Dimalio (01)
- Thread starter dimaliok
- Start date
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
Okay, I'll try to post the set now. I played 25 turns, as you coould probably guess from when I said:
Quick notes:
-although I played a Pre-turn when my set started on turn 1 (thanks to goodsmell), the set strangely ended on 1500 BC, the correct turn.
-We now have Writing and IW and are researching MM.
-There are Horses and Iron in our territory, but neither are hooked up yet. However, my workers are roading the Iron.
-The civs' cities (IIRC): Us:4 India:4 Aztecs:4 Persia:3 Greece:2
-We have embassies with everyone but Persia.
And the set:
Pre-Turn (2350 BC):
-strangely, when I move the science slider then move it back to 90%, our income increases. Oh well, I don't have a problem with that.
-of course, all four civs are behind us in tech.
-MM washington so Granary will complete before growth.
IBT:
-Washington: Granary->Settler
Turn 1 (2310 BC):
zzz
IBT:
zzz
Turn 2 (2270 BC):
-Washington grew, so I change new citizen to taxman to prevent riot.
-sci slider: decrease to 80%, Writing still in 4.
-scout sees hut- this time, I use a placeholder for Settler, But I pop 25 gold.
IBT:
zzz
Turn 3 (2230 BC):
-disorder in NY- oops. Change unhappy laborer to taxman.
-decrease science to 70%, Writing still in 2 (I think).
IBT:
NY: order restores, then it starves, then it builds: Warrior->Spear
TUrn 4 (2190 BC):
-NY Warrior fortifies
-decrease science to 50%, the lowest at which Writing will come in next turn.
IBT:
-Writing comes in, set research to IW and 80% science. comes in in 15.
Turn 5 (2150 BC):
-establish embassies with Greeks, Aztecs, and Indians.
IBT:
-Washington: Settler->rax
Turn 6-Turn 7 (2110 BC-2070 BC):
zzz
IBT:
zzz
Turn 8 (2030 BC):
-found Boston: set build to Warrior
IBT:
-My warrior is in Aztec borders, so Monty asked him to leave. Sorry, Monty, he'll leave!
Turn 9-Turn 10 (1990 BC-1950 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-CD in Washington, taxman must've quit. I (forcibly
) rehire him.
-NY: spear->temple
Turn 11 (1910 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-order restored in Washington.
-Boston: Warrior->Walls
Turn 12 (1870 BC):
-Bostonian Warrior fortifies
IBT:
zzz
Turn 13 (1830 BC):
-sci slider decreased to 70%, IW still in 4.
IBT:
-Washington: rax->settler
Turn 14 (1790 BC):
-Warrior pops hut- gets zip. And yes, vmxa, I did use a placeholder for the Settler.
-decrease science to 50% IW still in 3.
IBT:
zzz
Turn 15 (1750 BC):
IBT:
zzz
Turn 16 (1725 BC):
-sci slider: even at 10%, IW still comes in next turn.
-My warrior is once again in Aztec borders, as Texcoco was founded last IBT.
IBT:
-strangely, Monty doesn't ask me to leave.
-science: IW comes in, set research to MM at 80%, comes in in 18.
Turn 17 (1700 BC):
-Washington is in CD. change taxman to clown (trust me, it was better than using two taxmen)
-The closest Iron resource:
IBT:
-order restored in Washington
Turn 18 (1675 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-Boston: Walls-> Spear
Turn 19 (1650 BC):
-I am amazed by the fact that none of the AI civs know each other (must be why they're so behind in tech
)
-Oh, I forgot to mention, the Indians are getting too close to the Iron with their 4th city. Looks like the Washingtonian almost-settler will be used to claim it, which I do.
IBT:
-Washington: Settler->spear
Turn 20-Turn 21 (1625 BC-1600 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-CD in washington, new citizen changed to taxman.
Turn 22 (1575 BC):
-take a peek into Greek territory
IBT:
-of course, Alex asks me to leave. Okay!
Turn 23 (1550 BC):
-found Philadelphia, set it to build Warrior. I later realize settling 1NE would have been better
IBT:
-Washington: Spear->Settler
-Boston: Spear->Temple
Turn 24-Turn 25 (1525 BC-1500 BC):
And that's it.
Here's the save.
me said:
Quick notes:
-although I played a Pre-turn when my set started on turn 1 (thanks to goodsmell), the set strangely ended on 1500 BC, the correct turn.
-We now have Writing and IW and are researching MM.
-There are Horses and Iron in our territory, but neither are hooked up yet. However, my workers are roading the Iron.
-The civs' cities (IIRC): Us:4 India:4 Aztecs:4 Persia:3 Greece:2
-We have embassies with everyone but Persia.
And the set:
Pre-Turn (2350 BC):
-strangely, when I move the science slider then move it back to 90%, our income increases. Oh well, I don't have a problem with that.
-of course, all four civs are behind us in tech.
-MM washington so Granary will complete before growth.
IBT:
-Washington: Granary->Settler
Turn 1 (2310 BC):
zzz
IBT:
zzz
Turn 2 (2270 BC):
-Washington grew, so I change new citizen to taxman to prevent riot.
-sci slider: decrease to 80%, Writing still in 4.
-scout sees hut- this time, I use a placeholder for Settler, But I pop 25 gold.
IBT:
zzz
Turn 3 (2230 BC):
-disorder in NY- oops. Change unhappy laborer to taxman.
-decrease science to 70%, Writing still in 2 (I think).
IBT:
NY: order restores, then it starves, then it builds: Warrior->Spear
TUrn 4 (2190 BC):
-NY Warrior fortifies
-decrease science to 50%, the lowest at which Writing will come in next turn.
IBT:
-Writing comes in, set research to IW and 80% science. comes in in 15.
Turn 5 (2150 BC):
-establish embassies with Greeks, Aztecs, and Indians.
IBT:
-Washington: Settler->rax
Turn 6-Turn 7 (2110 BC-2070 BC):
zzz
IBT:
zzz
Turn 8 (2030 BC):
-found Boston: set build to Warrior
IBT:
-My warrior is in Aztec borders, so Monty asked him to leave. Sorry, Monty, he'll leave!
Turn 9-Turn 10 (1990 BC-1950 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-CD in Washington, taxman must've quit. I (forcibly
) rehire him.-NY: spear->temple
Turn 11 (1910 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-order restored in Washington.
-Boston: Warrior->Walls
Turn 12 (1870 BC):
-Bostonian Warrior fortifies
IBT:
zzz
Turn 13 (1830 BC):
-sci slider decreased to 70%, IW still in 4.
IBT:
-Washington: rax->settler
Turn 14 (1790 BC):
-Warrior pops hut- gets zip. And yes, vmxa, I did use a placeholder for the Settler.
-decrease science to 50% IW still in 3.
IBT:
zzz
Turn 15 (1750 BC):
IBT:
zzz
Turn 16 (1725 BC):
-sci slider: even at 10%, IW still comes in next turn.
-My warrior is once again in Aztec borders, as Texcoco was founded last IBT.
IBT:
-strangely, Monty doesn't ask me to leave.
-science: IW comes in, set research to MM at 80%, comes in in 18.
Turn 17 (1700 BC):
-Washington is in CD. change taxman to clown (trust me, it was better than using two taxmen)
-The closest Iron resource:
IBT:
-order restored in Washington
Turn 18 (1675 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-Boston: Walls-> Spear
Turn 19 (1650 BC):
-I am amazed by the fact that none of the AI civs know each other (must be why they're so behind in tech
)-Oh, I forgot to mention, the Indians are getting too close to the Iron with their 4th city. Looks like the Washingtonian almost-settler will be used to claim it, which I do.
IBT:
-Washington: Settler->spear
Turn 20-Turn 21 (1625 BC-1600 BC):
zzz
IBT:
-CD in washington, new citizen changed to taxman.
Turn 22 (1575 BC):
-take a peek into Greek territory
IBT:
-of course, Alex asks me to leave. Okay!
Turn 23 (1550 BC):
-found Philadelphia, set it to build Warrior. I later realize settling 1NE would have been better
IBT:
-Washington: Spear->Settler
-Boston: Spear->Temple
Turn 24-Turn 25 (1525 BC-1500 BC):
And that's it.
Here's the save.
Here's a dotmap I created, which is open to comments:
What those dots meant:
Red dots:
-Just cities that seem like good locations.
Blue dots:
-Grab some Ivory, and some bonus resources.
Purple dot:
-Has game, is coastal.
Green dot:
-Grab some dyes and a BG or two.
What those dots meant:
Red dots:
-Just cities that seem like good locations.
Blue dots:
-Grab some Ivory, and some bonus resources.
Purple dot:
-Has game, is coastal.
Green dot:
-Grab some dyes and a BG or two.
goodsmell
Psychonaturalist
I guess it would be nice if we settle our next cities west and south before northen part of continent since we don't have any civs northen .
Choxorn since it's a Regent , you can only use the lux slider but don't change labors for taxmen I think it's waste , and if the city is on SHORTAGE I think you can try to change all labors to taxmen and have a good money for one turn .
since it's just Regent I hope we won't consider about Gambit 0% Science . let's research everything as fast as we can afford .
and chox , please detail the gpt after you decrease / raise sliders .
Choxorn since it's a Regent , you can only use the lux slider but don't change labors for taxmen I think it's waste , and if the city is on SHORTAGE I think you can try to change all labors to taxmen and have a good money for one turn .
since it's just Regent I hope we won't consider about Gambit 0% Science . let's research everything as fast as we can afford .
and chox , please detail the gpt after you decrease / raise sliders .
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Bad placement on Philadelphia....2 west of its current location would have been much better...freshwater, fish, ...
and why did you buid walls in Boston? Even with barbs, a spear stops hordes because in Regent level, advantage against barbs is huge.
Its 1500BC, you should have much more cities by now...
and why did you buid walls in Boston? Even with barbs, a spear stops hordes because in Regent level, advantage against barbs is huge. Its 1500BC, you should have much more cities by now...Ansar_the_King said:Bad placement on Philadelphia....2 west of its current location would have been much better...freshwater, fish, ...
I told you, I realized that. and don't you mean 2 east?
Ansar_the_King said:and why did you buid walls in Boston? Even with barbs, a spear stops hordes because in Regent level, advantage against barbs is huge.
I have a thing for building unessecary buildings.
Ansar_the_King said:
I'm trying to build as many as I can. But hey, at least we're keeping up with the AI.
goodsmell said:
I don't think we should use the slider until the pop gets to about size 6- 1 taxman doesn't hurt.
goodsmell said:
with you there. As for the gpt increase, It was, IIRC, always 1-3 gpt.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: oh yea. sorry choxorn. cant remember my navigating skills.
![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/offtopic.gif "Offtopic [offtopic]")
Ansar, were you trying to annoy me? 
choxorn said:
Lurker:
Here is the way I would look at slider Vs taxmen. In the early part of the game, it is about food. If you make a taxman, you lost food.
Later it is about shields, specialist other than engineers, do not yield shields, so you give up shields. If this is a corrupt town, you give up nothing, but food. Food is no longer the number one item.
Also you may have markets and even banks, so the 2 gold may not be as much as the gold they could have made after the boost.
IOW, you pretty much always need to look at the whole picture, before making a choice. The earlier it is in the game the easier it is to use the slider and gain the food.
My point was that we can use other ways to keep them happy before they get to size 6. MP's and luxes can solve that. I think we should get the dyes soon, and the ivory up north would also be a good thing to get. As for wasting food, the citizens I turned into taxmen were working 1fpt or 2fpt tiles, so not much of a loss. Plus, Washington won't starve- it has an irrigated cow. 
D'Artagnan59
The Gascon
Plus, Philly is ICS. I say we abandon it and build a new Philly 2E, but as I always insist, keep the city order. KEEP THE CITY ORDER!
goodsmell
Psychonaturalist
Choxorn you won't change my opinion , but I'm pretty sure many experienced players will agree with me like vmxa did . You cannot put your-self in situation like "I'm not using Luxslider untill cities pops above the 6" . early in game the food is so important , and probably it's a damaged city because it's your 1st expanding and you won't locate first cities far from the house . look , as I think and as I saw , the other civs in our continent are'nt so advanced and have nothing to offer us for our gold , you see ? so we don't really need to be reach as we should if we were playing on Emperor or above .
teamates I've my point now , I think we only have to use taxmen / entertainment to prevet our city from Civili disorder , when our lux slider is already on 30% . I think for Regent it's the maximum we should use , if we've riots in our new cities let's just guard them with warriors .
teamates I've my point now , I think we only have to use taxmen / entertainment to prevet our city from Civili disorder , when our lux slider is already on 30% . I think for Regent it's the maximum we should use , if we've riots in our new cities let's just guard them with warriors .
Lurker:
Consider this:
Washington grow in 2, 10F 6S 9C +1 tax. Empire 23+1 tax 17 beakers. Slider to 10, taxman to road grass. Washinton now grows in 1 turn. Empire 25 and 18 beakers. All towns have a happy face now. This means an MP is free to move to someplace else, if you like.
If you had a decent number of workers, the tile could have been mined and you could gain another shield. You have 1 worker for 4 towns, ouch.
You placed Philly right on top of Ghandi and he is not going to like that a bit. Why not be on the lake for the fish instead, now you have lost a settler at the most important part of the game.
Two of 4 towns are building a temple? What, this is regent, I do not even make them at this stage on sid. You just do not need them and have lost a lot of time.
Four or 5 workers would make things roll along, especially now that you have seen the jungle.
Why did someone mine that hill? That is insane at this stage of the game, even worse as you have only one worker as near as I can see. What I see there are two on that montain.
Frankly I would not agree with either using two workers so early in the game for roading or mining a mountain now. Yes you see Iron, you figure to go to war real soon? I think not, so why worry about swords now. You do not have the production to build them anyway. Better those workers did something useful.
Like say mine some grassland on rivers? Why are mines on plains, now? You had grass to mine first. Roads to build. Flood plains to irrigate.
Spears are not a good plan at this level, unless you are facing a threat or it is AW. Again you are not going to be in combat soon and spears do not factor as well into the AI's perception of you being weak.
You can make a nice case that the barracks was premature as well for the reason I gave above. wait until you are making something good like horses or swords to make a barracks.
Regent is a level that you should be able to get out in front of the AI and they will be intimidated, you will not have to fight so early, so take advantage of that knowledge to make workers/settlers and get larger.
Anyway a +4 food Washington is far better than a +2 food Washington. regardless of the cost at this point in the game.
Evaluate what I said and see if it makes sense. Maybe even load the 4000BC and shadow the game to this point and see if you can make a big improvement.
Good Luck
Consider this:
Washington grow in 2, 10F 6S 9C +1 tax. Empire 23+1 tax 17 beakers. Slider to 10, taxman to road grass. Washinton now grows in 1 turn. Empire 25 and 18 beakers. All towns have a happy face now. This means an MP is free to move to someplace else, if you like.
If you had a decent number of workers, the tile could have been mined and you could gain another shield. You have 1 worker for 4 towns, ouch.
You placed Philly right on top of Ghandi and he is not going to like that a bit. Why not be on the lake for the fish instead, now you have lost a settler at the most important part of the game.
Two of 4 towns are building a temple? What, this is regent, I do not even make them at this stage on sid. You just do not need them and have lost a lot of time.
Four or 5 workers would make things roll along, especially now that you have seen the jungle.
Why did someone mine that hill? That is insane at this stage of the game, even worse as you have only one worker as near as I can see. What I see there are two on that montain.
Frankly I would not agree with either using two workers so early in the game for roading or mining a mountain now. Yes you see Iron, you figure to go to war real soon? I think not, so why worry about swords now. You do not have the production to build them anyway. Better those workers did something useful.
Like say mine some grassland on rivers? Why are mines on plains, now? You had grass to mine first. Roads to build. Flood plains to irrigate.
Spears are not a good plan at this level, unless you are facing a threat or it is AW. Again you are not going to be in combat soon and spears do not factor as well into the AI's perception of you being weak.
You can make a nice case that the barracks was premature as well for the reason I gave above. wait until you are making something good like horses or swords to make a barracks.
Regent is a level that you should be able to get out in front of the AI and they will be intimidated, you will not have to fight so early, so take advantage of that knowledge to make workers/settlers and get larger.
Anyway a +4 food Washington is far better than a +2 food Washington. regardless of the cost at this point in the game.
Evaluate what I said and see if it makes sense. Maybe even load the 4000BC and shadow the game to this point and see if you can make a big improvement.
Good Luck
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Just wanted you guys to see what would look like if someone else, like me played the turns. No offense choxorn, just showing a different version of your turns.
Spoiler 25-turn log :
Sometimes I do stupid things like that. Just shows how inexperienced I am. 
Why they were building temples? To get to the bonus resources/grasssland just outside the culture borders.
As for Ansar's set, it is clearly superior to mine. Do you think we should play my save or Ansar's? My vote is for Ansar.
Why they were building temples? To get to the bonus resources/grasssland just outside the culture borders.As for Ansar's set, it is clearly superior to mine. Do you think we should play my save or Ansar's? My vote is for Ansar.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
lurker's comment: Well, continue playing off yours. Mine is just to show what would have happened. And anyways, my save is complicated. I used many of my personal moves, something that you acquire as you move on to higher levels.
Dont worry, choxorn, your save is fine. This is only Regent level, mistakes are allowed.
Dont worry, choxorn, your save is fine. This is only Regent level, mistakes are allowed.
Ansar_the_King said:Dont worry, choxorn, your save is fine. This is only Regent level, mistakes are allowed.
I know.
at Chieftain and Warlord, you can get away with many mistakes like that (one of them being settling on bonus resources or BGs).
choxorn said:
I undertand that was the thinking. What I am suggesting is that there is not rush to do that in this game. You can keep growing and make settlers and workers at that point.
Later you can use a lib to get the culture pop or even a temple in one or two places. The thing is that 60 shields from a size 1 or 2 town is painful. Once it gets larger it can make a temple or lib faster, after the expansion is done or nearly done.
You do not want to slow down the land grab for temples, especially at Regent.
As for the Frogs save, look at it. Think about what has been said and then replay from farther back. You can then try some things differently and see how it turns out. That may lead to a better method and understanding, that you can incorporate.
That is one way to improve. Just looking at someones save will not do it, otherwise we could all look at Aeson's games and be masters. It takes playing and doing to burn in the concepts.
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