Diplo for MIA

[Daghdha]

Let's see if I get this straight (fat chanse): We will cancel our deal with Nuts saying they have moved behind our back and that we will have no further buissness with them. MIA, with whom they have a deal soon to be inked, are their new buddies as far as they know. MIA will play along in this giving the impression that they rather deal with Nuts than us (and our aggressive UU). Every tech that MIA gets from Nuts will be sent to us in excange for CoL, Philo and Rep. and that will be HBR-Math-Currency.
-What will MIA give to Nuts? Lit, MM and Masonry?
-Who will do Construction and Poly?
-Does "leaving Nuts in AA" mean they have to research it themselves since it is not part of the MIA-Nuts deal and we won't trade.

 

[Coinich]

Will someone tell me why they think that a Mounted Warrior is NOT an aggresive UU.

I'll tell you why. It's all spin. They are trying to downplay their UU, by "failing" to mention it has offensive skills. Further, they are focusing the attention of our friends on ONLY the offensive capabilities of our UU. Based on what I'm reading, I'm seeing D'nut slowly trying to undermine our relationship with MIA.

It's all spin. :shakehead

 

[Whomp]

The tangled web we weave gets a little more tangled.

A few things I've thought of...
We can use stall tactics and voters rights as our excuse.

--The stallBooti's attempt at getting TNT to trade masonry is coming up with blanks. This will give MIA a chance to ink a deal with Donut.

--Voters rights Well after much consideration our team has decided to wait to see what deals pop up for republic. Considering it is THE most important tech in the AA we feel we can wait a bit. Then once the Donut inks the deal with MIA we wait a turn or two and ink a deal with MIA for CoL, philo and republic for MIA's research (map make and lit) and Donuts research (HBR, maths and currency). We may have to expose that we are agreeable with MIA at this point since Donut tried to play us and we are looking for partners that won't play us.

 

[Whomp]

x post........

 

[Whomp]

Chat with Classical_Hero and Fe3333au. He was nice enough to edit our discussions. With the warrior our curragh saw it seems to me both TNT and Donut are in a GA since we dropped to #3 in Mfd goods. Though I looked at the save and we were #2 in my view and #3 in Bugs view. I'm almost 100% TNT is already in a GA. We may consider establishing a embassy for 50g over the next couple turns.

Spoiler :

Fe3333au talking about options.
1. KISS Honour Agreement
> (HBR, Maths, Currancy) for Nuts (Republic, Masonry)

2. KISS Dishonour Agreement
> (HBR, Maths, Currancy) for Nuts (Masonry, Republic)

3. MIA Honour Agreement
> (HBR, Maths, Currancy) for Nuts (Masonry, MM, Lit)

4. MIA Honour Agreement
> (HBR, Maths, Currancy) for Nuts (Masonry, MM, Lit)

5. No Trading

classicalhero on-line so we begin in new venue

<hello's and frivolous banter>

bawhomp: so what do you think about what i said?
fe3333au: k back to business
classicalhero7: yes, it is better to talk busines
fe3333au: We are discussing the various options we have to trade with Nuts ... from the pov from NUts and also which techs we are willing to let TNT get if Nuts give all techs away to live
bawhomp: they say it's just the opposite


TNT still mute ?
classicalhero7: I would like to know what KISS have been able to do with TNT
bawhomp: zero ... nada ... zippo
fe3333au: isolationist probably
bawhomp: GLib
fe3333au: They don't have writing yet
bawhomp: pre build
classicalhero7: I really see know need for the Great Library
fe3333au: TNT getting Glibrary
bawhomp: they are going despotic GA and mining hills in despot ... and not talking to anyone
bawhomp: we tried twice
classicalhero7: I have sent TNT an email and I have PMed Vbraun
bawhomp: they are hush hush
fe3333au: This may help
Techs we have that they don't
>The Wheel
>Warrior Code
>Ceremonial Burial ... Mysticism
>Writing ... Philosophy ... Code of Laws

Techs we both have
>Bronze Working ... Iron Working
>Alphabet
>Masonry
>Pottery

So they are not going for a specific Government

bawhomp: so they go writing lit...finish Glib and voila...all techs
classicalhero7: It seems they are playing very despotic

Trading Options
fe3333au: So if we do get them to talk ... and offer trade? ... Do we swap Writing to them?
bawhomp: for why?
fe3333au: or do we agree to attack the city that is building the Greatwonder
bawhomp: we attack both of them ... they'll both be gassed

Lets talk War
classicalhero7: so offically, does KISS want to remove both TNT an NUTs?
bawhomp: officially or whomp?
classicalhero7: Is that the rumblings of the whole team or so far just a few players
fe3333au: both
bawhomp: I think everyone's fed up with tnt ... donuts we don't really know ... but might as well hit a weakling when they're down.
fe3333au: You know thay are willing to form alligences with your preceived enemies ... behind your back
classicalhero7: The way I see it is that if we eliminate just TNT then it will mean that NUTs will be the big benefactors of this arrangement
fe3333au: Yes we should attack both
bawhomp: yep
fe3333au: Bigger force for TNT ... mopup force for Nuts
bawhomp: republic, 10 boats, 8 hops, 12 swords our 8 spears and 12 GS. ... pound
fe3333au: I can't wait to see war ... as peaceful player ... i will learn much
classicalhero7: war is so much fun
bawhomp: I think we'd like a monster SOD landing in front of TNT.

Rule Discussion
bawhomp: What are the rules on F4 prints?
fe3333au: Rules ... Screenshots wouyld be same a minimaps ... therefore Nav required
classicalhero7: I think it would be disallowed
bawhomp: classical in the isdg the discussion was to have 2 or 3 no offensives as a ROP

Back to initial Discussion Topic ... Nut Trade
fe3333au: So I guess what you are saying is that KISS will not deal Republic with Nuts because it is a very crucial technology ... yes?
bawhomp: they tried to backdoor us...blank them!
fe3333au: So any dealing with Nuts would come from MIA ... ie we may trade Masonry onto them for HBR and cash ... play very very hardball ... then pass HBR to KISS
bawhomp: the only benefit of doing a deal with them is we gain their techs.
fe3333au: we as GREENS
bawhomp: and they don't get republic...a long research cycle
fe3333au: yes
classicalhero7: I really so no benefit from dealing with Nuts right now
bawhomp: so if we made a deal for maths and currency the only things left in the AA are construction and poly ... then it's pikes, bows and MI
classicalhero7: knights should be the way to go

Official Stand
fe3333au: so officially you will tell them to **** off ...
bawhomp: Yes Irongold cuz they were dealing with you. ... but honestly the best scenario is where you get 3 and they give 3 ... no republic
fe3333au: We will only trade them on our terms though ... sick of their condescending attitude
bawhomp: let them self research then ... or turn it off and cash upgrade and fight
fe3333au: So what KISS would like is that MIA pull their pride in ... and be seen as buddies with Nuts until the crunch time
bawhomp: ask them what they prefer ... FE if you don't want to do it that's fine.
fe3333au: just looking at the best sceanario for both our teams
bawhomp: best is them researching for both of us

Great Library Mechanics
fe3333au: Great Library only works if two other teams have the tech yes?
bawhomp: yep brb
fe3333au: so TNT getting GreatLib is not the end of the world ... by the time it is built it will be curtains for them ... we should time our strike to correspond to TNT being unwilling to lose mega shields when we attack ... they will have one less city to produce military unts

Masonry the Key
bawhomp: here's another thing...masonry is the key
bawhomp: and here's why
classicalhero7: Granaries
bawhomp: nope ... negotiating tool
fe3333au: Walls
classicalhero7: That is pottery, Idiot
bawhomp: no we're idiots that's moron
classicalhero7: lol
fe3333au: yeah idiot ... see Whomp your meme is spreading LOL

No Trade option
bawhomp: k so here's another idea ... you don't trade with them.
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: and we can't get masonry cuz you think we're dealing with them
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: so we tell them to research the same as you ... two things happen
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: they waste their time and those two techs get cheaper to research if they finish first ... or they make the deal you want and we get 3 extra techs
fe3333au: I'd prefer to use them to research for us
bawhomp: me too ... and then they still have to research a govt
fe3333au: I think that TNT will not stop until Nuts are RIP ... agreed?

Nut prespective on War
bawhomp: according to donut they got em by the balls
fe3333au: big revealing statemnet for the Nuts
bawhomp: enough MW's will kill immortals any day
fe3333au: or are Nuts saying they got PWE by his balls
bawhomp: I didn't teach them that...it's our secret

Nut City Lost???
fe3333au: oh I see ... but havn't Nuts lost a city?
bawhomp: earlier right? ... not by immortal
fe3333au: two/three turns ago
bawhomp: by warrior ... according to what?
fe3333au: Daghie said ... it was from F-11
bawhomp: doesn't sound right ... they would be #1 in mfd goods and they are not
fe3333au: Area of control maybe
bawhomp: if tnt hit with immortals they'd be #1 in mfd goods because of the GA. ... mfd goods is uncorrupted shields which increase during a GA.
fe3333au: Can't find refernece still looking ... but recall Dags saying he thinks that recently Nuts lost a city ... so if happened probably warrior
bawhomp: couldn't now ... no the city was lost with the worker when they got backstabbed at the beginning
fe3333au: k ... my mistake
bawhomp: they may be pop rushing though ... watch F11 over the next 10 turns. when we are 3 and 4 in mfd goods the war is full blown
fe3333au: Here we are ... reason I think that another city lost

Found Source
fe3333au: sixpackholiday: no hints, just me guessing ... and the latest power curve. I may be wrong but i think TNT has whacked a Nut city
bawhomp: could be possible ... then they are stupid for not asking for help
fe3333au: we were discussing dags concerns that Nuts would cave in and give all techs to TNT ... But if Tubby and you didn't pick it up ... then probably not tru
bawhomp: they would show more deperation methinks.
fe3333au: never have they in all our dealings
bawhomp: their score has slowed but that could be attributed to a bunch of things
fe3333au: don't know ... bit confused now ... So do you think they will be matching TNT oe even bettering them?
bawhomp: I think once they put MW's on the battlefield TNT is screwed.
fe3333au: TNT are the top world population ... does that support the Nut losing city argument?
bawhomp: nope ... They are not the top pop btw ... you have more TNT intel than us ... we have only just met them
bawhomp: all F11
fe3333au: top according to our F-11
classicalhero7: as they are a shut shop
bawhomp: no we are #1
fe3333au: you would have had big pop jump this turn then ... our f-11 says they are 29 %world pop ... area KISS is top
bawhomp: how do you see what their pop is?
fe3333au: F-8 Victory Screen Status
bawhomp: I should look at the save cuz that is not how i'm reading it.
fe3333au: Has dags not mentioned it?
bawhomp: he may have looked the turn before me. ... brb ... i'll look at the save real quick ok?
fe3333au: k

Whomp Back ... TNT may be in GA
classicalhero7: have you had a look?
bawhomp: It is likely that TNT is in a GA ... if the f11 doesn't change the next two turns we will establish an embassy
bawhomp: then we'll know for sure
classicalhero7: it is important to know what we wil be facing ... That way we can know if they have just warriors or Immortals
bawhomp: if we are #2 in mfd good or #3 next two turns then they are both in a GA. ... We are #2 now
classicalhero7: So do both teams have access to both techs and Resource for there UU's then?
bawhomp: It seems with Rik's map everything is pretty available
classicalhero7: Too available

Nut have HBR
fe3333au: Nuts still need to complete HBR ...
bawhomp: do they have hbr?
classicalhero7: I do not hink they do
fe3333au: I can only surmise not yet ... because they are not madly trying to grab Masonry from us or you (they think we traded with you remember) ... but not many turns to go
classicalhero7: I'll have a look at the latest Nut chat
fe3333au: and I will argue that we play hardball with them ... and that they waste at least 1 turn in research ... But not my decision
bawhomp: i think tnt may have got em once
fe3333au: ie. to get to GA?
classicalhero7: They apparently have HBR
fe3333au: Nuts?
classicalhero7: yes, from the chat it appears so, unless they are wanting to trade for it without having it
fe3333au: Re: HBR ... I am not convinced ... but we shall see when and if they trade with us for Masonry
classicalhero7: My info is from the chat and from that it seems that they have it
bawhomp: i think they were right there on research IIRC

We Love the King may be indicator of GA ... NO
fe3333au: Question can visitors see fireworks above a city in celbration?
classicalhero7: yes
fe3333au: OK ... so if we see fireworks in TNT or Nut cities ... good indication that GA ... is that logical (or am I confusing things)
classicalhero7: not quite because fireworks will only tell if a city is in WLTK mode
bawhomp: yep
fe3333au: what triggers WLTK days
bawhomp: only way for WLTK is a victory ... GA
classicalhero7: WLTK is triggered by having no unhappy citizens and at least equal # of happy citizens to content
bawhomp: did you see WLTK?
fe3333au: no ... just thinking
bawhomp: oh ... pretty hard to get early game without luxs
fe3333au: but will keep eyes peeled
classicalhero7: I do not think that any team would be able to have WLTK ... ATM
fe3333au: yes you are correct

Embassy Talk
classicalhero7: We will only be able to tell if they are in GA is by having an embassy with the two nations
fe3333au: yes
bawhomp: let's wait a turn or two ... let's see if we drop to #3 ... couple turns

<Refugee discussion>

<Discussion of MTDG for IV ... same teams>
fe3333au: Civ4 ... I like MIA ... but I'm not against being assigned to another team ... I like RNG ... don't tell Mel
bawhomp: i know but same teams?
fe3333au: I will play and have fun either way
classicalhero7: I would prefer to be placed acording o the will of Mellet ... Meleet
fe3333au: good point Classical ... It was a moment of random weakness
classicalhero7: LOL

CivAnon Site
fe3333au: http://www.civanon.org/ a site that could help us all

Skippyshutt has entered the room.

More Info from KISS about those crazy war mongers
bawhomp: whoa we caught a donut warrior on the coast!! ... ready to pop barbs!
Skippyshutt: which coast?
bawhomp: tnt ...
Skippyshutt: are u sure, the satelite imagery isn't up to the usual standards?
bawhomp: bugsy played the save
Skippyshutt: tnt isn't dead? ... bugs is slipping

Both in GA ???!!!
bawhomp: they may be in a GA btw
Skippyshutt: they should be if they used IM against the nuts
bawhomp: they both i think ... we dropped in mfd good to #3

Confirmed
bawhomp: it's done!
Skippyshutt: what's done? the deal?
bawhomp: they are beating the crap out of each other!
classicalhero7: If they both are in a GA then it would just mean that both teams will just cause greater pain to each other and we should not be worried at all
bawhomp: GA for both ... it's despotic too!!
Skippyshutt: he he ho ho ha ha. and idiotic
classicalhero7: it is waisted
fe3333au: Yeah ... party
Skippyshutt: toga
fe3333au: Go the GREEN
Skippyshutt: hoplites hopping along ... or is MIA the greeks? ... and nuts the MW?
bawhomp: go green ... simple
classicalhero7: We have the best defense
bawhomp: yep
Skippyshutt: so nuts are the MW?
classicalhero7: Only TNT have a better offence ... We do not need a resource for our UU and that is good when we get to the other continent
bawhomp: TNT has the worst offense
Skippyshutt: tnt is the most offensive
classicalhero7: Don't they have Immortals as there UU?
bawhomp: I'll take MW's any day
classicalhero7: Speed is very good
bawhomp: They can stand away from a Immortal attack

 

[Whomp]

Well we have some conflict. We need to decide quickly how we want to proceed.

It seems MIA is headed towards the spices as well. We can do one of two things.

1. Settle and spur conflict. Though we are closer the timing isn't the greatest and the city will easily be attacked by us later if necessary. With their elite warrior on the border we are not in a good position.

2. Let them have it, road it and deal with it later. There is incense we haven't settled that's closer to our cities that could be used with that settler by going west.

In either case, we both went further to settle than necessary. Us to the dyes and they to the spices.

Spoiler :

I start by giving Irongold a hard time about their new player
bawhomp: G'Morning Pot Stirrer
fe3333au: hi
bawhomp: I see people didn't like your cubical humour
bawhomp: Beorn did
fe3333au: Some poeple just don't get it ... do you see squares or is it just my computer?
fe3333au: and he is using Japanese
bawhomp: no squares
fe3333au: ooops ... I guess I'll have to continue to call him cube until he picks something else or sends a screenie
fe3333au: ;-)
Then a discussion about gifting cities
fe3333au: Gifting City is against rules
bawhomp: I see cubes now
fe3333au: 1.8 Enjoining Teams

Description: No team or individual is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade multiple cities with the intent of joining teams to destroy another team and keep both teams alive to survive to the end. If a team decides to drop out however, its players are allowed to change teams as permitted under Section 0.3.

Definition: A team trading one or more cities to another team for the purpose of either granting that team an advantage (premature contact with another civ, map information, etc.), or denying an aggressor the right of conquest.
bawhomp: weird
bawhomp: So no helping either with cities
fe3333au: yep ... although it is a wierd rule
fe3333au: One MIA is definitely NOT going to debate in UN about
fe3333au: What if Nuts trade a city with you for tech?
bawhomp: Barter?
fe3333au: maybe
fe3333au: But I suggest you run anything by GA or RM privately before anything
fe3333au: Our Warrior did well deBarbing the Territory for you ;-)
Then he discusses our settler
fe3333au: We notice an unexcorted Settler ... is this vulnerable one travelling far?
bawhomp: no he has an escort coming
bawhomp: we hope to start hunting with GS soon
fe3333au: GS?
bawhomp: gallic swords
fe3333au: cool ... is he settling soon .. if so we can hang around to guard him?
bawhomp: the settler?
bawhomp: yes
fe3333au: or he waiting for the escort ... we see at least one more Barb
bawhomp: spices
bawhomp: there's a warrior to his south
bawhomp: slinger played the save so I wonder if he continued north with the warrior
Issues
fe3333au: Ummm ... this is a problem as we have already sent our own Settler that way for this same reason
bawhomp: aha
fe3333au: so have you found any other source of this rare (we think) unique lux?
bawhomp: nope
bawhomp: that's the spot
fe3333au: You alreday have the other only source of another lux
Tensions?
fe3333au: so this has potential to create a tense scenario ... don't you think
fe3333au: so we are 2 turns behind you in this
bawhomp: i think we will need to discuss
bawhomp: There's no reason for conflict
fe3333au: I agree ... now not time though ... will need to have a chat
bawhomp: I will mention your settler
bawhomp: We will need to decide fast
fe3333au: regarding conflict I totally agree ... it would be seriously igorish
fe3333au: yes
fe3333au: I will post this chat and start debate ...
bawhomp: me too
fe3333au: This is the scenario that Daghie was alluding too ...
bawhomp: a border type conflict?
fe3333au: What the best scenario is ... shrae our lands ... and open slather in the other continent
fe3333au: *share
bawhomp: agreed
bawhomp: I may be able to persuade the team to move to incense which is closed
bawhomp: close
fe3333au: We are seriously restricted with you taking that only source of lux considering you have the other ... I see bad things
fe3333au: so do we leave it at that?
bawhomp: It's not worth the conflict
bawhomp: I will discuss
fe3333au: I agree ... Green Aliance is fair to both sides
bawhomp: I think the problem with the dyes was were not on the best of terms at the time
fe3333au: explain?
bawhomp: Ken made things difficult until you stepped in
fe3333au: It may have been my fault ... not sure I actually remember this being an issue was it first chat?
bawhomp: I sent a nasty letter
bawhomp: after a 2nd discussion
fe3333au: And dyes were mentioned?
fe3333au: I only recall ... techs
bawhomp: No we weren't sure we could trust you so we wanted to control the dyes
fe3333au: And good move on your part ... well played ... as we would have done
fe3333au: anyway ... we have a situation developing which we should address after consultation ...
fe3333au: agreeed
bawhomp: Yes I will post it.
bawhomp: I don't think this should be a problem
fe3333au: me either ... your words as always that settled my uneasyness
fe3333au: I must go ... have a goodone ... we have no update from either TNT nor Nut side of things
fe3333au: Have mentioned to TNT we suspect that Nuts got Masonry from a hut unless they are duping us
fe3333au: that way it may ease the paranoia from them
bawhomp: Cool
bawhomp: Ok have a good day Mate
fe3333au: cya

 

[gmaharriet]

It seems like if we want to continue our peaceful cooperation with MIA, we could let them have it and perhaps arrange to exchange lux for lux with each other so long as our alliance lasts and so that we each have the benefit of both. Maybe we could also agree to work on roading toward each other for trading. We might also have to negotiate something with MIA regarding trades of lux with the other continent (if any).

Too bad we can't just exchange cities with them, since the spices are closer and easier for us to defend in the future. I can't see going to war with MIA until D'nuts and TNT are both gone.

 

[Kickbooti]

My download of of cartography room isn't working, so I can't get the latest maps. But not having accurate or complete information has never stopped me from giing my opinion.

If the spices are arranged around the mountain like the dyes are, why can't we share? Just settle on opposite corners.

Let's face it, we'll be directly competing against MIA at some point, and lux will be an important factor. That's a given. It is also a give (IMHO) that our amicable relationship is very important - we don't want to go the way of TNT/Nuts in a crazy, regressive conflict at this point.

Why don't we tell them that we love them, but the 'young, hothead, idiots' don't want to rely stricly on good will. We both settle and make it a demilitarized zone. Agree to no more than two units in the city/region and allow each team to station a warior permanently as an observer. Make the deal last 50 - 75 turns.

If West Berlin could exist through the cold war, we should be able to get a spice city on the green continent.

That's my middle of the road opinion.

If push comes to shove I think that conflict at this point is more harmful to us than loosing the spice. We won't be roading it for awhile anyway. If they won't play ball, when the time comes, we'll get our tobasco...

 

[Bede]

Best outcome is the win-win.

Let them settle the spice fields and offer a dyes for spices deal, straight up. Remember, KISS.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Let's go for a two city settlement. We'll get there first and settle so that they can get two sources as well. I don't think we want to give in, but we also don't want to share.

 

[Kickbooti]

Here are my personal priorities in order of importance...

1) Keep the working agreement with MIA
2) KISS - Bede is right, it isn't workable otherwise
3) I want cumin!

My twin fears are relying on MIA goodwill long term for the spices and having our worker's priorities shifting away from building the core to roading the dyes to honor a lux trade.

I'm not experienced against human oponents, but if we can make the two city option fly, I still like it.

I would also look at switching Whomper (dyes) to temple. Maybe we could get a culture expansion before they could send a settler...

POTKISS knows MIA better than anyone. We have to keep a heartfelt peace. BUT, if we can have that and our spices too, I'm a happy campre.

 

[Whomp]

It seems we need some additional input.

A few thoughts.....

• Moving to phase two --We are entering it they are not. As Grahamiam has said it's time to turn down the settler pump and turn up the worker and military pumps. Work on the economy. We could potentially have their spices roaded, from our dyes, to our core before they can.
• Roads are good--the more roads that are built along that jungle highway the better for us. Why not let them road for us a bit. Why?
• Speed--The more roads they build in our direction the better. We have speed with power they do not. With speed our conquest of this city will be lightning quick.
• Tactics--If we share the spices we will need to build those roads too. Let them do all the work to the spices. They will need to consider one of two options.
  1. Stretch a road all across the jungle. Good for us.
  2. Build a coastal city to connect the spices. This would require transporting workers and military up the coast. A major undertaking either way for two corrupt pieces of junk that can easily be cut off.
  This also opens up a two prong military option.
  1. Seaborne--which would have been the only likely option without roads.
  2. Road based.
• The other continent has them. With the other teams being gassed there's the possibility we can get spices there since it's obvious this is not a priority. We could use a search party once galleys come in.

So I ask what are the spices really worth? I say send the settler to the incense and let them do some work for us.

 

[Kickbooti]

"The only thing worse than working with your allies is working without them." Winston Churchill.

If letting them have the spice is necessary, it's necessary.

Remember, the jungle makes our speed advantage a moot point (unless we road to it anyway).

I'd still like to see a split. Maybe allow them to put a colony on the dyes and we put one on the spice.

But as I said, the alliance is more important at this time.

 

[barbslinger]

I'm into splitting them with them. We need the road down there either way and our worker pump will take care of that.
If they come back with "You have the dyes, give us the spices" we have a problem. They take the split or screw 'em. We take it all. We have faster GS and they are coming online soon. If they get antsy we could undoubtably take them out.

 

[Whomp]

Well we seem split here. I think this will create some hostility if we don't give them the spices. We could counteroffer by letting them settle some of the dyes. This would be to our advantage since they'd have to send a settler there and make roads to both sites.

Here's the lux situation. I don't recall seeing gems or silks so my best guess is those are on the other continent like we have dyes and spices.

That leaves us with wines, furs, incense and dyes (they ivory, furs and incense I think). With a market that's 6 happy faces with 4 luxs and 9 happy with 5 luxs. I still vote to let them have the spices so there's no border conflict and trade luxs with them until we conquer them. Economically the can't touch us IMO.

I say settle the oasis incense instead. We need to road in that direction anyhow.

FYI the dyes at Effing WR are 2 grass, 1 mountain, 1, hill, 2 desert and 3 jungle tiles away from SKWTD.
SKWTD is 4 jungle tiles from the spices.
Dunderhead is 2 grass, 2 marsh and 2 jungle tiles from the spices.

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

Well, denying them the spices is out of the question.

So, should we share the spices and dyes or, as Whomp suggested, let them have it all to themselves and we get the incense?

I'm leaning towards Whomp's plan. For one, it will develop more trust than sharing the resources would, I think.

I can't remember what the map looks like, but if the incense city would be in a better position than the spices one, my vote is definitely for letting them have the Spices, then we trade Spices for Dyes later on.

 

[Whomp]

We both have incense and it's just southwest IIRC of SKWTD. (Mirrored SE for them)

 

[barbslinger]

If we "give them" the spice which I think is crap, albeit I have no DEMO experience, there should be no free ride on the dyes. They pay for it!
I still think we should just ALLOW them to have 1 spice for free and we take the other 2. That is our goodwill gesture and that's a big one. They should be grateful that we are allowing them even that. We got there first dammit! If they gripe, tough, we will be getting into republic with an empire that can way outproduce them and has speed. We'll also be getting WW for the entire conflict.

 

[Pentium]

I agree with Slinger here. We can't just give it away. Either share it or sell it for a steep price.

 

[barbslinger]

Next thing that will happen is they'll complain that we developed our lands quicker and have more cities and maybe we should give them a few workers.
If we simply give them this they will roll over laughing at us. Giving them a piece of it is extreme goodwill.