Diplo for MIA

[scoutsout]

If someone could request an extension until noon EST tomorrow, I can play it in the morning... otherwise, I'll check the next save and get acclimated to the situation. (It's been a long day, and I'm not sure I could get focused enought...)

 

[Whomp]

Done and done Scout. I've requested an extension through tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Crakie]

There's mixed views here. About 50/50. How should we proceed? Our first real vote?

I did not see a poll yet. But if it's true that we're weak now, I change my vote to a peace deal with MIA.

 

[scoutsout]

I did not see a poll yet. But if it's true that we're weak now, I change my vote to a peace deal with MIA.

It's not so much that we're "weak"... but the terrain in the most likely spot for a fight (the two lux towns in the jungle) really favors MIA's unit mix over ours at this juncture.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

NOOOOO, noooo, no voting. we're idiots, not politicians. Let's blather some more

 

[Whomp]

Well with Scout and Crakie on the side of the peace deal (for now) we seem to be going the peace route.

 

[Crakie]

You guys have a bigger postcount. I respect that. Peace deal it is

 

[Whomp]

OK a few things. We agreed that Grinder can work his way home by taking their roads and their territory if they can plant a hoplite on our side of the mountain. I am trying to pin him down on which specific tech they will be offering. I'd like it to be chivalry so we can rush to cavs instead. We also need to work the map for landmark points for a 50/50 border. The last thing is I made a gentelman's agreement to have non aggression for 5 turns while this is being finalized.

Spoiler :

bawhomp (7:12:35 PM): hi buddy
fe3333au (7:12:44 PM): hey
fe3333au (7:12:52 PM): how you?
bawhomp (7:13:01 PM): marvy
fe3333au (7:15:53 PM): anyway .. just responding to your initial peace points
bawhomp (7:15:57 PM): i pm'd you today
bawhomp (7:15:59 PM): xpost
fe3333au (7:16:32 PM): I was too tired and busy to do it for 2 days ... so sorry about that
bawhomp (7:16:44 PM): no probs
fe3333au (7:16:48 PM): shouls I look at your PM?
bawhomp (7:16:59 PM): really no change
fe3333au (7:17:17 PM): opening now
bawhomp (7:17:18 PM): we were wondering if we could bring grinder home along the roads and such
fe3333au (7:18:05 PM): please do ... but we have yet to get save or maybe got it in last couple hours
bawhomp (7:19:09 PM): prolly not. i think it's in tnt's hands
bawhomp (7:19:36 PM): did you want to skip the dyes thing? i can't remember what those cities look like
fe3333au (7:19:59 PM): 1 sec ... I am cut and pasting
fe3333au (7:20:14 PM): and then we can discuss it if you want
fe3333au (7:21:29 PM): sent
bawhomp (7:22:50 PM): got it
fe3333au (7:23:19 PM): lets do point by point ... ok
bawhomp (7:23:38 PM): ok
fe3333au (7:24:05 PM): you lead the discussion ok whompus
bawhomp (7:24:10 PM): ok kid
bawhomp (7:24:47 PM): 1. is pretty simple. peace thru 154 and renegotiated when the time comes
fe3333au (7:25:07 PM): yes
bawhomp (7:25:57 PM): #2 units will stand down and not invade borders. we would like Grinder to be able to use roads if possible
fe3333au (7:26:57 PM): what you mean?
bawhomp (7:27:41 PM): so he can come home
bawhomp (7:27:45 PM): take a road
fe3333au (7:28:04 PM): as long as he doesn't enter city zone?
bawhomp (7:28:10 PM): right
fe3333au (7:28:21 PM): I see no problem with that
bawhomp (7:31:12 PM): ok on 3 let's see if we can add coordinates
fe3333au (7:31:37 PM): whatever is permissible
fe3333au (7:31:47 PM): grids would help in the process
bawhomp (7:31:49 PM): we can site landmarks
bawhomp (7:32:36 PM): can i add one thing?
fe3333au (7:32:42 PM): yes ... that will take some time ... but if agreed then we can both start working on it ... I guess in principal 50:50 is agreed
fe3333au (7:32:48 PM): sure what?
bawhomp (7:32:51 PM): ok good
bawhomp (7:33:32 PM): As an act of good faith while negotiating a 50 turn peace deal, we would like to propose a 5 turn non-agression pact
fe3333au (7:34:22 PM): that is good ... cos in 5 turns we should have the Continental Divide worked out
bawhomp (7:34:41 PM): ok because Grinder is on a road now
fe3333au (7:35:02 PM): good faith for us is him moving away
bawhomp (7:35:15 PM): back home kid
fe3333au (7:35:34 PM): we certainly don't want him to be disbanded or anything like that
bawhomp (7:35:53 PM): oh no he's still valuable and earning his pay
fe3333au (7:36:14 PM): he he ... well clause 4 covers that anyway
bawhomp (7:36:22 PM): ok
bawhomp (7:36:34 PM): can you see senilityville on your map>
fe3333au (7:36:51 PM): not sure is it new?
bawhomp (7:38:02 PM): no it's the city north of flaxon
fe3333au (7:38:48 PM): ok ... I'm not sure whomp ... but if that is where the beer is ... well who are we to barr his way to the bar
bawhomp (7:39:34 PM):
bawhomp (7:40:31 PM): ok so we can start landmarking based on those cities and other noticable sites
bawhomp (7:40:42 PM): #4 is good
fe3333au (7:40:50 PM):
bawhomp (7:41:54 PM): If you agree to let Grinder go home through greek territory. we will allow ou to put one warrior on each mountain outside our 2 lux towns. This will help us establish the 50/50 line
bawhomp (7:42:25 PM): but if it's a hoplite only 1 would be fair
fe3333au (7:42:48 PM): these mountains are in your city zones ???
bawhomp (7:43:42 PM): hold on i keep switching between the pm and a map lol
bawhomp (7:45:18 PM): ok yes there are two mountains on our borders
fe3333au (7:46:17 PM): there are three prominent peaks in jungle ... one near Dyes, Spice and one further east
bawhomp (7:47:40 PM): yep let's work off those peaks
bawhomp (7:48:02 PM): but in the meantime 1 hop on one of those peaks near our cities is fine
bawhomp (7:48:08 PM): while grinder comes home
bawhomp (7:48:15 PM): and we hay have others
bawhomp (7:48:20 PM): *may
fe3333au (7:48:43 PM): so we may enter your territory just until Grinder is gone?
bawhomp (7:48:53 PM): sure
bawhomp (7:49:05 PM): that's seems fair so he has a shorter route home
fe3333au (7:49:29 PM): I like that ... thanks
fe3333au (7:50:32 PM): so that means grinder will walk through Flaxon boarder?
fe3333au (7:50:52 PM): opening maps for myself now
bawhomp (7:52:05 PM): yes so he doesn't have to go around and your guys will be in our territory
fe3333au (7:52:29 PM): I agree
fe3333au (7:52:43 PM): just leave our goats alone
bawhomp (7:52:55 PM): no goats
bawhomp (7:53:02 PM): do you have a map?
fe3333au (7:53:04 PM):
fe3333au (7:53:33 PM): slooowly opening ... dailup is exhasusted like me today
fe3333au (7:54:40 PM): I see grinder now ... we will have to make some roome as that road is crouded ... out people have never seen a Gallic Sword before
bawhomp (7:54:58 PM): btw you tell us which path to take to not interfere with your workers
fe3333au (7:56:15 PM): k ... if they are busy you will have to go around them ... but either then that ... it is good ... we build good roads
fe3333au (7:57:27 PM): so we can move a hoplite onto your dye town mountain ... you will have to move warrior if he is still there
bawhomp (7:57:27 PM): tell us before our turn though if we need to go a certain way....he moves fast but
fe3333au (7:58:02 PM): I undersatnd ... it will come with the save ... you will probably see it anyway
bawhomp (7:59:10 PM): right so if chamnix needs us to go a certain way all he has to do is tell us
fe3333au (7:59:25 PM): yes
bawhomp (7:59:28 PM): we may request more to be able to use roads so
fe3333au (8:00:18 PM): yep there are all one way roads
fe3333au (8:00:31 PM): headed south
fe3333au (8:01:21 PM): so our other hoplite can go onto the mountain overlooking your Spice twon yes?
bawhomp (8:02:07 PM): yes but only 1 hop but 2 warriors
fe3333au (8:03:13 PM): only 1 hoplite on each mountain ... yes
bawhomp (8:03:17 PM): no
bawhomp (8:03:23 PM): 1 hop or two warriors
bawhomp (8:03:41 PM): if you don't have any warriors then 1 hop
fe3333au (8:04:43 PM): ok ... what if we move 1 hoplite on one mountain and then move him out and another goes onto other mountain? ... our warriors are too far away
bawhomp (8:05:09 PM): how about we let you do that if we bring home others
fe3333au (8:05:32 PM): so 1 hoplite on one mountain only?
bawhomp (8:05:42 PM): while we come home
fe3333au (8:05:49 PM): ok
bawhomp (8:05:55 PM): and if we bring another then you can switch
bawhomp (8:06:04 PM): there's no spoiler info there
fe3333au (8:06:04 PM): ok
fe3333au (8:06:16 PM): no worries
bawhomp (8:06:24 PM): ok kewl
bawhomp (8:06:49 PM): so that can be agreed to for #4
fe3333au (8:06:53 PM): so basically it is a temporary ROP
fe3333au (8:07:04 PM): in the specific areas
bawhomp (8:07:44 PM): slower than a ROP since we can move more than 1 tile
fe3333au (8:07:54 PM): yes ... agreed
fe3333au (8:08:10 PM): #5?
fe3333au (8:08:32 PM): probably needs rewording?
bawhomp (8:09:09 PM): not really
bawhomp (8:09:40 PM): if we are telling you our plans and say ok while we move through here's what you can do that's fine
bawhomp (8:09:50 PM): that will give us a reason to talk

fe3333au (8:09:58 PM): I like talk
bawhomp (8:10:18 PM): ok well #4 just means we need to talk
bawhomp (8:10:37 PM): and agree by saying if X does Y then A can do B
bawhomp (8:11:03 PM): so it will change as we go
fe3333au (8:11:17 PM): yes ... I was actually keeping it open to 'visit' TNT or Nuts
fe3333au (8:11:46 PM): sort of a surprise 'visit'
bawhomp (8:12:57 PM): ok no probs
bawhomp (8:13:19 PM): we have more folks that may pay a visit to your roads and request permission to come home
fe3333au (8:13:56 PM): ok ... the 1 hoplite on mountain rule will apply
bawhomp (8:14:22 PM): ok we can move the one warrior if that's the mountain so let us know which one
fe3333au (8:14:44 PM): It will come with Chamnix's save
fe3333au (8:15:21 PM): probably Dye town will happen first as we already have unit nearby
bawhomp (8:15:24 PM): what's the plan with the galleys?
fe3333au (8:16:00 PM): we will not move any further south and may even move back
fe3333au (8:16:23 PM): what do you suggest?
fe3333au (8:17:39 PM): we will not hinder Bebe's Boat
fe3333au (8:17:48 PM): *Bede's Boat
bawhomp (8:17:54 PM): ok well we'll send her home then
fe3333au (8:18:12 PM): got plenty of holiday snaps
bawhomp (8:18:31 PM): so no further north with the boat? what are holiday snaps?
fe3333au (8:18:43 PM): photographs
bawhomp (8:19:00 PM): kewl! send some
fe3333au (8:19:05 PM): and yes no further south
bawhomp (8:19:13 PM): no further north
fe3333au (8:19:22 PM): sorry yes
fe3333au (8:20:07 PM): #6?
bawhomp (8:20:17 PM): did we hit 5?
fe3333au (8:20:28 PM): 5 was naval
bawhomp (8:20:32 PM): got it
bawhomp (8:21:15 PM): is our 5 turn non aggression a gentelman's pact here and now btw?
fe3333au (8:21:29 PM): yes spit and shake
bawhomp (8:22:11 PM): done
bawhomp (8:22:22 PM): #6
fe3333au (8:22:58 PM): Half price to tech you are not researching
bawhomp (8:23:12 PM): and not the one you and TNT got
fe3333au (8:23:19 PM): yes
bawhomp (8:23:51 PM): ok so you got feud and theo right?
fe3333au (8:24:44 PM): not sure I can answer that at this stage ... and anyway isn't it better to get surprises
fe3333au (8:25:32 PM): I know I'm being coy
bawhomp (8:25:34 PM): i think that's it since we can use civassist
fe3333au (8:26:00 PM): well my dear friend I can neither confirm nor dely at this stage
fe3333au (8:26:15 PM):
bawhomp (8:26:39 PM): ok no probs. maybe chiv could be that tech?
bawhomp (8:26:47 PM): you didn't get that for free we know
fe3333au (8:27:11 PM): You guys are good ... but we already knew that LOL
fe3333au (8:27:56 PM): so #6 is good?
bawhomp (8:28:36 PM): yep nothing we're researching and nothing you got with TNT for free. I'd love to pin down which tech that would be
fe3333au (8:28:57 PM): zipped mouth
fe3333au (8:29:26 PM): #7 self explanitory
bawhomp (8:29:45 PM): ok well one more thing on #6
bawhomp (8:29:50 PM): is it gold or gpt
fe3333au (8:29:50 PM): yes
bawhomp (8:30:14 PM): brb
fe3333au (8:30:22 PM): good question .. what do you prefer?

bawhomp (8:32:33 PM): 7 is self explainatory
fe3333au (8:33:37 PM): Now you will see that a didn't mention the dye clause ... because you alreday have 3 to our 1 ... that confusion was my fault when I was cotton wool headed
bawhomp (8:33:55 PM): ok so scratch it
fe3333au (8:34:29 PM): Spices we feel that 2 each is fair
bawhomp (8:36:55 PM): ok so really it's border and middle age tech that needs to be worked out
fe3333au (8:37:54 PM): yes ... but that can be nutted out with landmarks and stuff ... I wonder if we can draw rough diagrams?
bawhomp (8:38:41 PM): we can see the same map so why don't each of cut a swath and say this is what we see and come back
fe3333au (8:39:17 PM): ok ... but we cannot use screenies
bawhomp (8:39:49 PM): right so landmarks that say from this whale to this mountain 3 tiles from blank etc
fe3333au (8:40:47 PM): yes ... we will both get our cartograher and surveyers out ... another idae is have units positioned on the proposed Continental Divide
bawhomp (8:41:02 PM): could
bawhomp (8:41:11 PM): it's a waste of resources though
bawhomp (8:41:42 PM): let's try getting an eyeball on it and work from there
fe3333au (8:41:52 PM): yeah ... so that's the biggest job for us both ... but I feel it will work well
bawhomp (8:41:55 PM): we now the whole map and you know the map
fe3333au (8:42:01 PM): yes
bawhomp (8:42:12 PM): we just need to determine what tech and how to pay
fe3333au (8:42:53 PM): would some gold and rest per turn work ... we don't want to bankrupt you
bawhomp (8:43:12 PM): let's see what the tech is
fe3333au (8:43:28 PM): actually I feel that whatever payment scheme you work out will be fair
fe3333au (8:44:59 PM): and this is just me, must confer with team ... but if per turn payments, I don't think you would have to wait for final payment
bawhomp (8:46:42 PM): as an act of good faith we would sign agreement righ now
bawhomp (8:47:02 PM): but just realize #6 is a major sticking point
fe3333au (8:47:18 PM): yes
bawhomp (8:48:59 PM): we don't expect you to act on #7 until the "agreement in principle" becomes a "treaty in force".... so we'll leave that for the final treaty.
fe3333au (8:49:47 PM): yes Ivory when Agreement signed
fe3333au (8:50:05 PM): what about #6 ... which is the tech clause
bawhomp (8:50:28 PM): we would like to know specifically what this is
bawhomp (8:50:52 PM): and the borders but 1,2 and 3 we would agree on good faith
fe3333au (8:51:51 PM): yes ... I'll have to ask team about telling you the tech ... don't want to lose my job
bawhomp (8:54:49 PM): well the problem becomes an issue of time
bawhomp (8:55:53 PM): we'd prefer to know what it would be so we can prepare for the cost
bawhomp (8:57:33 PM): turn is in to you guys
fe3333au (8:59:18 PM): ok ... I don't see a problem with telling you the tech, but have to let team decide ... it will probably come with the save as well ... just don't want my arse tanned (it's still smarting from the confusion I created with the dyes thing)
bawhomp (8:59:35 PM): ok no probs
bawhomp (8:59:57 PM): the earlier the better
fe3333au (9:00:12 PM): So at this stage were have non-aggression for 5 turns
fe3333au (9:00:25 PM): *we
bawhomp (9:00:41 PM): spit and shake
fe3333au (9:00:43 PM): which will give us time to complet the treaty
fe3333au (9:01:09 PM): damn I have to wash my hand again

 

[scoutsout]

Notes on stuff as it relates to MIA and the latest round.

• Per the agreement, MIA put a single hoplite on the mountain outside "Dyes Town" (EWR).
• If they would like to put a unit on the mountain outside "spice town" (SenilityVille) they must first withdraw the hoplite from the mountain outside EWR.
• Grinder has not yet entered MIA territory.
• I muffed a move with Grinder and sent him west when I meant to send him NW.
• I would like to take Grinder between the two MIA towns. They have a 'cultural bridge' that they own... one tile between the 2 towns that is within their cultural borders, but not in the 9 tiles of either town. Diplomats: please propose this as a crossing point.

@Whomp: How goes it with the negotiations on the "50/50 line"? Are you guys getting anywhere with that?

 

[scoutsout]

Sorry for the double-post... but this is important. @Whomp: I need permission for Grinder to enter the nine-tile radius of ChuckNorris???? so that we may verify that town name for our 50/50 negotiations.

 

[scoutsout]

Ahem... sorry for the triple post.... here's something for the 50/50 line:

Edit: @Whomp: Request that Team MIA dispatch a "survey party" (a unit of some sort) to meet our "survey party" (likely one of our Gallics) at East Mountain. Our units can walk the line together, if they like.

Spoiler :

The 50/50 line, a proposed legal description:

The members of Team MIA have proposed to divide the "Green Continent" equitably between Team MIA and Team KISS. To that end, said Green Continent shall be divided by a "50/50 Line" that shall limit the extent of the southern settlement by Team KISS and the northern settlement by Team MIA.

The two teams acknowledge the legitimacy of each team's existing settlements in the central jungle region of the Green Continent. These existing settlements are presently named "Effing Whomping Rower" and SenilityVille (KISS) and "Flaxon Musk" and "Chuck Norris?" (MIA).

The Green Continent shall be generally divided by a line running generally Southwesterly from the eastern shore of the Green Continent to the Western coastline, respecting established settlements and borders. Said line shall henceforth be known as the "50/50 Line", described as follows:

For a point of commencement: Commence at a Mountain located on the tile south of SenilityVille, in TeamKISS/Celtic territory. From said mountain thence East, East, and SouthEast to an unclaimed mountain and temporary benchmark that shall be known as "East Mountain".

From East Mountain, thence North, North, Northeast, to a Marsh tile located 1NE of a Banana, 2NW of a Fish, and W-SW of a Whale. The Eastern Corner of said Marsh tile shall serve as the Point-of-Beginning of this description and the 50/50 Line.

From the point of Beginning thence travel Northwesterly along the NE side of said Marsh tile to the north corner. Thence southwesterly along the NW sides of the Greek/MIA tiles (the SE sides of the adjacent Celtic/MIA tiles) as follows: Three (3) SW to the East Corner of the border of Senilityville, continue 2 SW along the Southeasterly border of SenilityVille, continue 1 SW along the SE'ly border of SenilityVille and the NW border of Flaxon Musk. Thence 2 SW along the NW border of Flaxon Musk to the southern corner of a jungle tile located 1SW of a spice tile.

Thence travel northwesterly along the northeast sides of the Greek/MIA tiles (SW sides of adj. Celtic/MIA) tiles 2 Northwest, thence along the NW/SE sides of the tiles 1 Southwest to the northern corner of the existing border of ChuckNorrisville. Thence continue SW along the NW Border of ChuckNorrisville 1 SW, to the East Corner of EffingWhompingRower. Thence continue 2 SW along the NW border of ChuckNorrisville and the SE border of EffingWhompingRower. Thence 4 SW, thence NW to the coast and the end of the 50/50 Line.

Furthermore, the members of Team KISS and Team MIA agree to the following:

1. Team KISS shall not place a settlement on the Green Continent with its geographical center located south of the latitude of ChuckNorrisVille.
2. Team MIA shall not place any settlement on the Green Continent with its geographical center located north of the latitude of SenilityVille.

Definitions:

Point of Commencement: a mutually known and well established point of reference.

Point of Beginning: The first point of the line.

 

[Whomp]

I will forward this to Fe.

 

[Whomp]

Fe wants a city on the other spice. This does not work for me at all. We beat them to both luxs so if they want spices they can plant a colony. As well we want the tech they'll offer half price.

Spoiler :

fe3333au (7:09:54 PM): hey
bawhomp (7:10:15 PM): Hey buddy boy
fe3333au (7:13:07 PM): true ... so you got my PMs
bawhomp (7:13:11 PM): i did
bawhomp (7:13:19 PM): i forwarded them to scout
fe3333au (7:13:35 PM): easier system ... cos I was getting realy confused
bawhomp (7:14:43 PM): i don't think it's a problem. we can do it here though he's on IM so I'll translate
bawhomp (7:14:54 PM): he's not online now
fe3333au (7:15:10 PM): do we need to finalise this element before the peace?
bawhomp (7:15:42 PM): i think we have a few turns but I think we would like to know the tech beforehand
bawhomp (7:15:49 PM): so we can plan
fe3333au (7:18:26 PM): the line is going to have kinks in it ... I would feel more secure about spice if it could be within a city radius ... colony is wroker wasted and then easily taken away with either a city that cultures or even a simple unit walk
bawhomp (7:19:00 PM): i don't think that will work
bawhomp (7:19:12 PM): too much border pressure
bawhomp (7:19:51 PM): if the city had been planted to cover both i don't think that would've been an issue but it wasn't
fe3333au (7:20:28 PM): we didn't plant before because you were already thre and it would have encrouched on your city
bawhomp (7:20:39 PM): not really
bawhomp (7:20:54 PM): it could've been planted to get both
fe3333au (7:21:23 PM): only if it had been planted directly on your radius
fe3333au (7:21:51 PM): SE of the mountain
fe3333au (7:22:10 PM): sorry s of mountain
bawhomp (7:22:24 PM): well in effect that's what you're asking to do now
fe3333au (7:22:59 PM): no plant another city nw of the unclaimed spice
fe3333au (7:23:26 PM): sorry SW of spice
fe3333au (7:24:18 PM): you in turn could get another city to take up the tile count on our line somewhere
bawhomp (7:24:22 PM): see if you'd planted 1W it wouldn't be an issue
fe3333au (7:24:57 PM): but in would have created tension for the mountain
bawhomp (7:26:36 PM): hold on i need to move the pc
bawhomp (7:28:21 PM): ok
fe3333au (7:28:38 PM): k
bawhomp (7:29:05 PM): jungles and green guys all over make it hard to see LOL
fe3333au (7:29:27 PM): see Spice Mountain?
bawhomp (7:29:37 PM): i do
fe3333au (7:30:17 PM): so that was in your city radius when we came up
fe3333au (7:31:09 PM): so we couldn't plant a city south of it
bawhomp (7:31:49 PM): my concern is it may encroach our roads
fe3333au (7:32:36 PM): so what I would like is to plant new city ... sw, sw of that Mountain ... if we take a road we will compensate
fe3333au (7:32:47 PM): that is a given
bawhomp (7:34:06 PM): well i think we'd expect compensation in territory and i don't think it will go over big
fe3333au (7:34:25 PM): of course territory!
bawhomp (7:34:32 PM): still
bawhomp (7:34:40 PM): it's important territory
fe3333au (7:35:08 PM): we really need security of having spice in our border ... you would expect it I think
bawhomp (7:35:53 PM): i'm not sure. i will open it up for discussion
fe3333au (7:36:32 PM): good ... ... that's all I ask
fe3333au (7:37:15 PM): Isn't it frustrating not to be able to post maps to each other ... we should get an award
bawhomp (7:37:30 PM): it is
fe3333au (7:38:11 PM): So the map (in compass dots) I sent was that correct to what you proposed?
bawhomp (7:38:52 PM): i'll have scout look. he was the one who wrote the one i sent you
fe3333au (7:39:24 PM): I got lost with all the 'thences' LOL
bawhomp (7:40:07 PM): i wish i could have you two online together
fe3333au (7:40:40 PM): untill I get new system ... AIM is all I really do
fe3333au (7:41:22 PM): so Grinder is going to EWR?
bawhomp (7:42:40 PM): headed home
fe3333au (7:43:00 PM): clearing some black on the way
bawhomp (7:43:29 PM): not too much
bawhomp (7:43:43 PM): we have a pretty clear view i must say
fe3333au (7:43:51 PM): LOL
bawhomp (7:44:01 PM): as well as you
fe3333au (7:44:11 PM): yep LOL
fe3333au (7:45:04 PM): so we will move our Hopi off the EWR Mountain and move one up to Dye Mountain in a couple of turns
bawhomp (7:45:54 PM): ok
fe3333au (7:46:12 PM):
fe3333au (7:47:52 PM): Scout not on AIM I take it?
bawhomp (7:48:12 PM): no we just got him on MSN...lol
fe3333au (7:48:35 PM): I can understand ... he seems like our era
bawhomp (7:48:50 PM): us old guys are cyber immigrants amongst a group of cyber natives
fe3333au (7:50:06 PM): nicely put ... actually I studied Computer in Highschool ... one of first to offer this
fe3333au (7:50:19 PM): we learnt about ticker tape and punch cards
bawhomp (7:50:24 PM): hah
fe3333au (7:50:37 PM): Fold Staple Mutilate
bawhomp (7:50:48 PM): i had to do freakin fortran..ick

fe3333au (7:58:22 PM): Actually off the top of my head ... which may make the Spice town option more palitable
fe3333au (7:58:36 PM): and I would of course have to confer with team
fe3333au (7:59:06 PM): what is we offered you a choice for the half price tech?
fe3333au (7:59:16 PM): X or Y
fe3333au (7:59:34 PM): at a payment schedule that you would be happy with?
bawhomp (8:00:37 PM): a tech at half price
fe3333au (8:00:55 PM): yes half price but you get a choice
bawhomp (8:01:08 PM): if you prefer
fe3333au (8:01:34 PM): well we want a secure 2nd spice
fe3333au (8:01:56 PM): I'd hate to be in the middle of trade and then it get's cut
fe3333au (8:02:13 PM): which would be worst case scenario
bawhomp (8:02:38 PM): we would guarantee that won't happen during this treaty
fe3333au (8:03:02 PM): treaty period I feel secure ... we looking long term
bawhomp (8:03:26 PM): understood
bawhomp (8:03:38 PM): i will throw it out there
fe3333au (8:03:48 PM): KISS would want the same if situation was reversed
bawhomp (8:04:00 PM): we didn't have to give anything really
bawhomp (8:04:13 PM): we gave it up
fe3333au (8:04:39 PM): sure ... but we both want peace so we can stop Nuts running away with the game
bawhomp (8:05:09 PM): yes but not at the expense of critical territory
fe3333au (8:05:56 PM): and security from our point of view
fe3333au (8:06:25 PM): anyway ... offer is out there ... let's see where it goes
bawhomp (8:06:54 PM): ok
fe3333au (8:07:15 PM): so is that all for KISS/MIA then?
fe3333au (8:07:34 PM): cos we are almost there I recon
fe3333au (8:08:07 PM): When we both agree ... do you send us agreement to sign?
bawhomp (8:08:48 PM): i think the agreement i sent looked fine. the only details are the map and tech
bawhomp (8:09:20 PM): i figured you know how to put it on a scroll...i don't know how to do that
fe3333au (8:09:54 PM): I was thinking of the parchment jpeg where we both add our sigil ... to make it ultra official
fe3333au (8:10:21 PM): ok when we agree ... I'll whip something up
fe3333au (8:10:35 PM): with the wording that we both agree on
fe3333au (8:11:08 PM): one last thing ... will it be 50 turns on signing?
bawhomp (8:11:34 PM): it figured that we have 5 turns and 50
bawhomp (8:11:41 PM): i*
fe3333au (8:11:50 PM): yes ... I like that
fe3333au (8:12:13 PM): so now we can chatter about other things
bawhomp (10:21:02 PM): bye werner!
bawhomp (10:21:10 PM): Have a great day!

 

[Bede]

They make a city placement error, then expect us to rectify it for for them? Not bloody likely!

 

[Daghdha]

I third that one. Dem should just stay still for a while, go into accept-mode and build defense for 40 turns.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm all for blocking them from getting the second spice if we can, but why are they asking us?? that part cornfused me.

It looks like they are still scared of the nuts and about to initiate a trade of spices to TNT. They prolly are offering a dye too. The likelyhood of TNT loosing a core city (then resettling Carpetbomb) and having settled and roaded to lux heaven is very slim.

 

[scoutsout]

@Bede: In principle, I am with you. In practice... I am wondering if we can't play this to advantage.

They have tipped their hand, in more ways than one. We know they're in no shape to go to war. Why else would someone stack hoplites all over the place while a single Gallic Sword works his way home? More importantly, we know what they really want. That bears repeating.

We know what they really want.

I was chatting on MSN w/ Whomp last night...and as I considered it, I think we should find out where their "threshold of pain" is on striking this deal. Since they want to place the town S or SW of the spices, it give us some ICS'ish specialist farms when we take those towns... but here's what I think we should wrangle out of them in the meantime (for starters):

1. Rolling back the green line
2. Half a dozen workers.

Squeezing them for half a dozen workers cost them the equivalent of 2 hoplites (without firing a shot) as well as the population equivalent of 2 settlers. And we could use the workers.

The way I see it, they want us to give them a strategic advantage. They should expect to give no less in return. What do you think?

 

[Tubby Rower]

If you guys can get 6 workers out of them, I will be in awe. Personally I would be insulted and never treat you as a partner for the rest of the game.... maybe longer.

But like you said, they seem to be very scared of a war right now, so they might cave. It's a risky move, but I think that we are getting ready for war with someone after seeing all of the catapults in construction in the latest save.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I just noticed this in another forum...



I wonder if this means that peter_grimes is calling the shots for the "war" over there instead of Chamnix.

 

[Whomp]

The spice thing is becoming a major hang up for MIA. So I took away the tech part of the deal in turn no spices. We have no idea what tech they'd offer at half price anyhow so *bam* took it away and out of the equation. If they are willing to give us workers in exchange for a city on the spices fine. Otherwise no dice.

Spoiler :

bawhomp (9:22:30 PM): Hey there W
fe3333au (9:22:38 PM): hey
bawhomp (9:22:47 PM): wuddup dere?
fe3333au (9:23:05 PM): nuffin ... John Wayne on tele
fe3333au (9:23:48 PM): anything back from Scoutsscout?
fe3333au (9:23:57 PM):
fe3333au (9:24:12 PM): turn is going fast
bawhomp (9:24:28 PM): he wants workers in exchange...i said i don't think that would be possilbe.
fe3333au (9:24:42 PM): what you mean?
fe3333au (9:24:57 PM): for allowing a city to secure our spice?
bawhomp (9:25:03 PM): yep
fe3333au (9:25:15 PM): ha ha ha ha ha ha
fe3333au (9:25:50 PM): tell him his comedy act is not bad ... if he tours to MIA I'll certainly book tickets
fe3333au (9:26:23 PM): Listen the Spice thing is a real issue for us
fe3333au (9:26:44 PM): so whatever you come up with ... has to incorporate it
fe3333au (9:28:48 PM): Continental Divide is 50/50 Split with us getting security of Spices
bawhomp (9:28:56 PM): colony
fe3333au (9:29:06 PM): no not secure enough ..
fe3333au (9:29:49 PM): you get territory compensation and if we have taken road ... we will build another
bawhomp (9:30:49 PM): you want something of strategic value and we want something in return
bawhomp (9:30:57 PM): of value
fe3333au (9:31:00 PM): We are both entering these negotiations as equal partners ... you may feel ... sorry KISS may feel that MIA slighted them ... we feel the same ... RIK even said to both of us that he sees how both interpretations are valid
bawhomp (9:31:02 PM): it's not our fault
bawhomp (9:31:36 PM): i went by what was written not words
fe3333au (9:32:07 PM): So when the propsed 50/50 spilt was mentioned that is good ... just change lines around ... EWT is in our territory so what is the difference
bawhomp (9:32:42 PM): strategic and i don't know why we gave you the first one
bawhomp (9:32:52 PM): what do you counter with?
bawhomp (9:33:06 PM): of real strategic value?
bawhomp (9:33:12 PM): not territory
fe3333au (9:33:53 PM): irrelivent ... we feel that we need security of spice ... upto you to propose the alternative
bawhomp (9:34:20 PM): EWT is not in your territory
fe3333au (9:34:20 PM): OT ... when I say you ... I mean KISS
bawhomp (9:34:47 PM): and really the whole spice territory should be ours
fe3333au (9:34:54 PM): the original starting and end pnt line you proposed ... if straight line it is
fe3333au (9:35:22 PM): but not staright line ... so just add another kink to the map
bawhomp (9:35:37 PM): i think you're insulting us
fe3333au (9:36:05 PM): no ... I bet you, that you would not accept colony
bawhomp (9:36:31 PM): if you beat us to the spot i would
fe3333au (9:36:43 PM): We are offering you a choice of techs for half price
bawhomp (9:36:56 PM): as you should
bawhomp (9:37:03 PM): but that's another topic
fe3333au (9:37:07 PM): why ...
bawhomp (9:37:16 PM): you gave away our techs
fe3333au (9:37:24 PM): we did not
bawhomp (9:37:31 PM): in your view
fe3333au (9:37:43 PM): you cancelled the agreeement
bawhomp (9:37:58 PM): our trading
bawhomp (9:38:09 PM): not everyone the agreement was still in force
fe3333au (9:38:11 PM): so we have to agree that we both felt and still do that we acted correctly
fe3333au (9:39:10 PM): if we cannot do that ... then this process is going to be very complicated
The takeaway
bawhomp (9:39:35 PM): we propose a colony
bawhomp (9:39:43 PM): or workers
fe3333au (9:39:55 PM): if that is your best offer then we cannot give techs
bawhomp (9:39:57 PM): if you have other strategic value then bring it up
bawhomp (9:40:26 PM): fine tech is off the table
bawhomp (9:40:29 PM): no spices
fe3333au (9:41:58 PM): you sure ... that there is no way we can get a secure spice ... because that just nmeans to us that after 50 turns you will take it from us by either culture or capture?
fe3333au (9:43:15 PM): another way of looking at it is that you are not really offering us spice in the first place
fe3333au (9:44:11 PM): and if I continue that line of thought ... it was now really on the table in the first place
bawhomp (9:44:19 PM): it never was
bawhomp (9:44:55 PM): so we'll back off the tech and you back off on spices
bawhomp (9:45:19 PM): we haven't heard what tech anyhow and with our past i don't think tech is a good exchange
fe3333au (9:45:30 PM): hmmmm ...
fe3333au (9:45:38 PM): is peace an option then?
bawhomp (9:45:44 PM): sure
bawhomp (9:46:00 PM): the spice city comes with a price
fe3333au (9:46:31 PM): so this has changed everything ... let me get it straight
bawhomp (9:47:17 PM): nothing's change just things have been taken off the table
fe3333au (9:47:34 PM): for no concessions from either of us ... we agree to 50 turns of peace along a border that has yet to be defined 9but is achievable?)
bawhomp (9:47:45 PM): yes
Sabre Rattling
fe3333au (9:47:54 PM): for us to get spice ... we will need to trade for that concession?
bawhomp (9:48:21 PM): for spice city we expect value like workers in return
fe3333au (9:48:31 PM): how many?
bawhomp (9:48:37 PM): we are negotiating...
bawhomp (9:48:46 PM): we took tech off the table
bawhomp (9:48:52 PM): so take spices off
fe3333au (9:48:57 PM): I wouldn't have aclue ... and team will discuss
fe3333au (9:49:27 PM): what is value of a worker?
fe3333au (9:49:45 PM): LOL and what is the value of Spice
bawhomp (9:51:31 PM): depends a city will cost a lot
fe3333au (9:53:42 PM): I doubt we will go for workers anyway ... so I guess we will have to decide if 50 turns of peace is worth it
bawhomp (9:55:23 PM): do you want a sign of good faith?
fe3333au (9:55:35 PM): for what?
bawhomp (9:56:52 PM): For seeing if peace is worthwhile
fe3333au (9:57:23 PM): I don't undersatnd
bawhomp (9:59:33 PM): Well...by letting your hoplite on the mountain...should we talk about that?
fe3333au (10:00:07 PM): oh grinder ... yeah ... do you mean the gentleman's agreement?
bawhomp (10:00:25 PM): good faith
fe3333au (10:00:52 PM): well I spoke for team and myself when we spat and shook
bawhomp (10:02:19 PM): ok well your troops are in our territory and ours are not in yours so i think we've been agreeable and allowed that in hopes for peace
bawhomp (10:02:43 PM): if you must have a city on the spices we need something in return and the tech is off the table
bawhomp (10:02:59 PM): we couldn't even get you to commit on what it was...so.
bawhomp (10:03:05 PM): that's off
fe3333au (10:03:27 PM): they will both get home safely ... but maybe we will have to pick a route ... maybe north and only north from current position
bawhomp (10:03:54 PM): he may not go north if this doesn't get settled
My dig at their tech dealing
fe3333au (10:05:03 PM): The reason I didn't tell you the tech ... was obvious ... that information would only come when evrything else is agreed ... else you get too much information ...
fe3333au (10:05:18 PM): we even gave you a choice
bawhomp (10:05:20 PM): then it's off the table
fe3333au (10:05:44 PM): not yet ... but without spice security it certainly is
bawhomp (10:05:44 PM): we don't like how you handle techs....obviously
bawhomp (10:06:02 PM): it's off the table so drop it from the agreement
fe3333au (10:06:14 PM): I undersatnd ... but how many MA techs are there that we could possibly offer
bawhomp (10:06:23 PM): doesn't matter now
fe3333au (10:07:20 PM): so do we get to look at a proposed Continental divide ??
bawhomp (10:07:57 PM): what else can you offer vs. tech
bawhomp (10:08:08 PM): we have no interest in your techs
bawhomp (10:08:55 PM): workers, extra land multiplied by how much?
Oh no no Shoo shoo...you're not getting off the hook.
fe3333au (10:09:27 PM): so if you are not interested in our techs ... was this whole scenario a waste of time?
bawhomp (10:09:34 PM): it's not like we can use workers against you..
bawhomp (10:10:10 PM): no it wasn't but we didn't discuss planting a city near the spices.
bawhomp (10:10:23 PM): so i took off tech and you take off the city
bawhomp (10:11:00 PM): or come up with something else in return for the city
bawhomp (10:11:08 PM): colony is fine..
bawhomp (10:11:28 PM): and we won't build culture through it
fe3333au (10:12:17 PM): but 10 turns after peace a temple's culture would swamp it
fe3333au (10:12:36 PM): so that is not really an option
fe3333au (10:13:15 PM): but you said back in the cahst that the spice was never really on the table anyway
fe3333au (10:13:23 PM): *chat
bawhomp (10:14:45 PM): we are not taking the spice city off the table...but we need something in return
fe3333au (10:15:20 PM): so my question is how many workers?
fe3333au (10:15:48 PM): and I also want to see the map for your borders
fe3333au (10:16:08 PM): or is the one I sent acceptible?
Six workers...
fe3333au (10:33:04 PM): so scout still around ... am wondering about Continental 50/50 ... because if Spice off the table ... not necessarily war
fe3333au (10:33:46 PM): also need to know what order of magnitude workers you want as compensation for a spice town
bawhomp (10:33:54 PM): ok we will
bawhomp (10:38:25 PM): check with your people and see how many you feel is worthwhile. I don't think 6 is out of line.
bawhomp (10:38:38 PM): 60 shields.
bawhomp (10:38:56 PM): easily worth the spice trade you'll get...
fe3333au (10:39:42 PM): possibility ... but we need to see this in conjuction with the border ... what was reaction to what I sent you?
fe3333au (10:39:56 PM): was it close?
bawhomp (10:40:07 PM): i think so. i'll check again.
bawhomp (10:40:29 PM): ok well that's cleaner too.
bawhomp (10:40:50 PM): i will try and pull up a save tomorrow and go tile by tile
fe3333au (10:41:38 PM): use my system I think it is easy to interpret
fe3333au (10:41:58 PM): but I thought Scout was doing the map?
bawhomp (10:42:38 PM): he did
bawhomp (10:43:05 PM): i will look at yours and check with him too
bawhomp (10:43:18 PM): we can make dots on our side
fe3333au (10:43:33 PM): he he
bawhomp (10:48:00 PM): ok you exhausted me...now i have to sleep.
bawhomp (10:48:19 PM): let's work off that premise. the spice city is not off the table
bawhomp (10:48:33 PM): but we'd like some in return
bawhomp (10:48:46 PM): workers would be good
bawhomp (10:48:48 PM): easy
fe3333au (10:48:58 PM): undersatnd ... and we will get the border outlined
bawhomp (10:49:04 PM): ok
fe3333au (10:49:10 PM): cya
bawhomp (10:49:11 PM): now i must sleep
bawhomp (10:49:22 PM): bye Werner