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[Development] Map Suggestions

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, May 26, 2018.

  1. Tab911

    Tab911 Chieftain

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    Spoiler Final suggestions (East Asia) :

    jade.png
    Siberian Jade mines

    br.png
    -Added opium to Burma and Laos
    Burma has always been a huge producer of opium absolutely needs a source of it here. Laotian northern highlands also are home to many opium fields.
    -Made Laotian highlands tile a savanna
    The highlands are not as wet as the coast.
    -Added rubies north of the jade in Burma
    The Mogok Valley was the worldwide source of rubies for hundreds of years, they ought to have one available for trade.

    sk.png
    -Changed two tiles in southern Sakhalin to moorland
    Allows settlement.
    -Seconding stormogulen's proposals for this region
    Obsidian deposits, I believe there were others.
    -Added coal to Sakhalin
    Mined since Russian occupation.
    -Rare earths in the north east
    Meant to encourage settlement as this corner often never gets a city in most games.

    sc.png
    -Added rare earths to Taiwan
    Reflects industrial growth in the modern era.
    -Replaced South China fish with shrimp
    China should get at least one source of shrimp.

    jp.png
    -Replaced plains with grassland in Japan and Korea
    Is there any reason for the plains tiles in Korea or Japan? I couldn't find anything suggesting these areas were largely drier.
    -Replaced highlighted fish with shrimp
    Obviously Japan needs shrimp, I think there actually should be a second source as well, just not sure where the best place for it is.
    -Extended bamboo forests in lower Honshu
    Wakayama especially needs a forest.
    -Made Mt. Fuji moorland
    Barely noticeable, makes it stand out a bit.
     

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  2. Steb

    Steb King

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    I'd just like to mention that Burma being a big opium producer is largely a modern phenomenon. Opium cultivation probably got important during British occupation (19th c.), and Burma became a massive producer only in the 20th c. So these opium resources should be there, but they should spawn in the late game.
     
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  3. ozqar

    ozqar King

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    Yes! I would like to ask you to reconsider this old proposal of mine for changes in Central America and the Caribbean. I have a feeling you might have seen it and decided against it, but I don't recall explicitly reading a rejection from your side. It's been months, but perhaps while you look at the map now as a whole, working in all the suggestions people have made, this (or part of this) becomes interesting to you. Needless to say, (in my opinion) I believe this is a better geographical representation of the area.

     
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  4. stormogulen

    stormogulen Chieftain

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    Spoiler Australasia :
    australia.jpg
    -Savanna under the tropical forests on the Lesser Sunda Islands, some of the driest islands in Indonesia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Sundas_deciduous_forests).

    -Open savanna for the Trans-Fly savanna on New Guinea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Fly_savanna_and_grasslands).

    -Salt added at Dampier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dampier_Salt). One could alternatively/additionally add one north of Adelaide, where production started earlier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Bumbunga).

    -Northern Australian gems turned into diamonds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyle_diamond_mine).

    -Silver added near Mount Isa (https://www.britannica.com/place/Mount-Isa).

    -Sapphires added near Glenn Innes/Inverell (https://www.gia.edu/images/australian-sapphire-v3-468x634.jpg). Australia was a world-leading sapphire producer in the 20th century, supplying an estimated 70% of the world's sapphires from the 1970's and through the early 1990's. Might be too many gems though (both the the diamonds and the opals in the south probably have higher priority).

    Various island suggestions (without screenshots):

    -Savanna trees for Easter Island (it had extensive palm forests before it was settled).

    -Rainforest for Hainan.

    -If we want a resource for Cape Verde it could get salt.

    -Ascension is mostly desert, so could be a dry island.

    -For S:t Helena I think leafy trees would be more accurate than conifers, while plains might be a good compromise for the terrain (lower areas are often semidesert while the mountains are green).

    -Tristan da Cunha is probably a bit too warm to be a cold island. It mostly looks pretty green on photos, too.

    -I'd turn South Georgia into an ice hill and remove its forest. It actually has no trees at all, and around 75% of it (everything above 300m altitude or so) has a perpetual ice cover.
     
  5. stormogulen

    stormogulen Chieftain

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    Spoiler South Africa :
    SA.jpg
    -Coastal desert extended one tile into South Africa

    -Semidesert extended into southern parts of the Karoo desert area (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoo). Also, I removed a couple of forests nearby.

    -One could add a salt flat in the Northern Cape. The major ones there are Verneukpan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verneukpan) and Grootvloer, which are also surrounded by smaller ones. Of course, giving them a whole tile might be a bit exaggerated.

    -Yellow tiles are turned into hills. The ones on the south coast represent the Cape Fold mountains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Fold_Belt) and could also be turned into plains terrain to represent the mediterranean-like fynbos vegetation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fynbos). The others are intended as part of the Great Escarpment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Escarpment,_Southern_Africa).

    -The Highveld would probably be more accurate with less trees. And I think some of the wetter parts of it could reasonably be grassland (some info on the mesic parts below)

    mesic.jpg

    -Rare earths moved towards Steenkampskraal mine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steenkampskraal_mine) and Zandkopsdrift area.

    -Marked some suggested resource spawns. I believe sugar spawns near Durban already on the current map (as it should). Corn and citrus were introduced to South Africa already in the 17th century, but that might be too early for the marked locations.


    Spoiler West Africa :
    wa.jpg
    -Not really sure where to put the oasis (or even the city itself), but I think Agadez should be possible to settle. It was an important historical caravan town importing salt from Bilma and Fachi to the east (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azalai), and the capital of the Tuareg Sultanate of Aïr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Agadez). Nowadays it is important as a transport center for Niger's uranium (the mines are located around Arlit which is sligthly north of it.

    -Indigo for Kano (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rely-survive-in-nigeria-idUSL2668533920070426). Indigo dye is culturally important for many West African ethnic groups (Tuaregs, Hausa, Yoruba, etc).

    Also, some vague ideas on the Lake Chad area in anticipation of a Kanem Bornu civ:

    -Livestock in central Chad and horses for their famous cavalry.

    -Maybe cotton in the south. It is indigenous to the area, but I think it has mainly been important in the latest century or so.

    -Salt for natron/soda deposits at Tibesti Mountains. There are also deposits around the shores northeast of Lake Chad.

    -Maybe a camel in the north to encourage expanding there.

    -Marshes for the swampy areas around the Chari River, also to block unhistorical (?) city spots.

    -Outside of the screenshot, I think it might be interesting to turn the millet in Senegambia into rice. There is a very long history of rice cultivation there, for example among the Jola people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jola_people).

     
  6. Tab911

    Tab911 Chieftain

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    Excellent suggestions, I was avoiding South Africa because I was mulling an expansion. It doesn't quite taper the way it is supposed to, I understand it is skewed due to the European enlargement but perhaps we can scale it better. I added a row at the bottom and shifted everything west of the dotted line west 1.
    Here's my additions with your suggested changes:
    Spoiler South Africa :

    SA2.png
     

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  7. phoenixfire7

    phoenixfire7 Warlord

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    The spoiler doesn't show the screenshot
     
  8. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    I think this is better than the previous one proposed long ago. :)
     
  9. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Prince

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    Tristan de Cunha is apparently subtropical so cold island would be a weird choice. South Georgia should definitely not have trees. But honestly I'm not sure any of those should be settleable land with the possible exception of St. Helena. A 1 pop city is already FAR more populous than any of those islands have ever been, and since water tiles are a decent food source even without resources the cities would likely grow to a pretty considerable level. Is there some particular reason they should be actual land tiles rather than just island tiles?
     
  10. Steb

    Steb King

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    I'd say strategic considerations. It might be useful to settle some as naval bases maybe? I mean, in practice that's not really useful, but I think the possibility should be there. If they're just isolated island features, they become completely useless. Which might be for the best in some cases.

    The colder islands can get arctic coast instead of regular coast, so they won't have viable growth.
     
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    The current map already has Gems near this location (Abakan). I took this to mean that the Gems are representing the Jade, and replaced them. Or is there anything else they might be there for?
     
  12. stormogulen

    stormogulen Chieftain

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    Spoiler West Africa :
    westafrica.jpg
    -Between basically the Volta River and the Benin-Nigeria border there is an area where the savanna reaches towards the coast and splits the rainforest into two parts (https://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/africa_veg_86.jpg). A gap like that is already present on the map, but it seems placed too far east IMO. So I rearranged it a bit.

    -Added henna. Unsure on exact placements, but one is supposed to be near Aoudaghost and the other around Marandet and Hausaland.

    -Gems at Sierra Leone turned into diamonds. I have no clue what the gems near Benin are supposed to represent and instead gave diamonds to Ghana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akwatia#Diamond_mining). Both can be blocked by jungle as they weren't important before ~1930.

    -Marked some approximate locations for cocoa spawns (19th century). Basically West Africa dominates world production, and Ivory Coast, Ghana, Nigeria and Cameroon are huge producers. Since São Tomé was world-wide #1 producer in the early 20th century and Bioko is also very well-known for cocoa, I think the island can be a nice place to have one.

    -Coffee spawn for Ivory Coast, important historical producer.

    -Cotton for Nigeria/Benin.

    -Corn spawn (tile changed to savanna+savanna trees) and fish for Nigeria (the Ijaw people in the Niger delta are well-known for fishing). Not sure on the plans for the Niger delta and south Nigeria, but in any case it seems too food-poor at the moment IMO. Alternatively, the corn tile could have coal (Enugu) or a potato spawn (yams, cassava). The oil could alternatively be placed 1N or 2E of the new marked location.


    Spoiler Central Africa :
    congo.jpg
    -Blue tiles changed to hills as it's a mountainous area.

    -Eastern Congo has huge deposits of different battery/electronics metals - coltan near the border with Rwanda, and cobalt and lithium in Katanga in the south.

    -Ivory in the area around Stanleyville where the Swahilian Tippu Tip established himself in the 19th century to acquire ivory and slaves.

    -I think the Kongo civ has easy access to ivory on the old map. IMO it makes sense if it does (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_ivories).

    -Salt on the Loango coast (https://www.britannica.com/place/central-Africa/Growth-of-trade).

    -Uranium in Gabon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklo)

    -We could give a banana to Cameroon if we want it to be slightly more habitable.
     
  13. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    As for what is supposed to happen with some parts of the map, I definitely want to revisit independent city spawns and expand them to previously neglected areas and time periods. There both is more space to fill on this map and I think there are already gaps currently that could be filled to provide more flavour. Basically anything in the "what civs should be added" threads could at least show up as some sort of minor city for a while.

    For Nigeria, that should at least include a spawn of Benin at the appropriate time.
     
  14. Steb

    Steb King

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    Not sure if you removed it, but the Shinkolobwe uranium mine in southern DRC is certainly more important than Oklo. Shinkolobwe provided the uranium for the Manhattan project! At it was exploited until 2004.

    (Though I learned that there were natural fission reactors at Oklo. Really cool, I never knew this existed.)
     
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  15. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    The opium plant originated in the Mediterranean. It was introduced to India and China by the Arab traders during the Islamic Golden Age. The British further developed the trade of the resource, but I don't think the British actually introduced it anywhere that it didn't already exist. It had been cultivated and spread by Safavid Iran and the Mughal Empire previously.
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth Friend Next Door Moderator

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    The British vastly expanded cultivation from my understanding though. So I think it makes sense if we see a minor eastward spread of the resource around medieval times and some additional spawns in the 1800s in India and Burma.
     
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  17. Tab911

    Tab911 Chieftain

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    Africa (with thoughts of new civs/city states)
    Spoiler Reference :

    oasis.jpg
    mali.jpg
    mor.jpg
    kb.jpg


    Spoiler North Africa :

    The Sahara contained many developed trade routes, especially around the time that our north Saharan and sub-Saharan empires begin to spawn. I think it deserves more attention and more potential cities to link the powers of the continent. I have labelled all changes on the map, colors highlight terrain changes while elevation has also been revisited to better reflect flat and mountainous areas. I removed all oases and re-placed them based on the above map weighed with important trade cities.

    na.png
    -Marrakesh moved sw to make room for Fez and also prevent relatively useless cities being founded to grab the southern resources
    -Camel and Salt moved to Sijilmassa, an important Saharan trade city that will allow the Moroccans to link to West Africa
    -Wine moved to western coast (location of prominent vineyards)
    -Marble added next to Fez to add to production and reflects quarry location near the mountains
    -Citrus (tangerines) added to Tangiers, where they get their name
    -Wheat added to Oran to add more food and round out Morocco's food resources
    -Oil and Camel added to Ouargla, a prominent trade city in history and currently oil rich
    -Camel added to In Salah, a city near the vitally important trade routes through the Tuat region

    ly.png
    -Semidesert added in northern Libya/Egypt, previously this was a plains forest which does not suit the terrain. I just realized I forgot to place an oasis south of the dye which will help Benghazi/Cyrene/Barca with food
    -Moved dates closer to Tripoli to better suit real life production
    -Moved camel to Zawilah, perhaps a second should be added in the vicinity of Tripoli
    sa.png
    -Added Yobe river in blue
    -Moved salt and added salt flat next to Nijimi
    -Added dates and horses for a KB civ
    -Added stone between Kano and Ngazargamu fitting the construction of, and production need of the two cities
    -Added millet next to Kano to provide more food
    -Moved the other millet closer to Gao
    -Added Henna dye in accordance with stormogulen's suggestions
    -Moved the Hoggar Mountains 1w and replaced the hills based on topography

    wa.png
    -Added resources according to stormogulen (did not place spawning resources)
    -Added stone, dye and camels to to Koumbi Saleh, once the impressive capital of the Ghanain Empire. Might need additional food as well
     
  18. Tab911

    Tab911 Chieftain

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    Part II - Central Africa
    The rest to follow in a future post...
    Spoiler Nigeria :

    Moving on with some suggestions proposed in the African civs thread:
    ng.png
    -Jos Plateau has been moved 1e to better align with location
    -Fish proposed from stormogulen but I put them 1e closer to (the mistyped) Calabar/Akwa Akpa
    -Added potatoes which should be here in pre-Columbian times and changed tile to savana. The importance of yams to Igbo culture cannot be understated, I recommend Things Fall Apart for reference.
    -Added copper to Kano reflecting Yoruba bronzeworking
    -Copper also added south of Sao - The Sao people lived south of Lake Chad and also were notable for agriculture and bronze working. I couldn't find anything on cities but perhaps N'Djamena/Ft. Lamy can be a city to represent them that may be conquered by Nigeria, Kanem or France at various points.
    -Elephant moved further south while horses were added south of Abeche. Abeche is a heavily pastoral trade city and this area is also where Chad gets many of its horses. I am not as familiar with KB but I think this is the most canonical location for Chadian horses.
     
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  19. Vectors

    Vectors Prince

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  20. stormogulen

    stormogulen Chieftain

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    Spoiler Tanzania etc :
    tanzania.jpg
    -Added marshes in Tanzania representing major wetlands in the Zambezian flooded grasslands ecoregion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambezian_flooded_grasslands).

    -Yellow tiles could be changed to flatland. The platue there is mostly pretty flat and has much agriculture, while its elevation isn't that high compared to the surrounding mountains.

    -Regarding Tab911's recent suggestions, the copper at the Rwenzori mountains are for the Kilembe mines in Uganda so if we keep it I don't think it would make sense to move it further into Congo. Instead we could put a coffee on the current ivory, an area where coffee is traditional (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kagera_Region#Cultural_history).

    -Tentatively added a fish in Lake Victoria.

    -As a replacement for the lost ivory, we could place a new one close to the historically ivory-exporting Swahili cities (Mombasa is even today a major hub for illegal ivory). Tanzania and Kenya have certainly never lacked elephants anyway. If the resource density is too high maybe remove one of the two coffees nearby. It doesn't seem that coffee was very important in that area before the late 19th century anyway.

    -Salt at Uvinza (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uvinza)

    Spoiler Zambia etc :
    zambia.jpg
    -Added Zambian marshes. Made Lake Bangweulu a lake, but it could equally well be a marsh. Also some marshes in eastern Angola.

    -Slight rearrangement: emeralds moved into Zimbabwe (Sandawana mines), and coal into South Africa (massive coal producer). Its major coalfields are located slightly east/southeast of Johannesburg.

    -Added peak for the Mulanje Massif in Malawi. Not really sure on this. It obviously doesn't work if Quelimane is supposed to be on this tile.

    -This might be a ridiculous idea, but I tried to turn the Okavango delta into marsh+floodplain instead of semidesert+floodplain. Basically to make it a bit more visually prominent but potentially less useful. Maybe it looks too weird.
     

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