[Development] Map Suggestions

[Glorfindel of Gondolin]

In my opinion some rivers that come down from the Himalayas need to be represented, as there's a ton of them. Like put some river tiles right adjacent to the Himalayas themselves, which will flow into the Ganges.
In my opinion it would better represent mountain ecology. The same might be also suggested for the western and northern Alps.

 

[navivoleb]

Can u add me? https://github.com/NaviVoleb
Thank you!

 

[Bu77Trout]

Is the new map finalized? Looking at the Philippines I really can't reconcile it with reality. The jarring gap between Mindanao and Visayas seems unnatural and I can't find a reason, aesthetically, historically or for gameplay reasons why it should be there. The narrowest point between Mindanao and Visayas is narrower than a number of straits that have been simplified into connecting landmasses (for example the Cook Strait).

 

[Leoreth]

What is your suggestion?

 

[Bu77Trout]

What is your suggestion?

I have three approaches.

Minimalist, just close the gap on the Eastern coast tile. It keeps the sense of an archipelago. The downside, it seems to stretch Mindanao North quite a bit visually.

Spoiler :

Balanced, close the gap by altering the shape of Visayas. This is a better look for Mindanao. The downside is it makes Visayas look a bit too much like one continuous piece of land. Island features could be tweaked to help with this problem.

Spoiler :

Wacky idea. Add a lagoon in the middle. Now there is still a gap between the two landmasses, but I'd argue it's a better looking gap that is truer to the shape. Also the gap would not be as obvious should the lagoon be settled. I would add an island feature on the tile east of the lagoon. The lagoon would function as a land tile making the entire island accessible... Now I guess this could have gameplay implications such as making Cebu into an impenetrable fortress. But it's an idea.

Spoiler :

 

[Temüjin VIII]

Iirc, the original version of the big map implemented the 2nd version.

Not the first, please. It makes Samar/Leyte look actually attached to Mindanao. Not sure what to feel about the lagoon tile. That spot represents more of Eastern Visayas (Samar/Leyte) than Central (Cebu). If you look at the topographic map, Samar and Leyte are rather rugged and hilly, almost mountainous. I don't think it would be best to represent it as a lagoon given that information. Also, even if that tile is to represent Cebu, Cebu island is also hilly especially inland.

Spoiler Visayas topographic map :

Personally, I'd prefer either the 2nd version shown here, or retain status quo.

 

[Bu77Trout]

Iirc, the original version of the big map implemented the 2nd version.

Not the first, please. It makes Samar/Leyte look actually attached to Mindanao. Not sure what to feel about the lagoon tile. That spot represents more of Eastern Visayas (Samar/Leyte) than Central (Cebu). If you look at the topographic map, Samar and Leyte are rather rugged and hilly, almost mountainous. I don't think it would be best to represent it as a lagoon given that information. Also, even if that tile is to represent Cebu, Cebu island is also hilly especially inland.

Spoiler Visayas topographic map :

View attachment 677615

Personally, I'd prefer either the 2nd version shown here, or retain status quo.

You're right about the first option. I definitely think the second is the best option. For the second I would add islands on the same tile east to represent the eastern Visayas. As I added them on the third option. I tried but because of terrain issues they didn't show up...

Status quo just looks so jarring.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

It is a limitation of both the map size, and the square nature of tiles. The upside of the current implementation is that the strait is actually passable regardless of the presence of a friendly city. The downside is that the shape is less accurate than what you're proposing.

Iirc I've made two proposals on the archipelago years apart. Sometime shortly before or after my first proposal, Leoreth implemented the current version and never changed the shape again. The second proposal I made just months ago simply suggested terrain changes and resource placement as he already deemed the landmass shapes final at that point. It will just all boil down to Leoreth's preference however he wants the archipelago to look like.

 

[Bu77Trout]

It is a limitation of both the map size, and the square nature of tiles. The upside of the current implementation is that the strait is actually passable regardless of the presence of a friendly city. The downside is that the shape is less accurate than what you're proposing.

Iirc I've made two proposals on the archipelago years apart. Sometime shortly before or after my first proposal, Leoreth implemented the current version and never changed the shape again. The second proposal I made just months ago simply suggested terrain changes and resource placement as he already deemed the landmass shapes final at that point. It will just all boil down to Leoreth's preference however he wants the archipelago to look like.

Should it be passable without a friendly city though? Perhaps if it's not settled but seems a politically unified Philippines would have control over its interior waters.

 

[Temüjin VIII]

To be fair, cultural control of the tiles by someone you do not have Open Borders with will restrict passage through the strait in the current version. (Except Caravels, my favorite ship hahaha.)

Not sure how DoC currently handles it, but iirc diagonal water tiles perpendicular to two land tiles are not passable. So if we add the extra tile in Proposal 2 which would "connect" Samar/Leyte to Mindanao via Caraga, if no city is founded on that extra tile then ships cannot cross that "strait" created by the diagonal.

 

[Steb]

My two cents is that I prefer the main islands of the Philippines to be connected, since it means less tedium to move stuff around when colonizing the islands

 

[Bubby]

Hey Leoreth, can you add me?

BubbyBG - Overview

GitHub is where BubbyBG builds software.

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Also, is there a reason why RFC Europe and SOI have such good performance optimization other than having a smaller (i think??) map

 

[Leoreth]

Smaller map and fewer civilizations would be my guess. Maybe RFCE has also merged a performance optimized mod to use as its base, I haven't kept up with its development much.

 

[Alexius08]

To be fair, cultural control of the tiles by someone you do not have Open Borders with will restrict passage through the strait in the current version. (Except Caravels, my favorite ship hahaha.)

Not sure how DoC currently handles it, but iirc diagonal water tiles perpendicular to two land tiles are not passable. So if we add the extra tile in Proposal 2 which would "connect" Samar/Leyte to Mindanao via Caraga, if no city is founded on that extra tile then ships cannot cross that "strait" created by the diagonal.

We can afford to lose that strait. It's not like Panama or Suez in the sense that closing it off would mean a longer route.

 

[Alamart]

How about adding rice to Madagascar? It was brought there by Indonesian settlers and is still actively cultivated there. This will highlight Madagascar's connection to the Indonesian region.

 

[Gen1_]

How about adding rice to Madagascar? It was brought there by Indonesian settlers and is still actively cultivated there. This will highlight Madagascar's connection to the Indonesian region.

We can go further.
Madagascar should be historical area for Javanese in 1.18.