Diplo for MIA

[scoutsout]

Here's the lastest proposal, as sent in a PM

Spoiler :

@AdmiralK and fe,

Here are two proposals. Look them over, and if you find no errors, please post in the respective team threads.

As I see it, every counter proposal I have seen by MIA has included more take than give. A counter proposal that added a few tiles KISS in the east also made dramatic changes to the western border; all the while preserving MIA control over the spice tile as "no-man's land".

Here are the key points:

• Both proposals grant MIA control of "East Mountain".
• Proposal Number One grants MIA some control over the spice tile in the center.
• Proposal Number Two grants MIA control over the fisheries in the east.
• Proposal number one has a western border that is identical to a proposal made by MIA.
• Both proposals include a western border that matches (or nearly matches) a proposal made by team MIA in the "No Frills Peace" proposal.

Proposal Number One.

Eastern Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on East Mountain tile ... then tile jump to W, W, W, to an unclaimed Spice tile located in the vicinity of Senilityville and Flaxon Musk. The east corner of this tile is the point-of-beginning.

The Eastern Border
1. From Eastern Beginning Point go NW x 3, ending at the E tip of city radius of SenilityVille which is KISS' Spice town.
2. Then go SW x 3, ending at the E tip of East Mountain.
3. Then go NW x 3, ending at the Eastern Coast.

Western Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on West Mountain, the peak closest to Cyprus Creek ... then tile jump to S, S, S, W which is the Western Tile. The Western Tile is a jungle on the coast ... NW, NW is a Whale ... N is a fish.
Western Beginning Point is the N tip of the Western Tile.

The Western Border
1. From Western Beginning Point go SE x 2.
2. Then go NE x 2, ending on Effing Whomping Rower city radius.
3. Then go SE x 2, along city radius to S tip Effing Whomping Rower, also the S tip of of KISS' southern Dye.
4. Then go NE x 4, which is N tip of Chuck Norrisville city radius.
5. Then go SE x 1, along city radius.
6. Then go NE x 2, ending on the W tip of Unclaimed Spice.

No Man's Tile
Unclaimed Spice is defined as a No Man's Tile.
This tile will remain forbidden to unit entry for the duration of the Peace. A colony may ONLY be built if both teams agree to terms of compensation in the future.

The Continental Divide
The Continental Divide is defined as the meeting of the Western and Easter Borders at the forbidden Unclaimed Spice tile.

To maintain this equitable split of the Green Continent for the duration of the peace, the following rule must be adhered to :

To ensure that there are no city radius encroachments into each others territory, the boundary line will be drawn with the following stipulation. Every new city must be founded NO closer than 1 tile from the Continental Dividing Line ... and every city as close as 3 tiles from the line is forbidden to have cultural buildings constructed for the duration of the peace.

Proposal Number Two:

Eastern Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on East Mountain tile ... then tile jump to W, W, W, to an unclaimed Spice tile located in the vicinity of Senilityville and Flaxon Musk. The east corner of this tile is the point-of-beginning.

The Eastern Border
1. From Eastern Beginning Point go NW x 3, ending at the E tip of city radius of SenilityVille which is KISS' Spice town.
2. Then go SW x 1, ending at the E tip of East Mountain.
3. Then go NE x 3, ending at the Eastern Coast and the southern tip of the KISS town of Nincompoopicity.

Western Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on West Mountain, the peak closest to Cyprus Creek ... then tile jump to S, S, S, W which is the Western Tile. The Western Tile is a jungle on the coast ... NW, NW is a Whale ... N is a fish.
Western Beginning Point is the N tip of the Western Tile.

The Western Border
1. From Western Beginning Point go SE x 2.
2. Then go NE x 2, ending on Effing Whomping Rower city radius.
3. Then go SE x 2, along city radius to S tip Effing Whomping Rower, also the S tip of of KISS' southern Dye.
4. Then go NE x 4, which is N tip of Chuck Norrisville city radius.
5. Then go SE x 3, along city radius.
6. Then go NE x 3, joining the Western border to the Eastern border at the E tip of the tile containing an unclaimed spice.

The Continental Divide
The Continental Divide is defined as the meeting of the Western and Easter Borders at the forbidden Unclaimed Spice tile.

To maintain this equitable split of the Green Continent for the duration of the peace, the following rule must be adhered to :

To ensure that there are no city radius encroachments into each others territory, the boundary line will be drawn with the following stipulation. Every new city must be founded NO closer than 1 tile from the Continental Dividing Line ... and every city as close as 2 tiles from the line is forbidden to have cultural buildings constructed for the duration of the peace.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Scout in proposal 1, you're mixing up E and W. for the eastern part.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

think what you're trying to say is :
There are 2 fish and a whale on the west coast. Start at the bottom of the NE fish. Go SE, SE. Then NE, NE. Then SE, SE. You should be on the southern tip of the dyes. go NE x4. Then SE. you should be at the west tip of the unclaimed spice. NE. SE. 3 NE. One SE. 3 Ne puts you on the coast, in the tile NW of the NW fish ON THE EAST coast.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

well, scout, now you've done it. my head just exploded. I'll post more when igor has the parts togethor again

 

[scoutsout]

think what you're trying to say is :
There are 2 fish and a whale on the west coast. Start at the bottom of the NE fish. Go SE, SE. Then NE, NE. Then SE, SE. You should be on the southern tip of the dyes. go NE x4. Then SE. you should be at the west tip of the unclaimed spice. NE. SE. 3 NE. One SE. 3 Ne puts you on the coast, in the tile NW of the NW fish ON THE EAST coast.

Correct. If I messed it up, make the changes and discuss w/ fe... please.

 

[Tubby Rower]

well, scout, now you've done it. my head just exploded. I'll post more when igor has the parts togethor again

we really need a pmp smilie

 

[Bede]

we really need a pmp smilie

Try this one!

 

[Daghdha]

Just a wee note: If we are about to gobsmack TNT and that beautifully un-guarded Furbomb, we really should get that MIA peace deal up and going. We want to hit TNT before muskets and I don't see the logic in stalling the peace process any further even if it is fun to cause frustration. Good thing if MIA can't focus on building economy, I agree, but it makes our lil mission overseas impossible IMIO. Going after TNT without the peace deal seems like suicide because MIA will prolly see the option and hit asap.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Agreeeeed.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

So then help me out with scout's directions. I think I already fixed option 1. Can somebody fix option 2? back later

 

[scoutsout]

@AdmK: have a look at these corrections:

Spoiler :

Proposal Number One.

Eastern Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on East Mountain tile ... then tile jump to W, W, W, to an unclaimed Spice tile located in the vicinity of Senilityville and Flaxon Musk. The east corner of this tile is the point-of-beginning.

The Eastern Border
1. From Eastern Beginning Point go NE x 3, ending at the E tip of city radius of SenilityVille which is KISS' Spice town.
2. Then go SE x 3, ending at the E tip of East Mountain.
3. Then go NE x 2, ending at the Eastern Coast.

The line ends at the E corner of a jungle tile. NW NW of this tile is a banana, NE is a fish, E is a fish.

Western Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on West Mountain, the peak closest to Cyprus Creek ... then tile jump to S, S, S, W which is the Western Tile. The Western Tile is a jungle on the coast ... NW, NW is a Whale ... N is a fish.
Western Beginning Point is the N tip of the Western Tile.

The Western Border
1. From Western Beginning Point go SE x 2.
2. Then go NE x 2, ending on Effing Whomping Rower city radius.
3. Then go SE x 2, along city radius to S tip Effing Whomping Rower, also the S tip of of KISS' southern Dye.
4. Then go NE x 4, which is N tip of Chuck Norrisville city radius.
5. Then go SE x 1, along city radius.
6. Then go NE x 2, ending on the W tip of Unclaimed Spice.

No Man's Tile
Unclaimed Spice is defined as a No Man's Tile.
This tile will remain forbidden to unit entry for the duration of the Peace. A colony may ONLY be built if both teams agree to terms of compensation in the future.

The Continental Divide
The Continental Divide is defined as the meeting of the Western and Easter Borders at the forbidden Unclaimed Spice tile.

To maintain this equitable split of the Green Continent for the duration of the peace, the following rule must be adhered to :

To ensure that there are no city radius encroachments into each others territory, the boundary line will be drawn with the following stipulation. Every new city must be founded NO closer than 1 tile from the Continental Dividing Line ... and every city as close as 3 tiles from the line is forbidden to have cultural buildings constructed for the duration of the peace.

Proposal Number Two:

Eastern Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on East Mountain tile ... then tile jump to W, W, W, to an unclaimed Spice tile located in the vicinity of Senilityville and Flaxon Musk. The east corner of this tile is the point-of-beginning.

The Eastern Border
1. From Eastern Beginning Point go NE x 3, ending at the E tip of city radius of SenilityVille which is KISS' Spice town.
2. Then go SE x 1,
3. Then go NE x 3, ending at the Eastern Coast and the southern tip of the KISS town of Nincompoopicity.

Ending point of the Eastern Border is the north corner of a jungle tile on the coast. W is a banana, SE is a fish, NE NE is a whale.

Western Beginning Point of the 50/50 Border
Start on West Mountain, the peak closest to Cyprus Creek ... then tile jump to S, S, S, W which is the Western Tile. The Western Tile is a jungle on the coast ... NW, NW is a Whale ... N is a fish.
Western Beginning Point is the N tip of the Western Tile.

The Western Border
1. From Western Beginning Point go SE x 2.
2. Then go NE x 2, ending on Effing Whomping Rower city radius.
3. Then go SE x 2, along city radius to S tip Effing Whomping Rower, also the S tip of of KISS' southern Dye.
4. Then go NE x 4, which is N tip of Chuck Norrisville city radius.
5. Then go SE x 2, along city radius.
6. Then go NE x 2, joining the Western border to the Eastern border at the E tip of the tile containing an unclaimed spice.

The Continental Divide
The Continental Divide is defined as the meeting of the Western and Easter Borders at the forbidden Unclaimed Spice tile.

To maintain this equitable split of the Green Continent for the duration of the peace, the following rule must be adhered to :

To ensure that there are no city radius encroachments into each others territory, the boundary line will be drawn with the following stipulation. Every new city must be founded NO closer than 1 tile from the Continental Dividing Line ... and every city as close as 2 tiles from the line is forbidden to have cultural buildings constructed for the duration of the peace.

View attachment 119807

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Looks good to these tired eyes.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

once option 1 or 2 is decided upon by the MIA's (after much voting, running in circles, etc), I'd like to suggest a mid to long term peace deal with them. IIRC (always an iffy thing) we need about 30 turns to tool up for TNT. Having no respect for them, I'm taking as a given (isn't that some type of math term?) that we can accomplish our war goals in 40-50 turns. Therefore, i suggest a non-aggression pact with MIA after the current deal is solidified. something on the order of:

Thou shalt not ally with an enemy of KISS/MIA.
Thou shalt not trade with a civ that KISS/MIA is at war with.

obviously this needs to be refined and placed in proper english, but I thought I'd upchuck it for discussion.

OT - Go Bison!

 

[Daghdha]

I believe the deal discussed is for 50 turns + 5 turns "notification". I would like 40-50 turns and no note. As I've stated before, my take on the peace negotiations is "Peace for 50 turns and that's it" which means no fiddeling about lines, grace turns, other alliances and the like. I stand by that and see no reason to make it more complicated than that. What we need most of all is MIA to prevent themselves from jumping us when we attack TNT. If we get them to sign that, we can have our GA before we hit them and will be in a superior position due to that, plus our alliance with Nuts.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

daghie, I don't claim to be current on all the negotiations, but I concur that any deal should exclude a notification clause.

 

[Tubby Rower]

What is the status of the peace? I can send some PM's/ Emails today so that we can speed things up.

I don't want to see 5 turns notice crap in there. Also the "don't ally with an enemy.." will bite us in the butt if MIA attack the nuts. So leave that out too.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Here is a message in the gmail box from MIA

Dear KISS,

Thank you for submitting a fair and even-handed set of proposals to us.

We find line #2 to be an excellent place to start the final negotiations.

But we need clarification on two points ...


General - about cultural building in cities near the Dividing Line
In Proposal 1, you indicate that it is not permissible to build culture in cities which are 3 tiles away from the line. But in Proposal 2, you have reduced that number to 2 tiles away.
> Is there a reason for this or an oversight?


Proposal 2 - Western Border

6. Then go NE x 2, joining the Western border to the Eastern border at the E tip of the tile containing an unclaimed spice.

The directions actually end on the southern tip of the unclaimed spice, yet the instructions mention joining the border
> So am I correct that it should read NE x 3, thus giving you exclusive excess to the unclaimed spice?

We have been expecting the 'unclaimed spice' to end up in a "no-man's land" to be negotiated over in the future. Will this still be the case or does KISS want to establish a spice monopoly during the 50 turns of peace?

You've been fair in proposing this line, so we're eager to see your equally fair proposal on how MIA will be compensated for giving up any claim to the spice if this is what you are suggesting.

Once this final issue is resolved, we look forward to signing on for 50 years of peace and putting these dark chapters behind both our peoples.

We also assume the following conditions are acceptable for the peace.

Spoiler :

I. Both MIA and KISS agree to recognise the Green Line which is defined as the meeting of the Western and Eastern Borders at the Forbidden Tile. KISS will control the territory north of the Green Line and MIA will control the south.

II. To ensure that there are no cultural encroachments into the other's territory, both teams agree that any new cities may not be founded any closer than 1 tile from the Green Line.

III. To ensure that cultural expansions do not violate the other's territory, both teams agree that every city that is less than or equal to 3 tiles away from the Green Line is forbidden to have completed any cultural buildings for the duration of the peace.

IV. During the peace any Land unit must be granted permission prior to entering any tile controlled by the other team.

V. Naval units must be granted permission prior to ending their turn if they are closer than one tile from the other teams cultural border.

VI. restrictions on Air units must be discussed when one team has discovered the technology required to build them.

Perhaps you could correct, add or delete any conditions that you feel should be in place for the duration of the peace. I have highlighted in red the conditions which are effected by the points that have been earmarked for clarification above.

Regards

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Scoutsout,

Since you were the one to write the latest version, could you correct it and re-send? Then we will be golden to attack TNT. Also put a turn number on the end of the peace. That way it will definate as to when the peace is over.

 

[scoutsout]

Scoutsout,

Since you were the one to write the latest version, could you correct it and re-send? Then we will be golden to attack TNT. Also put a turn number on the end of the peace. That way it will definate as to when the peace is over.

I got a copy of fe' PM as well. I am going to look his comments over and reply carefully.

My intent was to offer MIA control over the coast and fish or the spice, but not both.

Is that amenable to you guys? I don't want to tip them off by weakening our position too visibly...but at the same time I know we need to cut this deal so I can get some troops over to TNT-land.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I think that your proposal is A1 choice beef. I think that we need to give them a choice instead of an ultimatum so that they feel like they are controling the conversation. (Thanks to Bede, AK, & Whomp for that insight... now only if I could implement it effectively myself)