Development plans

[phungus420]

There is no morphing. It will be just like Bolivar and the Incans; if Gustov Adolphus is added, he'll be a leader for the Vikings.

 

[Waterhouse]

Non taken, Phungus, I'm just happy if I can be of some assistance. And I see what you mean about the quality of the artwork.
After you clarified that the LH's have to correspond with already existing civs with exactly one current LH, I've had another look at the ones available, and this is what I've come up with. I believe I've been through all of them.

MONGKUT, King of Siam (Khmer) http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13624
ITZCOATL, Emperor of the Aztecs (Aztec)http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12894
MIGUEL HIDALGO, Father of the Mexican Nation (Aztec)http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8014
NELSON MANDELA, President of South Africa (Zulu) http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/mandelam_hFR.jpg -- don't know how much I think he looks like Mandela, though, but love the jacarandas
PAUL KRUEGER, President of Transvaal (Zulu) http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9976

There's a decent one of Kim Jong Il (Korea), but I really think his old man has more merit. In my opinion, however, they look sufficiently similar to simply name the LH Kim Il Sung. But I do think the ones suggested above are better. *EDIT - heres the link* http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=7840

I stumbled upon two LH's that I think look nicer than the current ones:
Julius Caesar http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=13777 and Nebuchanedezzar http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/nebuchadnezzar_Egs.png

I also noticed that currently Johan de Vitt of the Netherlands appears in the LoRtest Leader civiliopedia entry, but not in the Civilisations entry - what's up with that? Is he supposed to be there or not? It seems like a good idea to have him, no? Although I really like his current LH, this one actually looks more authentic: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11524

Assuming you find them agreeable, are these enough to fill the holes? Can't wait for the final version to be released Does the MP work yet?

Finally, if you MUST keep Ragnar Viking, could you be persuaded to add Christian IV as the second Viking LH instead of Gustav?

 

[Waterhouse]

!!! And I've completely forgotten to ask: what is that piece of spectacular music that is LoR's anthem??

EDIT: Also, how likely is it that (the possibility of) extra religions will be added before the release, as discussed in another thread? That would really be traversing the final frontie

 

[phungus420]

Good leaderhead suggestions. As far as the intro music it's actually a combination of two pieces from composers in completely different eras, it's very surprising they flow together so well.

The first one is Dies irae, a 13th Century Hymn, the version used in LoR's intro was composed by mozart in 1791:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_YS...1B39FF735&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2

The second part is the second part of O-fortuna from the Opera Carmina Berana, again a 13th century poem, but the famous operatic style of the piece is very modern, and was composed by Carl Orff in 1935. I actually use the first part of O-fortuna as Hitler's diplo music, because Hitler and Orff were contemperories, and Hitler was known to adore Orff, also it just sounds evil. The first part of O-fortuna is imediately recognizable, but the LoR intro uses the second part of it, which often isn't heard. You can hear the first and second parts played together here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t4ei1khHPI&feature=related

 

[JimboVT]

I am going to try my hand at lobbying. I got shot down once before by I think it was phungus on this but I would like to add my vote for Nelson Mandela. As I recall Mandela wasn't feasable at the time because there wasn't a suitable leaderhead for him. Its not absolutely perfect but the current leaderhead is decent I would grade it at B+ myself. The other reason I recall being given at the time was Mandela really couldn't be classified as Zulu. I don't really know a lot about the Zulus but it seems to me that the black population of South Africa would if for no other reason then geography would be the modern day descendents of the Zulus.

 

[Waterhouse]

Thanks for the music I never knew Carmina Burana had a second part; I think it is almost even better than the first, well-known one.

About Mandela, I (obviously) agree. Having him representing the Zulus is the same principle as Bolivar for the Incas or, just inverted, having Gus or Chris for the Vikings.

Also, what about those religions?

 

[Ambassador]

Actually Carmina Burana is much longer than those two parts, it consists of several folk songs from Benediktbeuren in southern Bavaria.

This is a good rendition:
Carmina Burana

 

[Alsark]

The help I could really use is if someone could write Civilopedia articles for the new leaders in there that don't have Civilopedia descriptions.

Winter break is finally here, and thus, I finally have a little bit of free time! Specifically, which leaders will need Civilopedia entries? I'm currently on a satellite connection, so I cannot download the file (I have limited internet usage per month), so I can just work on things today while I'm at my grandparent's.

 

[Waterhouse]

Here's a controversial suggestion I've been pondering after noticing the pleasing presence of Nebuchanedezzar: How would it be to turn one of Persias current Achaemenid leaders into a Sassanid one? I really love the concept you've introduced of having a civilisation represented through more than one era (like discussed above). Xerxes could easily be dispensed with, he wasn't that great after all, and it would be so cool to have the Sassanid dynasty represented as well. I'd suggest Khosrau I ("the Blessed"). Seeing as the artistic representation of these guys are free imagination anyway, you could just use the current LH and call it "Khosrau" instead. Of course, there's the matter of the traits, but that could also easily be fitted in, I believe?
How's it sound?

 

[Ambassador]

I second this. Khosrow, or whatever you want to spell him in English deserves this certainly more than Xerxes does. Shapour, the first leader of the Parthians would do it as well.

 

[Sidney Magal]

Hey, is there anyway you could make the silly futuristic units optional? Whenever those assault mechs start showing up, I see it's time to start a new game. I don't ask you to remove them because many people must like them, but I don't.

 

[phungus420]

Hey, is there anyway you could make the silly futuristic units optional? Whenever those assault mechs start showing up, I see it's time to start a new game. I don't ask you to remove them because many people must like them, but I don't.

They are the end game unit for when you get to the very end of the tech tree, and are looking to colonize Alpha Centari. It's always been my opinion a sci-fi style unit fits this stage of the game. We talked about this though, since overall I kind of agree with you, and don't like the assault mech, mainly because it's not a viable war machine, at least not based on current technology. I'd much more prefer future style weapons of war that are at least on the drawingboard and plausibly realistic.

What we were going to do was to keep the unit statistically the same, but change the Assault Mech graphically and in the civilopedia to LAN warrior, or some variation thereof (planned future infantry groups that have reactive armor with pseudo predator style cammo, squad level UAVs, and connected via information network); as the LAN warrior projects are actually under development by the major militaries in the world, most notably the US.

However since achilleszero has disappeared the mod no longer has a graphics artist. Thus I am unable to make this planned change. In fact pretty much everything left on the todo list requires a graphics artist, and thus the mod has stalled in development

 

[SHS`]

Hey, is there anyway you could make the silly futuristic units optional? Whenever those assault mechs start showing up, I see it's time to start a new game. I don't ask you to remove them because many people must like them, but I don't.

Well, I like them (and I found LoR because I was looking for a decent start-from-ancient-era Next War mod) though conversely did wonder why they are nerfed compared to the original version (no ranged attack), probably because they aren't national units and can build a huge stack of them.

If Assault Mechs are silly, then so too would mechanised infantry, etc. And heck, space race to Alpha Centuri is just plain super-silly. At least in Next War it's a more "believable" (colonisation) Mission to Mars... where once the human race is that advanced, we probably would have stuff like clone factories, arcologies, etc.

Question to phungus420: Could LoR be have an option to "end game by era", where most people will probably pick either "present" (no "silly" units) or "future" (for extended Next War like shenanigans)?

 

[phungus420]

Question to phungus420: Could LoR be have an option to "end game by era", where most people will probably pick either "present" (no "silly" units) or "future" (for extended Next War like shenanigans)?

We are planning to put an "End Era" field in RevolutionDCM; LoR uses a RevDCM core, and I'm also a member of the RevDCM team, so it will have this option yes. The "End Era" custom game option field will function pretty similarly to the "Start Era" field, the obvious difference being that the Start Era determines what era the game starts in, and End Era will stop technology advancement where it is defined.

To truly implement what you're looking for, we need a Next War component for LoR. I'm kind of unwilling to do this myself to be honest, as a Next War add on doesn't really interest me. Though if someone makes such an add on or mod mod, I'm sure a lot of people would use it. And once the End Era field gets implemented I'd merge that person's work into LoR proper.

 

[SHS`]

Replying to both of phungus420's posts... in reverse order.

Good to here RevDCM is to get an "End Era" flag and if Next War could be added as a component (is this LoR specific or a feature of RevDCM?)... then come the time I'd probably have a stab at this.

The Future Era of the tech tree... well, I can't think of any science fiction book/film/animation if humans were capable of space colonisation spanning light-year distances, that they didn't have some form of "Mecha" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecha), so I'd be rather sad to see it go.

As for actual real world development, IMO Mechs are really just ultimate realisations of what currently are exo-skeletons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdK2y3lphmE

Going from that to Assault Mech is probably about the same "leap" as a hot air balloon (human flight) to orbital space craft.

 

[bestbrian]

We are planning to put an "End Era" field in RevolutionDCM; LoR uses a RevDCM core, and I'm also a member of the RevDCM team, so it will have this option yes. The "End Era" custom game option field will function pretty similarly to the "Start Era" field, the obvious difference being that the Start Era determines what era the game starts in, and End Era will stop technology advancement where it is defined.

To truly implement what you're looking for, we need a Next War component for LoR. I'm kind of unwilling to do this myself to be honest, as a Next War add on doesn't really interest me. Though if someone makes such an add on or mod mod, I'm sure a lot of people would use it. And once the End Era field gets implemented I'd merge that person's work into LoR proper.

Not for nothing, but wouldn't it just be easier to just take the already created bits for NextWar (the graphics, units, extended tech tree, etc), and just "glue" them onto the LoR endgame? Considering all that stuff is already there, would it really add all that much complexity to the mod? That would seem to appease those folks that want to play Future Era, or just can't seem to end their games in a timely fashion.

 

[arkham4269]

Well I would like to see Mobile Infantry look like the way they should: like they were described in Starship Troopers. That weird graphic from that weird mod that came with Civ IV just doesn't cut it.

Plus, powered armor isn't that far fetched. A lot of the work done by DARPA has a lot of the tech already being worked on. The big problem is power. However, it isn't that much of a stretch to believe that there will be some sort of uber-battery created to power the powered armor. (This is more believable than some sort of backpack fusion plant.)

Actually I'd rather have Bolos/Ogres than mechs. With the trend toward UAVs instead of piloted planes, the idea of a A.I. driven super tank makes sense.

 

[WolfHound22]

Ok, phungus. I've gotten this PC's video card fixed so that I can run Civ IV now, but the graphics are so screwed up I can't bear to play it, but I can at least take a look at LoR and what needs to be done if I would make a Next War addon for it.

Remember, the reason that Wolfshanze could be merged easily with Next War was because Wolfshanze left the late modern/future eras mostly unaltered. Stuff could just by copy/pasted over without much additional knowledge. There are a couple of changes here that would pose a challenge in LoR. 1. Smart materials. 2 The assault mech.

1. Next War adds a series of future techs of its own. I need to figure out how to integrate the smart materials tech into the new tech tree. Should it be a dead end or should it lead to some of the Next War techs?

2. I know you said you would replace the assault mech with LAN infantry and keep its stats. A unit by another name with these stats still creates some issues.

The Next War mod adds a new type of unit. Clone infantry. These are mindless cloned drones that are weaker than the most powerful vanilla gunpowder unit (mechanized infantry), but cost less to make and may have some special abilities. A basic breakdown tho is as follows.

Mechanized Infantry (gunpowder): Strength - 32, Moves - 2, Cost - 200
Automatons (clones): Strength - 22, Moves - 1, Cost - 80
Cyborg (clones): Strength -28, Moves - 2, Cost - 100
Assault Mech (Assault Mech, Next War) Strength - 60, Moves - 2, Cost - 450, National Unit (4 allowed)
Assalt Mech/LAN (LoR) Strength - 50, Moves - 2, Cost - 450

In a Next War addon the "smart materials" enabled unit should either be cut out or rebalanced to be only slightly more powerful than mech infantry. In general, rebalancing it to be a lot weaker is probably a good idea even without a Next War addon. In my opinion anyway.

 

[phungus420]

Ultimately the balancing is left up to you of course, since you're the one making a Next War add on. Be advised though that the late game unit progression for LoR has been expanded a bit, so Cloned Infantry would probably need to be altered considerably to make them work. For instance the main issue is that Infantry (or Squad Infantry as they are called in LoR) themselves obsolete and upgrade to Motorized Infantry, Marines, or paratroopers. All the units they upgrade to have a strength of 24, they just have different extra properties (such as Motorized inf is movement 2 and a little cheaper, Paratroopers can paradrop, and Marines are amphibious and get a bonus when attacking MGs).

My personal recommendation for Cloned Inf would be to make them strength 25, movement 2, and rediculously cheap, at least cheap enough so that while they would be considerably weaker, they'd still be a competitive choice when deciding if you want to build Cloned Inf, Mech Infantry, Modern Armor, or LAN inf (currently the assault mech, but the name will change as previously noted).

 

[WolfHound22]

Yes. I'm starting work on it tonight. At least the easy stuff. Files that don't conflict and stuff.

I plan to use the Next War stats for the assault mech, including its tech pre-reqs and national unit status. If I'm feeling particularly adventurous, after getting everything else straightened out I'll consider adding a new legend for the future era that requires smart materials, cloning, bionics, and a cloning factory. Some sort of super-clone or stealth cyber-clone.

Also, if it is within my abilities, I'll see what I can do about adding the logical Revolutions effects to Next War's mind control center, and mod the assault mechs to reduce revolution in garrisoned cities their civilopedia entry hints at.

I don't want to disappoint you or anybody if I can't pull this off. I'm kind of fresh at this thing and only have my Wolfshanze + Next War merge behind me, but I will try.

Ah... I've noticed that you already have the hydroponics and aquaculture techs from Next War in LoR, but don't have the sound quotes for them in your sounds folder. Do they still work? The Next War mod's sound folder as of BtS 3.17 has files for them.