bawhomp: Did we send a message to you guys today?
fe3333au: skippy e-mail
bawhomp: sweet
fe3333au: about trade not swappinbg
fe3333au: *swapping
fe3333au: not today but yesterday
bawhomp: ok so he filled you in.
bawhomp: how sweet is that.
bawhomp: we've got these guys by the yah yahs
fe3333au: fill me in more ... the e-mail I got was about keeping our relationship hidden
bawhomp: OK here's the deal. I may be speaking out of turn but so what
bawhomp: We ended up getting CoL and Philo from Donut.
fe3333au: damn we were going for that
bawhomp: No worries now
bawhomp: It's the best possible situation
fe3333au: what you trade for it
bawhomp: cb, wc, iw and myst
fe3333au: **** man ... you said that we should play hardball
fe3333au: we could have gone for Wheel, IW and WC
fe3333au: for the same thing
bawhomp: not CoL
fe3333au: wish you had waited
fe3333au: yes for phil and CoL
bawhomp: hmmm...
bawhomp: I wasn't in the deal but tubby figured we got more beakers in return than we gave.
bawhomp: I was at the baseball game that night.
fe3333au: we really should have talked ... even with an e-mail
bawhomp: I'm sorry.
bawhomp: I wasn't there.
fe3333au: not mad at you ... and I've been away
bawhomp: I was looking for you.
fe3333au: but disa[ppointed cos now you want us to pay for tech thatr we could have gone for
bawhomp: no
bawhomp: not true
fe3333au: was ken or emp around?
bawhomp: I wasn't involved in the transaction but it was a good deal.
fe3333au: call it a hickup ;-)
bawhomp: I think it gives us both what we want
bawhomp: and what they need
bawhomp: prolong a war
fe3333au: so do we get philo and CoL from you?
bawhomp: Yes
fe3333au: free?
bawhomp: Yes.
fe3333au: 1 sec
bawhomp: We would like wheel if you'd be so kind but we need to talk about that.
fe3333au: Oh of course we will give you wheel ...
bawhomp: Here's the thing. We need to trickle techs to each other.
fe3333au: But this will give Nuts intel that we are trading tech
bawhomp: I don't think we want donut to know we friends
bawhomp: So we make it look like tech trades
bawhomp: They want to full research with us but I think I'd like to steer them towards monarchy.
fe3333au: Looks like Nuts will ask for Wheel from us
bawhomp: They're researching it
fe3333au: how will it look if we don't trade
fe3333au: ok
bawhomp: Now they can go HBR a
fe3333au: my team will be pissed off
bawhomp: and I'd like them to research monarchy
bawhomp: I'm sorry. I think we screwed up.
fe3333au: yep
fe3333au: I know how many think
bawhomp: Hmm...
fe3333au: atm ... you are ahead in evrything .... how can this be addressed
bawhomp: We will give you everything.
fe3333au: the relationship not equal
fe3333au: trickle
bawhomp: To make it like transparent.
fe3333au: welll lets look at it
fe3333au: you have Philo
fe3333au: that is dead end tech
fe3333au: we don't actually need atm
bawhomp: no you need it for republic
fe3333au: so you keep that one
bawhomp: CoL has value to you
fe3333au: maybe you research re[public and we other stuff
bawhomp: This opens up the tree big time
fe3333au: yes CoL
bawhomp: exactly
bawhomp: The problem was we wanted to get it done before our turn.
fe3333au: so we give wheel for CoL or ... trust us to give it when you want it
bawhomp: I will make a personal apology if necessary.
fe3333au: there are huts with tech to be popped ;-)
fe3333au: Well I don't think that is necessary ... you and I have both got proven track record in honesty and openness
bawhomp: I think when you finish masonry you can give wheel and it will look transparent
bawhomp: I think we saw an opening and felt it got us to our end means
fe3333au: send us a proposal in writing and our game gurus will put it through the abacus and we will end up with something beautiful
bawhomp: Now I feel horrible
fe3333au: good :-D
bawhomp: OK here's my thoughts...
fe3333au: so did you party with TNT yet?
bawhomp: blank them
bawhomp: they have not even responded to us.
fe3333au: we had same prob with Nuts
bawhomp: I mean ZERO return call.
bawhomp: What's up with that? How does that help them?
fe3333au: Idiots! both of them
bawhomp: No we are!
bawhomp: :-D
fe3333au: we are another breed of idiot ... those that celebrate it ... the others are not even aware ;-)
bawhomp: Idiot civants?
bawhomp: pun
fe3333au: he he he he
bawhomp: OK so what should we do?
bawhomp: We can direct donut at our whim.
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: My thoughts are they go HBR for their UU and fight...then monarchy.
fe3333au: they have basically woowhoed themselves with us ... my last etter was a copy of correspondence to them
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: Let's play good cop bad cop
fe3333au: within MIA the brains have thought this also
bawhomp: You do the same with TNT
bawhomp: they hate us!
bawhomp: obviously
fe3333au: when we meet we shall see ... but PWE is a misanthrope
bawhomp: We have new names for others on their team
fe3333au: Could we say that we think KISS is helping Nuts to TNT?
bawhomp: Strider=Strident and Donsig =Duncecap
fe3333au: he he I anly use PWE
fe3333au: actually what do you call me????
bawhomp: The problem with that is they are close.
bawhomp: Fe
bawhomp: An honorary idiot to be honest
fe3333au: I sometimes call skippy with a beer ref
fe3333au: I blush now
fe3333au: so we also sent you a proposal about not popping huts 5 tiles from boraders
bawhomp: I don't real understand all that...
fe3333au: waiting for your responce to that one
bawhomp: I stayed out of that one cuz I don't see it being necessary...but that's just me.
bawhomp: Do you?
fe3333au: Well Tindrummer brought it up
bawhomp: I think we are good with it.
fe3333au: and I though that it would be good if this constraint applied to both parties
bawhomp: I haven't commented on it but we will do it.
fe3333au: Our team had a problem with the administrators being judges
fe3333au: *some of our team
bawhomp: Our team needs outside counsel to talk in public threads
fe3333au: ??
bawhomp: There's too much bullhooey flying around that's useless tit for tat
fe3333au: in the UN
bawhomp: rules
fe3333au: PWE
bawhomp: I can't understand half the fling Donsig says.
bawhomp: Nothing less than 100 words
fe3333au: My ref to admin judges is that they would tell KISS if MIA popped hut 5 tiles from your known boarders and visa versa
bawhomp: I don't see barbs being an issue
bawhomp: again that's just me.
bawhomp: Seems pretty complex
fe3333au: I like to keep option of not popping Barb Hut cos our military needs practce
fe3333au: Have you seen any Barb Huts btw? ... we have not
fe3333au: But Barb Hut was add on ... Goody huts is the big issue for writing that proposal
bawhomp: villages or huts?
fe3333au: Barbarian camps, Huts, nests, ... area where barbarians hang out
fe3333au: we have seen only Goody Huts
bawhomp: one camp
bawhomp: we popped it for 25g
fe3333au: so there are around ...
bawhomp: They're out there.
bawhomp: Horses coming once donut finishes hbr
fe3333au: so we will tell you when we discover a barb 5 tiles from your boarder ... visa versa ... and you will then give orders leave it alone or kill ... visa versa
bawhomp: ok.
fe3333au: yes it will be good for the other continent
fe3333au: so if you are happy with the wording as is ... I will draw a parchment to that effect
bawhomp: OK. Send it through and Tubby will post it in the forum tomorrow.
fe3333au: You will PM a proposal to us about the tech trading and how it will work including what we give each other etc ... yes
fe3333au: and when
bawhomp: We already had it drawn up but didn't send it for some reason.
fe3333au: then our boffins will muse and scratch at it ... and we will send back
bawhomp: I guess I was looking for you today and you were'nt online
bawhomp: By not having to research CoL it will accelerate our capabilities
fe3333au: sure you will trade it for masonary ...
fe3333au: so it looks legit
bawhomp: Yes I would say writing first
fe3333au: But send us your future trading and how you think our respective research paths will happen
bawhomp: we can also tell them you gave us gold for things too.
fe3333au: true ... so how open are you guys with Nuts?
bawhomp: I think we'll do republic and you guys do lit, mapmaking.
bawhomp: They were fine with us.
bawhomp: Aussie
bawhomp: Robi
bawhomp: they talked beer
fe3333au: he has only dealt with Ken
bawhomp: AK's favorite
bawhomp: It was tubby, ak and mistfit
fe3333au: interesting ... I sent all previous correspondence to AK as well (I think) so he knew how we were going with hardball ...
fe3333au: anyway ... if in future I am not around ... like this weekend
fe3333au: you guys should try Ken or Emp or Gen_W or Peter_Grimes
bawhomp: Ok...tail between his legs...
fe3333au: no worries with me ... these things happen ... and
fe3333au: it may be beneficial that Nuts think they have found a best buddy
fe3333au: in you guys
bawhomp: I do think it's best for both of us.
bawhomp: We get to where we want even faster.
fe3333au: maybe we will be able to do something similar with TNT
bawhomp: We may have overpaid.
fe3333au: Myst was way over ...
bawhomp: in beakers it was not
fe3333au: glad you didn't have Wheel ;-)
bawhomp: we actually got the better end of the deal in beakers
fe3333au: What goss you get from them?
fe3333au: How did war start?
bawhomp: goss?
fe3333au: gossip
fe3333au: Oz slang
bawhomp: they said they were starting to tech trade and tnt attacked.
fe3333au: did they lose workers as well as warriors
bawhomp: tnt has a slave
fe3333au: he he he
fe3333au: I like that
fe3333au: How strong are TNT?
bawhomp: stronger than us and we are average with you. so both are building miltary.
fe3333au: greater than 8 units
fe3333au: Nuts are also Average ... but you already know that now ;-)
bawhomp: i thought nuts we strong to you
bawhomp: and us
fe3333au: Both you and Nuts average
bawhomp: really?
fe3333au: unless i read it wrong
bawhomp: they better get busy.
bawhomp: here's provo's comments in the turntracker
fe3333au: waiting for better units to produce
bawhomp: Turn46 sent to MIA, happy new millenium, our good Doughnuts
fe3333au: he he he
fe3333au: they really ****ed themselves
fe3333au: every time ... we had to chase them to open a dialogue
fe3333au: every time we had to ask what they thought of our deal
fe3333au: if their words had been friendlier they could have gotton Wheel sooner
bawhomp: I don't understand it.
bawhomp: and TNT either.
bawhomp: why not open a line of communication?
bawhomp: what's the downside?
fe3333au: Robi did let slip ... and I think i sent this to you guyz as well

... that they have a faction which were hard sellers
fe3333au: disorganised?
fe3333au: or focused on TNT
bawhomp: all they had to do is say hi
fe3333au: they did initially say hi ... but after that ...
bawhomp: Not TNT with us.
fe3333au: it was like we had no IM contacts or AIm or any quick form
fe3333au: Ettiquette for me is I travel into your territory ... I must say hi
fe3333au: as you did with us
bawhomp: We are in their territory.
bawhomp: We see their iron hooked up
fe3333au: and you sent a greeting
bawhomp: immortals!
fe3333au: they obviously don't care
fe3333au: feel they have already won the game
bawhomp: How about we plant some GS next to their capital?
fe3333au: They do suspect that we are friends though
bawhomp: who?
fe3333au: GS?
bawhomp: Gallic swords
fe3333au: who is TNT suspect KISS and MIA friends
fe3333au: he he he
bawhomp: TNT doesn't know anybody as of right now
bawhomp: they are at war with donut and they won't talk to us.
bawhomp: you haven't met them. Right?
fe3333au: Maybe they will repond to us ... we are still looking for them
bawhomp: it will take time.
bawhomp: you are almost better finding them along donuts coast
fe3333au: May well have to do that
fe3333au: but will mean another boat
bawhomp: The reason our letter wasn't sent was my fault because I wanted to add that we need to keep things out of donuts thinking.
bawhomp: did that make any sense what I just said?
fe3333au: e-mail for skippy mentioned that
fe3333au: But not that you had made trade
bawhomp: we were waiting to send the letter because I wanted to word it that we need to make it look transparent.
bawhomp: tubby had it ready this morning. my bad
fe3333au: You really are a naughty boy ;-)
bawhomp: it was not intentional.
fe3333au: already said and understood
bawhomp: ok i feel bad though.
fe3333au: most if not all of MIA will read the truth in your words
bawhomp: we should have filled you in much earlier.
fe3333au: That is also a truism :-D
bawhomp: I think we were too excited that we both get republic that much faster and you don't need to research CoL
bawhomp: and us philo.
fe3333au: They actually had us palying aginst each other ... this should NEVER happen AGAIN !!!
bawhomp: ok
bawhomp: Tubby being tubby saw us getting the better end of the deal
fe3333au: but we are possibly stronger in the hidden alliance now ... so that is good !!!
bawhomp: They want to co research so we need to figure out what we should recommend.
bawhomp: Do you think they'd go for monarchy?
fe3333au: Confide and get our input ... is the best thing so that MIA will fill in the other techs
bawhomp: Right....tail thing again
bawhomp: Are you going to post this?
fe3333au: yes ... but i edit to gether so it makes sence and with headings ... is there something you wish not posted
bawhomp: oh i don't know.
fe3333au: I never post personal stuff
bawhomp: Not really.
fe3333au: so you will post us the master plan so we can mull over it ... this will outline the Nuts part and our part
bawhomp: just a fyi from our last turn...check are weak vs. TNT & D'nut and are average vs MIA
bawhomp: Yes we will. We would like them to finish hbr. The question is whether you should start on mapmaking or lit?
fe3333au: I like lit ... does that mean embassies?
bawhomp: lit mean libraries.
fe3333au: when can embassies happen?
bawhomp: CoL
fe3333au: Oh
fe3333au: Actually if we get map ... does that give harbours?
fe3333au: thinking about trade here
fe3333au: we want some wine
bawhomp: galleys with maps
bawhomp: we have not hooked up excess but we can work on that for you.
fe3333au: so near future only way for us to trade is raod
bawhomp: raod?
fe3333au: *road
bawhomp: or coast
bawhomp: once the fog is cleared and there's a harbor
fe3333au: Oh right ... coastal ... we can get that soonish
bawhomp: mapmaking galleys and harbors
bawhomp: lit libraries
fe3333au: so MM may be a good one for us the research
bawhomp: CoL courthouse.
fe3333au: But Lit means faster reasearch
fe3333au: so will discuss with the boffins
bawhomp: libs are a research multiplier yes
bawhomp: here's my thoughts for donut
bawhomp: hbr
bawhomp: then either maths
fe3333au: maths is good war tech
bawhomp: yes i think maths because it leads to currency which means markets
fe3333au: and catapults
bawhomp: maths is good for them for cats
bawhomp: yes
fe3333au: They will go for that
bawhomp: ok
bawhomp: we need to convince tnt to go for poly to monarchy then
bawhomp: let me look up beakers real quick
fe3333au: take your time
bawhomp: ok maths 240 and currency 480
bawhomp: republic 840
bawhomp: lit 300, maps 369
bawhomp: 360
bawhomp: sorry
fe3333au: so we go for Lit and MM
fe3333au: you go for Rep
bawhomp: it would be cheaper if you went maths and currency
bawhomp: but they need maths
fe3333au: but don't you want Nuts to go that way
bawhomp: kind of yes because we want a long drawn out war, right?
fe3333au: yep
bawhomp: then galleys, harbors and libraries are more important to us both
fe3333au: we will really have to nut (excuse pun) the hidden tech swapping between us ... so TNT and NUts suspect nothing
bawhomp: I know but some of it can be explained by normal trading.
fe3333au: maybe with some we will both have to research .. don't know ...
bawhomp: we got a tech from a hut so we can say "we got a tech from a hut"
fe3333au: yep
bawhomp: gpt
bawhomp: and gold
bawhomp: luxs
bawhomp: as far as donut knows you took writing off the table.
fe3333au: Oh thats good ... instead of swapping lux ... have tech involved as well
bawhomp: so we traded it with you for masonry
fe3333au: and what you swap with us is none of their business