Usually the answer to "change this building from this tech to that tech" question lies on here.
-Walls not required for castle: OK. My own city built its castle before the walls, because from a certain hill you can dominate the whole bay. With catapults, the local militia was able to sink any enemy ship (usually viking)trying to invade. And no enemy was expected from inner lands, until Almanzor's rising to power.
-Walls, +1 : agreed, but for different reason. Walls constrained city growing. I will even be more agree to have the walls being automatically removed for any city growing over 12, in a CIII way.
-With Ecology , money for whales and Ivory: hmm... reasonable, but I'll add it to the Enviromentalism civic, which I'm in favour to replace it for Welfare State unless it is empowered. That way Enviromentalism can even reach to be better than have nothing.

 

[Guest01]

5) +1 hammer for minning with steam power.
With the development of steam power water from mines could be pumped out faster and better and mines could be made deeper and production went faster. This was the fist step in the industrial revolution.

You reverted real history.

Tainter: "Wilkinson (1973) has shown that major jumps in population, at around A.D. 1300, 1600, and in the late eighteenth century, each led to intensification in agriculture and industry (see also North and Thomas (1973]). As the land in the late Middle Ages was increasingly deforested to provide fuel and agricultural space for a growing population, basic heating, cooking, and manufacturing needs could no longer be met by burning wood. A shift to reliance on coal began, gradually and with apparent reluctance. Coal was definitely a fuel source of secondary desirability, being more costly to obtain and distribute than wood, as well as being dirty and polluting. Coal was more restricted in its spatial distribution than wood, so that a whole new, costly distribution system had to be developed. Mining of coal from the ground was more costly than obtaining a quantity of wood equivalent in heating value, and became even more costly as the most accessible reserves of this fuel were depleted. Mines had to be sunk ever deeper, until groundwater flooding became a serious problem. Ultimately the steam engine was developed, and employed to pump water out of mines."

 

[Blasphemous]

fearuin, walls should stay. Jerusalem still has its walls, almost fully intact, around the Old City, which is just a relatively small area in the modern metropolitan. (Small by international standards, but the most populous city in Israel nonetheless.) It even makes sense for walls to still give a defensive bonus in large cities before gunpowder, because they still give you an area of the city that's more defensible, even once you've built outside the walls. But I agree with +1 or even +2 for walls, it makes sense. Maybe this should be cancelled with the discovery of Medicine or some other technology, to show that once a certain level of technology is reached the walls simply become irrelevant to growth.

 

[McA123]

It already would be cancelled by the recycling plant (I think?). Eliminates all unhealthiness caused by buildings.

 

[Blasphemous]

But the relevance of walls dissipated far before Recycling became such a big hit, and the same is true of places where Recycling still isn't all that hot.

 

[Rhye]

I'm sorry to reply you, Rhye, but here you're wrong. Maybe Southamerican people pronounce the "z" from Cuzco like and "s", but as long as the Royal Spanish Academy of Language continues to dictate the grammatic and pronounce rules for Spanish, the "z" from Cuzco will continue to be pronounced as the "th" from "thunder", or "thousand". And the final "o" it is what it seems. An "o" it is always an "o", not an "u". Spanish is quite simple, in most cases: what it is writen, it is pronounced.

Sorry for the quick Spanish course, but sure that if you hear an stranger pronouncing bad a city name in your language, you'll either laugh at him, or get angry. I don't like to laugh at people.

well okay but I need from you to have the correct translitteration of all the cities in the city names map and in the random names list

 

[Polietileno]

I don´t have Civ 4 (i f somebody want to donate 150$ to upgrade mi pc, be my guest) but I can give you the quechuan translation of the Incan cities if somebody provide me with the list. And also, the brbarian city in northen Peru should be name Chan-Chan no doubt.

Edit: Also, Cuzco is name in quechua Qosqo, there is only 3 vocals in that lenguage: A, E-I and O-U

 

[SilverKnight]

1) Harbor with sailing
Now it takes untill compas to build harbor. Carthage can not often build it's UB, as it isn't around anymore when compas it discovered. Harbor have been constructed long before the compas was discoverd. Maybe switching the effects and tech of lighthouse and harbor could be nice to?

I agree completely and wholeheartedly.

I don´t have Civ 4 (i f somebody want to donate 150$ to upgrade mi pc, be my guest) but I can give you the quechuan translation of the Incan cities if somebody provide me with the list. And also, the brbarian city in northen Peru should be name Chan-Chan no doubt.

Edit: Also, Cuzco is name in quechua Qosqo, there is only 3 vocals in that lenguage: A, E-I and O-U

Bless you, sir. I hope you find a way to get it soon.

SilverKnight

 

[fearuin]

well okay but I need from you to have the correct translitteration of all the cities in the city names map and in the random names list

OK, I'll take care. Please send me the list. I might take me a few days, as long as I'm a little busy with two projects this week, so please be patient.

@Blasphemous: OK, thinking on it, the system from CIV makes unnecesary to remove walls. About the tech that might remove the from walls, I just got no idea on this moment, but I has to be something that in the game is discovered regurarly on the XIXth century more or less, because it was the time when most walls in European cities became irrelevant, just a touristic attraction. Maybe Military Tradition, as it represents a change in the conception of armies. Just brainstorming, though. Any ideas are welcome.

 

[Polietileno]

I agree completely and wholeheartedly.

Bless you, sir. I hope you find a way to get it soon.

SilverKnight

The wholre thing is that becaused this mod uses a map of cities, I would need Rhye (or somebody else) to gave me the map of incan cities.

 

[Rhye]

Ollantaytambo
Corihuayachina
Vilcas
Vilcabamba
Vitcos
Andahuaylas
Ica
Atico
Juli
Chuquiapo
Huanucopampa
Tamboccocha
Huaras
Riobamba
Caxamalca
Sausa
Tambocolorado
Huaca
Chuito
Caiamarca
Bombón
Huánuco
Cuenca

-----

Quito
Túcume
Chanchan
Pachacamac
Nazca
Machu Picchu
Cuzco
Huamanga
Arequipa
Tihuanaku (Tiwanaku)
Limatambo
Coquimbo

 

[Polietileno]

Ready:

Ollantaytambo - Ullantaytanpu
Corihuayachina - Curihuayachina
Vilcas - Vilcas
Vilcabamba - Vilcabamba
Vitcos - Vitcos
Andahuaylas - Andahuailas
Ica - Ica
Atico - Acari
Juli - Lluli
Chuquiapo - Chuqiapu
Huanucopampa - Huanuqupampa
Tamboccocha - Tambuqcucha
Huaras - Huaraz
Riobamba*
Caxamalca - Cacsamalca
Sausa - Sauza
Tambocolorado - Tampupuca
Huaca - Huaqa
Chuito - Chuitu
Caiamarca - Cajamarca
Bombón - ???
Huánuco - Lauricucha
Cuenca - Tomebamba

-----

Quito - Quitu
Túcume - Tucume
Chanchan - Chan-Chan
Pachacamac - Pachacamaq
Nazca - Nazca
Machu Picchu - Machu-Pikchu
Cuzco - Qusqu
Huamanga - Huamanga
Arequipa - Ariqipaya
Tihuanaku (Tiwanaku) - Tiyawanaku
Limatambo - Caqonatambu
Coquimbo - Coqimpu

Coments: About Bombón: Wife (arqueologist) and mother in law (linguistic) don´t know where is it, or if there a quechuan translation.
Riobamba was found by the Spanish, but unlike other cities (Huanuco or Cuenca) there isn´t an Incan city below. Leave it untoch.
Also, Chan-Chan and Tucume isn´t quechuan names, but the Moche lenguage was still very strong upon the arrival of the Spanish. There is simply no quechua translation.

 

[Rhye]

thank you very much!

What's the phonetic difference between q and c?

And by the way, I assume that the original names are spanish - is it correct to add correspondences for city renaming on conquest?

 

[Polietileno]

C (or K) is like a normal K sound, and Q is a longer sound. Is like Car and Kane.
The other name are in spanish, yes but what out with the spelling, like Tambococha, Cajamarca and Tiawanaku.
About changing name in conquest:
The spanish built a lot of cities over the incan ones, this is a main list:

Pachacamac - Lima
Chan-Chan - Trujillo
Tucume - Chiclayo
Victos - Piura
Lauricocha - Huanuco
Tiawanaku - Puno
Sausa - Jauja