Diplomacy AI Development

[SilentReply]

I have to say I've been very impressed by how active and "alive" the AI has been in my current playthrough. I don't think I've felt so engaged in a playthrough since my first games when Civ V came out 10 years ago!

I did come across another unusual circumstance with the diplo modifiers however. I stole a tech from Poland, stole science two turns later (got detected) and moved my spy back to my capital. Next turn he asks me not to spy and I promise I will. A few turns later I kill his spy in my capital, and now he gives me the "you promised not to spy and broke it" penalty.

Spoiler modifiers :

Also of note, the same wonder penalties I mentioned previously have not decayed, 50 turns or so later. @Recursive Any idea what could explain this? I did declare war on him very early, turn 50 or less, to stop an aggressive settle - it amounted to nothing and we peaced right after. Same thing with Ethiopia, who still has the more severe wonder penalty (-40) despite us both having 3 wonders.

 

[Recursive]

I have to say I've been very impressed by how active and "alive" the AI has been in my current playthrough. I don't think I've felt so engaged in a playthrough since my first games when Civ V came out 10 years ago!

I did come across another unusual circumstance with the diplo modifiers however. I stole a tech from Poland, stole science two turns later (got detected) and moved my spy back to my capital. Next turn he asks me not to spy and I promise I will. A few turns later I kill his spy in my capital, and now he gives me the "you promised not to spy and broke it" penalty.

Spoiler modifiers :

View attachment 553186

Also of note, the same wonder penalties I mentioned previously have not decayed, 50 turns or so later. @Recursive Any idea what could explain this? I did declare war on him very early, turn 50 or less, to stop an aggressive settle - it amounted to nothing and we peaced right after. Same thing with Ethiopia, who still has the more severe wonder penalty (-40) despite us both having 3 wonders.

I'm happy you're having fun.

Seems like a bug on both counts! I'll investigate.

 

[Recursive]

Fixed the "broken spy promise" issue (the code intended to run when AI killed your spy was running when you killed their spy). Still looking at the issue with the wonder penalty.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

That's definitely unusual, but not impossible. Approach changes on a curve, and I guess your FRIENDLY and HOSTILE scores are very close to one another, so some changing factor (e.g. military strength or prioritization) is tipping the scales in either direction every couple turns. That it happens rarely isn't too unexpected.

I'm not sure it is that unusual. I have been seeing a lot of flipping from friendly to hostile and back again in the last few versions.

I think you are right that it is when the scores are very close. It seems there needs to be a larger neutral zone.

 

[vyyt]

I'm not sure it is that unusual. I have been seeing a lot of flipping from friendly to hostile and back again in the last few versions.

I think you are right that it is when the scores are very close. It seems there needs to be a larger neutral zone.

JFYI, in my case, Siam had double my score and like 5x my military score.

 

[Recursive]

I'm not sure it is that unusual. I have been seeing a lot of flipping from friendly to hostile and back again in the last few versions.

I think you are right that it is when the scores are very close. It seems there needs to be a larger neutral zone.

JFYI, in my case, Siam had double my score and like 5x my military score.

Hmm, I suspect it has to do with the "approach prioritization" system I implemented. It's intended to make diplomacy more dynamic, but not to be erratic like this.

I could add a bias for the AI's current approach to make it less likely to flip.

 

[tothePAIN]

In a recent game, I had Assyria, while at war with me, bribe my neighbor to go to war with me. But I don't think that I'm able to bribe the AI to go to war with an AI that I'm warring against. Is this intended?

 

[Recursive]

In a recent game, I had Assyria, while at war with me, bribe my neighbor to go to war with me. But I don't think that I'm able to bribe the AI to go to war with an AI that I'm warring against. Is this intended?

Need an embassy.

 

[tothePAIN]

No, even if I have an embassy, if I ask the AI to declare war on an AI that I'm already at war with, the screen will say that a current war (my war) prevents this situation.

 

[JamesNinelives]

No, even if I have an embassy, if I ask the AI to declare war on an AI that I'm already at war with, the screen will say that a current war (my war) prevents this situation.

Are you asking someone to declare war through general discussion with them?

If so, what you want to do is go through the trade window and select 'declare war' as a trade item on their side.

 

[Recursive]

No, even if I have an embassy, if I ask the AI to declare war on an AI that I'm already at war with, the screen will say that a current war (my war) prevents this situation.

That's odd. Are you sure it was bribery? You got a notification?

 

[JamesNinelives]

I will post full feedback later, but I wanted to say the diplo AI in my current game on the latest patch has been excellent .

I have both Declarations of Friendship and Defensive pacts, but also denouncements and declarations of war against me! Aggression seems good both early and mid-game (I participated in several wars), and the diplo penalties don't feel overtuned.

Spoiler :

 

[azum4roll]

Minor pick, but I've seen AIs referring to me as a warmonger in the diplomacy screen ("Arrogance will be your downfall, warmonger." - Haile Selassie) when I've never taken any cities - only liberated two CSes instead. Zero warmonger opinion penalty on every civ (transparent diplomacy on).

Persia also ended their DoF with me because of "religious difference", despite not being a founder.

3-1b version, but probably unchanged in the latest one.

 

[JamesNinelives]

Minor pick, but I've seen AIs referring to me as a warmonger in the diplomacy screen ("Arrogance will be your downfall, warmonger." - Haile Selassie) when I've never taken any cities - only liberated two CSes instead. Zero warmonger opinion penalty on every civ (transparent diplomacy on).

Persia also ended their DoF with me because of "religious difference", despite not being a founder.

3-1b version, but probably unchanged in the latest one.

The way the other civs greets you depends on how their visible attitude towards you, as far as I know? So even if you are peaceful they might call you a warmonger, a heretic, or a traitor or something like that.

Persia also ended their DoF with me because of "religious difference", despite not being a founder.

I've had people end DoFs with me because of 'religious differences' when the reason was clearly that I was competing with them for wonders (on a previous version where that penalty was quite high).

 

[Recursive]

Minor pick, but I've seen AIs referring to me as a warmonger in the diplomacy screen ("Arrogance will be your downfall, warmonger." - Haile Selassie) when I've never taken any cities - only liberated two CSes instead. Zero warmonger opinion penalty on every civ (transparent diplomacy on).

Persia also ended their DoF with me because of "religious difference", despite not being a founder.

3-1b version, but probably unchanged in the latest one.

The way the other civs greets you depends on how their visible attitude towards you, as far as I know? So even if you are peaceful they might call you a warmonger, a heretic, or a traitor or something like that.


I've had people end DoFs with me because of 'religious differences' when the reason was clearly that I was competing with them for wonders (on a previous version where that penalty was quite high).

Whether AI calls you a warmonger in dialogue is based on your warmonger threat, not your warmonger score. Threat doesn't decay over time as much, IIRC. This is also used in the approach calculation. Opinion uses the warmonger score.

AI has an algorithm for choosing the reason behind their denouncement. I haven't actually looked much at this code.

 

[tothePAIN]

Are you asking someone to declare war through general discussion with them?

If so, what you want to do is go through the trade window and select 'declare war' as a trade item on their side.

Yes, this is through the trade menu.

 

[azum4roll]

Whether AI calls you a warmonger in dialogue is based on your warmonger threat, not your warmonger score. Threat doesn't decay over time as much, IIRC. This is also used in the approach calculation. Opinion uses the warmonger score.

AI has an algorithm for choosing the reason behind their denouncement. I haven't actually looked much at this code.

What's warmonger threat? I still have one of the smallest armies in the world, and only 5 cities.

 

[SilentReply]

I'm curious about the warmonger penalty for city capture in the situation below. In the current war with Ottomans I have only captured one of my own cities back from them. China and Ottomans have denounced each other (and warred in the past), Ottomans are sanctioned, China has neutral opinion of me and no negative penalty towards me so far for warmonger penalty. Why should they be "extremely upset" if I capture this city? Strangely, they would only be "greatly upset" if I conquered America's capital, who they have DoF and DP with...

Spoiler City capture penalty :

 

[Recursive]

I'm curious about the warmonger penalty for city capture in the situation below. In the current war with Ottomans I have only captured one of my own cities back from them. China and Ottomans have denounced each other (and warred in the past), Ottomans are sanctioned, China has neutral opinion of me and no negative penalty towards me so far for warmonger penalty. Why should they be "extremely upset" if I capture this city? Strangely, they would only be "greatly upset" if I conquered America's capital, who they have DoF and DP with...

Spoiler City capture penalty :

View attachment 553965
View attachment 553968

That reminds me, I should post the warmonger penalty calculation.

 

[Drakle]

I've seen a trend lately of civs offering early declarations of friendships, often my immediate neighbours. Then ten to twenty turns later (on Epic) they suddenly realise that I'm their best target and denounce and sometimes then attack me. Just had this happen with Mongolia attacking me as Babylon. Maybe the AI should be a bit more logical with who it offers a declaration of friendship since Authority Mongolia didn't really have anybody else to attack but me, so it doesn't have to eat a backstabber penalty. Or just rate breaking a diplo penalty higher.

No complaints with the tactical Mongolia AI. They just ripped right through my armies, with their extra movement and no Zone of Control Chariots. My armies were out of position, knocking down Morrocco for forward settling me since I foolishly trusted the friendship to give me some time. The only issue is the AI doesn't seem to want to leave any movement points left, so the chariots sometimes maneuvered ontop of rough terrain where they were vulnerable, instead of just staying on the safe flat plains.