Difficulty Bonus Feedback for VP 3.8+

[Enginseer]

I'll try to explain. The AI in Prince or higher difficulty gains a yield for doing things!
The formula for this yield is

iHandicapBase * ((iHandicapC * Average iEra * Average iEra) + (iHandicapB * Average iEra) + iHandicapA) / 100 * iModifier;

minimum will always be 1 yield at least

Here's the table for VP 3.9.1 (may not be up-to-date if this changed):

Difficulty	iHandicapBase (base multiplier)	iHandicapA (no scaling)	iHandicapB (aka the yield that scales linearly with era)	iHandicapC (aka the yield that scales exponentially with era)
Prince	4	320	190	100
King	7	335	210	123
Emperor	10	350	230	145
Immortal	12	360	240	160
Deity	14	375	260	180

Now you might ask umm where's the iModifier? This is where the doing things comes into play. Lucky for now, the difficulty does not scale these modifiers. You may find out some of these are similar to a list of Historic Events (they are related as they use the same trigger).

Doing Things	Modifier (Get divided by the total # of Cities)	Modifier	Modifier	Modifier (does not add any BGP)
(NEW): Adopting a Policy	0.33x	0.33x	0.33x	-
Conquering a City (records the captured city once, no recapturing bonuses)	1.5x	1.5x	1.5x	1.5x
Founding a City (that is not the Capital)	1x	1x	1x	1x
(NEW): Killing a Barbarian Unit	-	0.1x	0.05x	0.05x
(NEW): Killing a City-State Unit	-	0.2x	0.1x	0.1x
(NEW): Killing a Civilization Unit	-	0.2x	0.1x	0.1x
(NEW): Researched a Technology	0.2x	0.2x	-	0.2x
Digging an Archaeology Site	1x	1x	-	-
Hitting a Golden Age	-	3x	1x	1x
Birthing a Great Person	1x	1x	-	-
Completing a Trade to a City-State	1x	1x	-	-
Completing a Land Trade to a Major Civilization	1x	1x	-	-
Completing a Naval Trade to a Major Civilization	1x	1x	-	-
Peace Treaty with someone (25+ War Score)	2x	2x	2x	2x
Completing a World Wonder	-	3x	1x	1x

Unused Table

(Gets divided by the total # of Cities)	(Unused)	(Got removed recently)	(Unused Great General and Great Admiral Points)	(Unused, gets divided by the total # of City but otherwise adds +1 Population to the Capital no matter how long the amount)

Example of 2 Turns of Deity AI (You can view this in DifficultyHandicapLog.csv; some of these AIs are in the Medieval and Renaissance Era)

The Celts, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM ADOPTING POLICY - Received Handicap Bonus (128 in Yields): FOOD (3 cities, 42 per city), GOLD, SCIENCE.
The Celts, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Carthage, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
The Netherlands, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (3 cities, 25 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Russia, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
Russia, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
The Zulus, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING CITY-STATE UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Rome, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Rome, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
China, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (7 cities, 11 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
China, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
China, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
The Iroquois, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (7 cities, 55 per city), GOLD.
Spain, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Portugal, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (6 cities, 12 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Germany, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (6 cities, 64 per city), GOLD.
Assyria, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (2 cities, 194 per city), GOLD.
Assyria, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Polynesia, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (6 cities, 12 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Indonesia, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Indonesia, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING CITY-STATE UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
India, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (2 cities, 194 per city), GOLD.
Songhai, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (7 cities, 55 per city), GOLD.
Songhai, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM CITY FOUNDING - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (8 cities, 48 per city), GOLD, CULTURE, SCIENCE.
Songhai, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
Greece, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Greece, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
The Inca, 154, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (10 cities, 7 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Carthage, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Russia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (10 cities, 7 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Russia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
Russia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
The Zulus, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (10 cities, 38 per city), GOLD.
The Zulus, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (10 cities, 7 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Rome, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Rome, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Rome, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (7 cities, 55 per city), GOLD.
China, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
The Iroquois, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
The Iroquois, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Spain, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Germany, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM CITY FOUNDING - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (7 cities, 55 per city), GOLD, CULTURE, SCIENCE.
Germany, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
Assyria, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (3 cities, 25 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
Assyria, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Indonesia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (6 cities, 64 per city), GOLD.
Indonesia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (6 cities, 64 per city), GOLD.
Indonesia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM ADOPTING POLICY - Received Handicap Bonus (128 in Yields): FOOD (6 cities, 21 per city), GOLD, SCIENCE.
Indonesia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Indonesia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Indonesia, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING CITY-STATE UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
Songhai, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING BARBARIAN UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (38), CULTURE (19), SCIENCE (19).
Greece, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).
The Shoshone, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: TRADE ROUTE (SEA) - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (2 cities, 194 per city), GOLD.
The Inca, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM HISTORIC EVENT: GREAT PERSON - Received Handicap Bonus (388 in Yields): FOOD (10 cities, 38 per city), GOLD.
England, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM RESEARCHING TECH - Received Handicap Bonus (77 in Yields): FOOD (9 cities, 8 per city), GOLD, CULTURE.
England, 155, VP AI DIFFICULTY BONUS FROM KILLING MAJOR CIV UNIT - Received Handicap Bonus: GOLD (77), CULTURE (38), SCIENCE (38).

The numbers below is how much gold you get at Emperor for each type of bonus, with references to the other yields in each row.

AI Action	Anc/Clas	Med	Ren	Ind	Mod	Atom	Info
Adopting a Policy (Food/Science)	23	45	77	118	169	229	299
Conquer City (Food/Sci/Culture)	108	208	351	538	768	1042	1359
Found Non-Cap City (Food/Sci/Cul)	72	139	234	359	512	695	906
Kill Barb (Sci/2, Cul/2)	7	13	23	35	51	69	90
Kill Unit (Sci/2, Cul/2)	14	27	46	71	102	139	181
Tech (Food/Cul)	14	27	46	71	102	139	181
Dig Site (Food)	NA	NA	NA	359	512	695	906
Golden Age (Sci/3, Cul/3)	217	417	703	1077	1537	2085	2719
GP Birth (Food)	72	139	234	359	512	695	906
External TR Complete (Food)	72	139	234	359	512	695	906
Peace 25+ WS (Food, Sci, Cul)	145	278	469	718	1025	1390	1813
World Wonder (Sci/3, Cul/3)	217	417	703	1077	1537	2085	2719

 

[Enginseer]

I've posted a mini-mod of difficulty tweaking.

Doing Things (My own tweaks)	Modifier (Get divided by the total # of Cities)	Modifier	Modifier	Modifier (does not add any BGP)	(Returns)	Justification
Adopting a Policy	0.33x	0.33x	0x (from 0.33x)	-	-	Adopting Policies should not grant Science to me, but I am okay with Policies promoting more gold and food for AI.
Conquering a City (records the captured city once, no recapturing bonuses)	1.5x	1.5x	1.5x	1.5x	-	-
Founding a City (that is not the Capital)	1x	1x	1x	1x	-	-
Killing a Barbarian Unit	-	0.05x (from 0.1x)	0x (from 0.05x)	0x (from 0.05x)	-	I don't want the AI to gain a free Authority opener and Dominance bonus without taking those Policies, at least for Barbarians.
Killing a City-State Unit	-	0.2x	0.1x	0.1x	-	-
Killing a Civilization Unit	-	0.2x	0.1x	0.1x	-	-
Researched a Technology	0.2x	0.2x	-	0x (from 0.2x)	-	I don't generally want the AI to gain a free Progress scaler bonus without taking Progress.
Digging an Archaeology Site	0x (from 1x)	1x	-	1x (from 0x)	-	The AI who digs an archaeology site are culturally inclined to do so. Reward them with a Culture bonus.
Hitting a Golden Age	2x (from 0x)	3x	1x	1x	-	The AI is more than equipped to handle a baby boom every time they hit a Golden Age that has been getting infrequent this patch yes?
Birthing a Great Person	1x	1x	-	-	0.1x (from 0x)	Great People bring prosperity.
Completing a Trade to a City-State	1x	1x	-	-	0.1x (from 0x)	Trading brings prosperity.
Completing a Land Trade to a Major Civilization	1x	1x	-	-	0.1x (from 0x)	Trading brings prosperity.
Completing a Naval Trade to a Major Civilization	1x	1x	-	-	0.1x (from 0x)	Trading brings prosperity.
Peace Treaty with someone (25+ War Score)	2x	2x	2x	2x	-
Completing a World Wonder	-	3x	1x	1x	-

 

[andersw]

I know Im getting better at the game but I sort of feel the game also got easier, or am I wrong?
I've had to go up to immortal because emperor AI just get rolled.
AI seems to do better in science in 3.9 than 3.8, this also mean there is a decent spread in wonders among AIs.
edit: I voted yes but maybe the AI should have more bonuses? I dont mind if I have to play on a lower difficulty I just feel its wrong if diety is a win every game difficulty, the top cap should be very very hard.

 

[Enginseer]

I know Im getting better at the game but I sort of feel the game also got easier, or am I wrong?
I've had to go up to immortal because emperor AI just get rolled.
AI seems to do better in science in 3.9 than 3.8, this also mean there is a decent spread in wonders among AIs.
edit: I voted yes but maybe the AI should have more bonuses? I dont mind if I have to play on a lower difficulty I just feel its wrong if diety is a win every game difficulty, the top cap should be very very hard.

Golden Age became rarer (from passed proposals and the fact that GAP is no longer given in these difficulty bonuses now) so it made the likelihood of them snowballing even weaker since some of the difficulty bonuses relied on getting fast (and without a doubt more than you the player) golden ages. There are some other factors but unsure.

 

[Stalker0]

Remind me, does this era modifier actually go up with each era or is it standard era scale that doesn’t increase until medieval?

 

[Rosete]

I answered no. My only concern is the culture bonuses. Currently, there is no way to catch up to the AI's culture. You get no policy discount like with tech, and advancement in policy is much more significant than tech. There are some bonus cultures if you're behind through trade route modifiers or spy action, but these are negligible. Thus, the only way to catch up if you're behind in policy, is through war.

I suggest removing the culture bonus from researching a tech because it creates a weird loop of faster tech-->faster policy-->faster tech....

 

[Recursive]

Remind me, does this era modifier actually go up with each era or is it standard era scale that doesn’t increase until medieval?

Standard era scaling. The era used is the average era, not the civ's era.

If you answer no, please specify why. I'm open to adjusting them further.

In addition to the bonuses above, the AI gets a Production discount on buildings and combat units (increasing each era).

 

[Stalker0]

With respect, I don't have a freakin clue what this poll is trying to say. That the current bonuses are giving me a good difficulty, that the ABC system is good or bad, that there should be more bonuses, less?

 

[Stalker0]

While the raw info above is useful as a reference, for most people it doesn't really tell you anything about the bonuses the AI is getting. So I've translated the bonuses for Emperor into more easy to understand bonuses.

The numbers below is how much gold you get at Emperor for each type of bonus, with references to the other yields in each row.

AI Action	Anc/Clas	Med	Ren	Ind	Mod	Atom	Info
Adopting a Policy (Food/Science)	23	45	77	118	169	229	299
Conquer City (Food/Sci/Culture)	108	208	351	538	768	1042	1359
Found Non-Cap City (Food/Sci/Cul)	72	139	234	359	512	695	906
Kill Barb (Sci/2, Cul/2)	7	13	23	35	51	69	90
Kill Unit (Sci/2, Cul/2)	14	27	46	71	102	139	181
Tech (Food/Cul)	14	27	46	71	102	139	181
Dig Site (Food)	NA	NA	NA	359	512	695	906
Golden Age (Sci/3, Cul/3)	217	417	703	1077	1537	2085	2719
GP Birth (Food)	72	139	234	359	512	695	906
External TR Complete (Food)	72	139	234	359	512	695	906
Peace 25+ WS (Food, Sci, Cul)	145	278	469	718	1025	1390	1813
World Wonder (Sci/3, Cul/3)	217	417	703	1077	1537	2085	2719

Example: Adopting a policy in medieval gives you 45 gold, 45 food (distributed among cities), and 45 science.
Triggering a golden age in Renaissance gives 703 gold, 234 science, and 234 culture.

 

[Stalker0]

So if I were to nitpick the core ABC system itself, I think the biggest "limit" to the system is that all bonuses start at the ancient era. The ancient/classical is a special time in the game, due to the snowbally nature of the game, any bonus placed here has an inordinate impact to the game overall. Even if I increase the "C" value for more late game scaling, I'm still increasing the early game as well. That can in theory be adjusted with drops to the A value, but there is only so much you can do there.

I would love a "D" value that has Bonus * (Era-1), aka has no impact in ancient/classical and only kicks in at medieval. That gives you a lot of freedom to scale the mid and late game without touching the early game.

Or if you wanted to make the system more granular
(and wanted to more redo the concept), you could literally make a bonus "for each specific era".

Example: Ancient - 50, Classical - 55, Info - 1000, etc.

This would give you the ultimate in exact adjustment. You could literally specify exactly how much bonus the AI gets in each era, and no era's bonuses impacts any other.

The only rub with such a system is that modmods that add eras would need to add in their own extra line of bonuses for their new era, but it could be done.

 

[Enginseer]

So if I were to nitpick the core ABC system itself, I think the biggest "limit" to the system is that all bonuses start at the ancient era. The ancient/classical is a special time in the game, due to the snowbally nature of the game, any bonus placed here has an inordinate impact to the game overall. Even if I increase the "C" value for more late game scaling, I'm still increasing the early game as well. That can in theory be adjusted with drops to the A value, but there is only so much you can do there.

I would love a "D" value that has Bonus * (Era-1), aka has no impact in ancient/classical and only kicks in at medieval. That gives you a lot of freedom to scale the mid and late game without touching the early game.

Or if you wanted to make the system more granular
(and wanted to more redo the concept), you could literally make a bonus "for each specific era".

Example: Ancient - 50, Classical - 55, Info - 1000, etc.

This would give you the ultimate in exact adjustment. You could literally specify exactly how much bonus the AI gets in each era, and no era's bonuses impacts any other.

The only rub with such a system is that modmods that add eras would need to add in their own extra line of bonuses for their new era, but it could be done.

So there's code here

    int iEra = GC.getGame().getCurrentEra();
    if (iEra <= 0)
        iEra = 1;

We could make it where B and C do not get activated in the ancient era until most of everybody is in the classical era.

With respect, I don't have a freakin clue what this poll is trying to say. That the current bonuses are giving me a good difficulty, that the ABC system is good or bad, that there should be more bonuses, less?

Approval Poll. Vote yes if you're content with how it's going and don't mind how it's developing/changing. Vote no if you're not content (comment why you're not content would be helpful to changing your mind) with any part of the system

I answered no. My only concern is the culture bonuses. Currently, there is no way to catch up to the AI's culture. You get no policy discount like with tech, and advancement in policy is much more significant than tech. There are some bonus cultures if you're behind through trade route modifiers or spy action, but these are negligible. Thus, the only way to catch up if you're behind in policy, is through war.

I suggest removing the culture bonus from researching a tech because it creates a weird loop of faster tech-->faster policy-->faster tech....

I agree, in a separate post, I'm going to post my suggested changes for people to try out if desire to try.

 

[Barna1]

I would love a "D" value that has Bonus * (Era-1), aka has no impact in ancient/classical and only kicks in at medieval. That gives you a lot of freedom to scale the mid and late game without touching the early game.

I think that's already possible using the ABC system. For example, if you want D=50, you can simply increase B by 50 and decrease A by 50, then you changed the bonus by 50*(era-1). But the ABC system certainly has limitations, and it might be better to refine the formula or even set the bonuses for each era manually, as you mentioned.

 

[Civrinn]

I know Im getting better at the game but I sort of feel the game also got easier, or am I wrong?
I've had to go up to immortal because emperor AI just get rolled.
AI seems to do better in science in 3.9 than 3.8, this also mean there is a decent spread in wonders among AIs.
edit: I voted yes but maybe the AI should have more bonuses? I dont mind if I have to play on a lower difficulty I just feel its wrong if diety is a win every game difficulty, the top cap should be very very hard.

This is kind of off topic but you are probably just getting better (assuming you have been playing VP mod for a while). That said...there was a period...6 months back where the AI "seemed" to be more peaceful. Thats just my experience though and since recent its seemed just as aggressive as it used to be. I started playing a few years ago at like warlord? Now i usually play emporer (and win) and sometimes play immortal. I would only be concerned if everyone was steamrolling deity, but I don't think that is the case. That said you can always make a new thread and with a poll and see how people feel.

 

[Civrinn]

For my own feedback, the AI seems challenging...I do appreciate the formula and some numbers (stalker) for a bit more understanding.
Edit: I voted yes mostly because I am not much of a deity player and I am hovering around my same level Emp (I don't like to optimize to that level or play pure warmonger) but I am willing to try mods with difficulty adjustments and give feedback.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I did not delve into the details of these bonuses, but the game feels too easy on deity, esp. when playing domination. Back in the day when Milae's difficulty mod was in line with the current VP version, even domination games could be tough. But now not so any more. Also, the AIs build way fewer units than before. I know it was changed to reduce the grind. But it has made wars much easier.
Ideally, deity should only be winnable by the best players when they play well and only make a few mistakes. Some games with extra hard starts might even be unwinnable.

 

[andersw]

I did not delve into the details of these bonuses, but the game feels too easy on deity, esp. when playing domination. Back in the day when Milae's difficulty mod was in line with the current VP version, even domination games could be tough. But now not so any more. Also, the AIs build way fewer units than before. I know it was changed to reduce the grind. But it has made wars much easier.
Ideally, deity should only be winnable by the best players when they play well and only make a few mistakes. Some games with extra hard starts might even be unwinnable.

I agree on your take on diety.
Here is from 3.9 emperor diff, France had a unit on almost every tile and he kept replacing like no tomorrow.

Spoiler :

 

[NerfRDD]

I tried out Enginseer's tweaks in a few games and I have to say that it has been a lot of fun.I am not a big fan of having the AI snowball for free with the tech gives culture-culture gives tech loop.
As Stalker0 said,the bonuses would feel much better if they came in at medieval+ eras to balance out the early game.I wonder if it's possible to have a scaling bonus so that AIs that are too far behind are given more bonuses to catch up and vice versa take away some of the bonuses from snowballing ones.I normally play on immortal and feel like you really have to go on a killing spree in order to catch up in the higher difficulties.

 

[Agiwan]

Maybe Enginseer's tweaks can be proposed for the next congress ?

 

[KlHannibal2]

I tried out Enginseer's tweaks in a few games and I have to say that it has been a lot of fun.I am not a big fan of having the AI snowball for free with the tech gives culture-culture gives tech loop.
As Stalker0 said,the bonuses would feel much better if they came in at medieval+ eras to balance out the early game.I wonder if it's possible to have a scaling bonus so that AIs that are too far behind are given more bonuses to catch up and vice versa take away some of the bonuses from snowballing ones.I normally play on immortal and feel like you really have to go on a killing spree in order to catch up in the higher difficulties.

When I play peacefully, I have the same perspective. When I play domination, I actually want one or two AIs to snowball. If there is no AI runaway, a domination game is practically won after taking out one or maximum two AIs, and playing on to see the victory screen is dull click-work.

It's hard to find a good balance for peaceful and domination games.

 

[ma_kuh]

I've been wondering for a few patches if the rise of domination strategies (on the AI side) is more to do with non-militaristic civs just not building enough defenses. It's true they just don't get as many free units, but if they also aren't prioritizing military until they're actively in a war, then they're basically just playing ultra greedy and being punished. Which on the one hand is perfectly reasonable, but on the other, would be nice if they were adaptive enough to realize "I'm surrounded by warmongers, I should probably play for a heavier defensive military style".