Diplomacy - the options are always RED!

[DrJambo]

Do people find that when they're trying to conduct some of the more interesting diplomatic relations with other civs that the options are always "red", i.e. not possible...?

It's incredibly frustrating knowing that there are lots of cool diplomatic options, but yet never being able to use any of them...

Is there a way to have less of them "redded out"?

 

[Kwyjibo]

You will have to build better relation with the other leaders before the will trade some of the 'redded out' stuff. If you mouse-over on the thing they don't wanna trade, they will give you the reason why they don't want to trade it. Sometimes this will be because they just don't like you, but also because they think you are becomming too advanced or it doesn't serve in their interest to trade that particular item. They might need that oil for building units, or they don't want to open border because they want to keep you from settling in a certain area (I know I would!). Try aligning faiths with the other religions (either by spreading your, or by adopting theirs) this will usually give you a fair diplomatic boost...

 

[thamis]

Yea, the leaders in CIV4 are a bit extreme about trading. But then, I think the AI doesn't trade with other AI as much either. That balances it.

 

[DrJambo]

I was meaning more from the "declare war" and "don't trade" options - sometimes these are redded out even on Civs who are apparently pleased towards you. This means that you can't even try to encourage them to fight alongside you or help you out.

Better than redded out would be just more expensive or they'd need more to persuade them. It's like we've been given a cool toy for Christmas and then been told we can't use it.

 

[Kwyjibo]

But perhaps they have other interests when it comes to the other civ's and they value that higher then their relationship with you. If your best friends are the ones high up the ranks (ie lots of money and very advanced), their are more likely to ignore any request for war on the other civ, because you probably have nothing to offer them they really need. Quite often a lower ranking civ will gladly go to war with you because a) they cannot beat this enemy on their own or b) they need you later on for a defensive pact or some techs.

 

[IntruderAlert]

And sometimes you can open up red options by doing some more piplomacy.
In my current game I am flanked by frist the Japanese and then the Russians.
The Japanese were making some attempt at starving my civ from some deseretly nedded resources.
At first catharine would not fight her buddy Japan for any deal I offerd.
After a bit of looking around I found a way to starve the Japanese from a resource they needed but got of the americans at that time, I have the same resource but we were not trading.
So now the Japanese want my resurce, fine stop trading with catharine then.
When they complied, lovely Cat was furious and it took just 2 techs and 2000 gold to make em fight one and other.

 

[DrJambo]

What difficulty level are you playing on IntruderAlert? I'm playing on Prince and I simply don't have 2 spare techs and 2,000 gold.

 

[IntruderAlert]

What difficulty level are you playing on IntruderAlert? I'm playing on Prince and I simply don't have 2 spare techs and 2,000 gold.

uhmm.... warlord..
Still trying to get into the game, and into the higher levels.

 

[MeteorPunch]

The is a complaint I have as well. The AI's should at least hear what I am offering (who knows, I may be generous), before rejecting me. An "average" relationship shouldn't cause trade goods to be in the red.

 

[eldar]

Techs in particular annoy me. Why shouldn't they give up, say, Gunpowder for (say) Refrigeration?! Especially when I can already build Infantry.

 

[warpstorm]

The best way to get them to not be red is to make friends with them. Help them out when they ask, choose the proper civics, choose the proper religion, give them gifts, be an enemy to their enemy, etc.

They will not trade techs that they are planning to build a Wonder from ever (nor should they). In general, they will not trade techs if they are the only one who knows it (nor should they). They also won't stop trading with someone they like more than you just because you asked (especially if they are trading for something important).

 

[eldar]

One game every AI apart from myself knew Gunpowder (plus a few other military techs). I'd gone a different path and was well into the modern era, with some high-value (and in cases wonder-allowing) techs.

Still all red.

Mind you, nobody liked me in that game.

I guess changing your state religion (esp. if Spiritual), and reviewing some trades ("if I stop getting resource X from A, then B might give me resources Y and Z as well - because it'll improve that relationship") is worth taking the time over.

 

[DrJambo]

Warpstorm, that's all fair and well, but they don't even know the deal they could get from you because they won't even listen. The point is that by simply reddening out the diplomatic options all one's effectively doing is strangling what diplomacy is supposed to be about.

 

[DrJambo]

*double post

 

[marioh]

I don't like the not available feature in this game. It's ridiculous that the AI can "request/demand" a tech from me, yet I can't do the same to them. Many a war was initiated in CIV3 by me due to the enemy AI not honoring my request for tribute. I'm very disappointed that I can no longer do that with techs.

 

[maartena]

Is there a way to have less of them "redded out"?

Yes, befriend them more. Give some gifts like money and technology and they will be friendly fairly quick. Or when they ask stuff from you such as cancel trade deals with their worst enemy, do so.

You can't get friendly with everyone though, if you insist to keep an allied relation with one nation, you will most likely run into troubel with their enemies by default.

Think of it this way: The United States will share technology with England and Germany because they are friends. They will see a whole list of "redded out" items if they were to open up a diplomacy window with Iran, North Korea or Cuba.

 

[warpstorm]

You can demand a tech. ??? It won't make you any friends and probably won't work...

 

[marioh]

You can demand a tech. ??? It won't make you any friends and probably won't work...

I used to do it all the time in CIV3, typically to Civs I didn't care for or Civs that were a direct challenge to me winning the game. It's no different than when the AI requests/demands techs in CIV4...

 

[MeteorPunch]

Why won't the AI trade world maps? Even if I would offer thousands of gold, the option isn't available.

 

[warpstorm]

It's no different than when the AI requests/demands techs in CIV4...

I know this. Sometimes writing does not reflect the tone of voice. I can do this in Civ4 also.