Diplo for MIA

[Whomp]

OK well it's decision time. It sounds to me like they turned off research to cash rush units and this is one of the reasons they would like peace. On the one hand, as Crakie said, they haven't been focused on infrastructure so peace would give them some breathing room. On the other hand we're getting a pretty sweet deal and can also turn down research to cash rush some boats, since Donut is in anarchy, and kick off our GA against their weaker research partner. Ivory will be ours, if we start on TNT, and would give them WW like crazy while we'd be the only team in monarchy (or capable of switching to it).

Also I agree with Graham. Straight up peace that if either wants to try and renegotiate by turn 154 (164), fine.

Should we poll?

 

[Whomp]

Thoughts?
I'll try to keep it as simple as possible. Another thing...if people disagree with this please speak up. Crakie has voiced his opinion so please speak up.


Peace treaty agreement

Peace will last through turn 154. Extensions can be agreed to at any point in this agreement.
All units will "stand down" from their current aggressive actions.

Additional treaty agreement

• The Green Continent will be split in half for settlement. North and South.
• A Middle Age technology will be offered at half price by MIA to KISS that is not one of the two techs MIA received with TNT (per their agreement) nor a tech KISS is currently researching.
• Free ivory to KISS for 20 turns
• Capability within those 50 turns to settle the remaining dyes by KISS

.

 

[Crakie]

I agree with Whomp that this should be discussed, right now! This may be the single most important decision we make.

I have no fundamental objections against 'plan Whomp', but I am convinced we could get an even better treaty as a peace settlement

 

[Whomp]

I have no fundamental objections against 'plan Whomp', but I am convinced we could get an even better treaty as a peace settlement

Possibly so but after seeing our "combat calculations" Grahamiam ran I keep envisioning our lux cities being overrun by MI/hop combos and not being able to do a thing about it. In the meantime, they turn research off and cash rush and we crank research to the max just to get up to speed.

 

[gmaharriet]

I like the peace plan and agree with Grahamiam on no 5-turn notice. At the termination of the agreement we can renegotiate peace (or NOT).

 

[Kickbooti]

We need to decide what we are going to build on the other island, but I will vote for 'Whomping' TNT...

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm indifferent on the TNT war... But the MIA war ain't going anywhere right now. We just don't have the firepower to go against their UU. After Muskets become available we should be able to defend against their MDI. But that'll be about 40-50 turns.

I think that the peace deal should go through and agree on the 5 turns notice getting nixed

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

tubs, no disrespect, but by then we'll be talking about how we don't have enough force to stop their templars. We need a challenge. trebs/cats and MI/GS v hoplites. build the defenses and then go against someone.

 

[Tubby Rower]

AK... 50% survival rate is NOT good. If we were still strong vs them, then fine.. but we're not. They could bowl us over if they knew what to do. There are hoplites all over there land like ants on a picnic. There's no way we'd make it much past the initial cities without some help. We have 1 catapult and really need more if we were to try this.

I'm fine with a challenge but taking on MIA right now is suicide. I for one would like to attempt to win it instead of impaling ourselves on their phlanx.

 

[Bede]

We have achieved what we set out to do here without even drawing a sword.

Our objective was recompense for the deal with TNT and Whomp the Silver Tongued got that done. Not without a chorus of shield beating GS's maybe, but still a victory. Discount tech and free luxury sure look like the spoils of war to me.

I think we also accomplished something else by knocking them off their stride toward technolgy dominance.

If we had more stone throwing machines (cats/trebs) then I would say let's go take some MIA hide, but we don't. And without them the losses against hoplites and MDI would just be horrendous, turning our Golden Age into a blood bath as we would have to burn those lovely shields and all that gold just replacing our losses.

Now a little excursus against the Weak One might be just the ticket. Send enough force to scare them, then bloackade the coast. Do some damage to their terrain improvements, kill something with a GS, then ride the GA for infrastucture and science without having to worry too much about a counter threat.

 

[scoutsout]

If we had more stone throwing machines (cats/trebs) then I would say let's go take some MIA hide, but we don't.

That's just it, my good monk... we have something that'll do just as well.

Stone throwing machines do what? Knock hit points off advancing troops.

Retreating fast movers do what? Knock hit points off advancing troops.

Since we haven't had our GA yet, I say we do two things:

1. Build Gallic Swords
2. Appear weak somewhere...and invite MIA to "tea"... in OUR territory. Cut their stout little slow-movers to pieces... and move the party to THEIR house.

 

[barbslinger]

I don't like the idea that the continent won't soon be our's. I have NEVER played any CIV game where I went to war with an overseas continent before taking business at home. I like the the idea of 50/50 split but I think we lose in the backend of the deal. We have been been reduced to groping for a GA. If we take our time quit building GS NOW. The ages will pass and we will be left without KNIGHTs. MIA is worried. We are speedier. Maybe the waar will only last 4-7 turns. We will come out on top and be able to arrange a new line of 50%. Why are are following the words from MIA again. We did that before and now they out expanded us. We had this this game by the ba__s back then when they had no defense. Chamnix plays on this. I still say attack, slowly on all roads, due to his great hoplites, destroy his production, lux, resources and then take what we want.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Maybe the waar will only last 4-7 turns

Don't forget that this is a human that we are dealing with. I doubt that 4-7 turns of war would happen in this game unless someone is totally unprepared or completely demolished. They'd fight us until it's finished.

 

[Whomp]

Right now we are weak compared to MIA according to Donut's Robi. Since they've got a tech lead they've turned off research and cash rushed all the while we've been max researching.

The reason I suggested 50 turns is because it would get us to military equality. I for one have a lot more confidence in us fighting with knights, GS, MI, pikes/muskets and Trebs against Knights, MI, hops/muskets and Trebs.

The other part of this is the combined research rate. Donut and KISS will research faster to cavs than MIA and TNT. That's the military odds I'd like to see.

There's mixed views here. About 50/50. How should we proceed? Our first real vote?

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that a poll would us to see how much support either way has. I'll go with either although I'd rather see peace for a while longer between MIA & us. I would also like some others to start taking an active roll in playing the saves. One of the reasons why everything isn't in the best situation is that I've been playing a number of the saves. I can grow a civ but I have trouble getting it ready for war.

 

[scoutsout]

@Tubby: My schedule's a bit tight, but I don't mind helping for some turns. When are we due to play again? I'll grab a recent save tomorrow and have a look if you think that'll help.

 

[Tubby Rower]

There is a save out there currently. it has to be played (or an extension requested) by 7:42AM EST tomorrow morning.

 

[scoutsout]

I could play it later this evening if you'd simply like another player to put eyes on it. Which of these threads is most important for me to read before playing? Is there any diplomatic stuff to be done within the game on this turn, or just internal stuff?

 

[Tubby Rower]

scout,

Dept. of Turnplay is where the latest posts on what's going on

The first post in that thread has the instructions on how to get the save and the passwords

The Turnplay Log is our thread for keeping up with what is going on and a summary of the turn should be posted there.

The ending save (actually end the turn then select "Save & Exit") should be emailed to team doughnut, Regentman and Ginger_ale. All are contacts in our gmail account

Then post in the Turn Tracker thread to let the other teams that we have played and it is off to the D'nuts/

 

[Whomp]

Scout here's the "how to PBEM thread".

How to PBEM thread