discovering religeons instead of researching them

[Seont]

i searched, but didn't find this suggested before. course it might help if i spelled "religeon" correctly with a little more frequency, so i apologize if its already been brought up.

I've always hated researching a religion, and given the types of religions in FFH, I think it would be far more interesting to have religions *discovered* instead of researched. some examples would be the cult of the dragon being founded by cities near acheron the red dragon or in the barbarian city he captures, possibly through his cultural boundries, or maybe by the city that houses the dragon hoard(if you raze the city before the religeon can be founded).
Octopus Overlords being founded by a coastal city, likely one working alot of sea tiles. Runes of kilmorph having something to do with mines or mountains, leaves having something to do with forests, ashen veil having something to do with entropy mana nodes, or something along those lines.

perhaps a mechanic similar to the chance of discovering a resource in an active mine could be applied to determine when and where these religeons are founded, ofcourse care would need to be taken to ensure the religeons are eventually founded, and in a timely fashion.
it would probably have to be something global and cumulative, for example with leaves, as forest tiles are worked they add to a global pool determining when the religeon is founded, and the more forest tiles being worked in any one city determining the likelyhood of it being founded there.


anyway just a thought. hope this wasn't already suggested. feed back appreciated.

 

[Sarvoth]

I like this concept a lot, but I really doubt due to how it'd change the games mechanics so drastically that it would be implimented..

 

[Kael]

The problem with this is it takes away from the strategy of founding religions. Right now going for certain religions is a huge part of the early game. If we made them event based they would essentially be random and players would lose one of their most game impacting decisions.

 

[.SinClaire.]

The problem with this is it takes away from the strategy of founding religions. Right now going for certain religions is a huge part of the early game. If we made them event based they would essentially be random and players would lose one of their most game impacting decisions.

ahh good point...But I only pick my religion purely aesthical, like- What religious theme color city would look pretty with a Calabim palace?

I find it's better to be agnostic.

 

[Seont]

The problem with this is it takes away from the strategy of founding religions. Right now going for certain religions is a huge part of the early game. If we made them event based they would essentially be random and players would lose one of their most game impacting decisions.

except isn't it already fairly random as to whether you found a religeon?

starting conditions and random events will dictate what you research and whether you have the luxury of pursuing a given religeon, and even then, its a crap shoot as to whether you will be able to grab the beakers before a rival who may have better starting conditions or got luckier with the goody huts, etc.
Failing to found it yourself, its luck as to whether the religeon is even founded on your continent, much less migrates into your territory to make use of it.

Also, from several posts i read i understand that certain races AI's are hard coded to pursue certain religions, elves for leaves, dwarves for runes,etc. if this is true, it really rather suggests a synergy(ugh, hate that word) that you would be going against the grain to pursue something else, meaning do you really have much of a choice?

add that to the fact that failing to found a religion after pursuing it grants you nothing until you are fortunate enough for the religeon to spread into your lands, since the tech grants no items that don't require the religeon to build and leads to no techs that don't also first require the religeon, its a crap shoot with no prize for second place.

lastly, and maybe this is just me or im missing something(since im largely coming from .16 here), but as for it being a game impacting decision, i get religions when i can, but otherwise i'd rather pursue something more immediately useful. Sure a religeon is nice, and disciple units can kick butt, but since it requires the religeon, then the temple, then disciples to spread it, and still other techs like preisthood, etc, its something that really can't be made use of immediately,atleast not substantially, unlike mining, or bronze working, roads etc, which my workers can put to immediate use throughout my empire, boosting production, growth or commerce for a more long term benefit.
i'd much rather let the chips fall where the may, and take whatever comes my way.

 

[Red Boxer]

The problem with this is it takes away from the strategy of founding religions. Right now going for certain religions is a huge part of the early game. If we made them event based they would essentially be random and players would lose one of their most game impacting decisions.

Perhaps it could be a combination of things. Discover the tech, then based on some factors the religion has a chance to be discovered.
FoL: number of forests in city cultural area + elvish-ocity
OO: sea tiles
RoK: Mines/hills/mountains + dwarven-icity
the Order: ...uhm... amount of... something...
AV: also unsure

 

[wilboman]

We might tie religions to quests, who knows? But quests are specced for a later phase. For the time being, research is the most "fair" way of ensuring that you can decide which religion you get, and roughly when.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Also, from several posts i read i understand that certain races AI's are hard coded to pursue certain religions, elves for leaves, dwarves for runes,etc. if this is true, it really rather suggests a synergy(ugh, hate that word) that you would be going against the grain to pursue something else, meaning do you really have much of a choice?

Elves really benefit from fellowship unlike other players, Khazaks do get a nice boost with runes. So, yes, it's good for them to research those religions. However, i really think it's more a flavor matter! It's better to have elves (if they are present) found the fellowship, rather than say : the calabims.

add that to the fact that failing to found a religion after pursuing it grants you nothing until you are fortunate enough for the religeon to spread into your lands, since the tech grants no items that don't require the religeon to build and leads to no techs that don't also first require the religeon, its a crap shoot with no prize for second place.

This changed much in fire, now you get a free tier1 dsiciple and you can start spreading your religion. You just won't have the benefit from the holy city.

lastly, and maybe this is just me or im missing something(since im largely coming from .16 here), but as for it being a game impacting decision, i get religions when i can, but otherwise i'd rather pursue something more immediately useful.

In fire, some religions have a HUGE impact. Particularily the Ashen Veil as it will bring the Infernals in the game. Also, some religions determine your alignment. Sure it would be fun to have Elohims turn neutral because they adopt OO, or the Clan be neutral because of runes, but it would soon become boring if good civs starting near the see turn neutral because some fish "show them the path"

 

[Gamestation]

add that to the fact that failing to found a religion after pursuing it grants you nothing until you are fortunate enough for the religeon to spread into your lands, since the tech grants no items that don't require the religeon to build and leads to no techs that don't also first require the religeon, its a crap shoot with no prize for second place.
...
(since im largely coming from .16 here)

Time for you to try out Fire. As soon as you research a religious tech, you automatically get a disciple of that religion. It does not matter any more that someone else managed to found a religion before you because you can still get the religion.

EDIT: Gah did not notice it was already covered in the above post.

 

[Seont]

Elves really benefit from fellowship unlike other players, Khazaks do get a nice boost with runes. So, yes, it's good for them to research those religions. However, i really think it's more a flavor matter! It's better to have elves (if they are present) found the fellowship, rather than say : the calabims.

Fair enough, though at some point it just seems like, "why bother" tie the religeon to the race, atleast initially.

This changed much in fire, now you get a free tier1 dsiciple and you can start spreading your religion. You just won't have the benefit from the holy city.

thats definetly an improvement, and negates several of my arguements.

In fire, some religions have a HUGE impact. Particularily the Ashen Veil as it will bring the Infernals in the game. Also, some religions determine your alignment. Sure it would be fun to have Elohims turn neutral because they adopt OO, or the Clan be neutral because of runes, but it would soon become boring if good civs starting near the see turn neutral because some fish "show them the path"

Realisticly, the veil is going to be founded, as i understand it the only big thing is if you get the chance to play the infernal.

And just because a nation was near the sea doesn't mean other religions wouldn't surface and have influence on them. I think i would find it less boring to have a bunch of races turn neutral than the elves always being leaves, the dwarves always being runes.

But ill leave it at that, this is just an aspect of the civilization series i've always despised, and plainly i'm alone in that oppinion. Thanks you all for the feed back.

 

[wilboman]

Well, again, perhaps religions will be quest-founded, or perhaps there'll be several ways of doing it, but probably not in this incarnation.

 

[kenken244]

prehaps it can have somethign to do with having the prophet unit in a particular terrain and as the ai is right now they can avoid changing their alignment by founding a religion