Discussion about Shoshone in BNW

[God of Kings]

Since the main Shoshone thread was locked due to discussions about history, trolling, and flaming, I have recreated this thread.

Please remember not to discuss history, or troll and flame here. Here, we discuss about the Shoshone and its implementation in Civ V: BNW. In other words, let's discuss gameplay mechanics, graphics, and music here.

The Pathfinder UU is very interesting, since it would make ancient ruin grabbing more fun (as well as Pathfinder rushes that can ignore terrain and costs less than a warrior).

 

[Louis XXIV]

I still wonder if Pathfinder is balanced. It strikes me as too strong overall.

 

[Sir Parsifal]

My theory about the Pathfinder is that the ruin-bonus choosing mechanics will work the same way they do, except with the random element removed. So no Faith ruins before turn 20 (I think turn 20 is when you can start getting Faith ruins), once you've picked a bonus from a ruin you can't pick it for the next three ruins, etc.

 

[MarauderCH]

I am really looking forward to playing the Shoshone. At first I was disappointed because I really wanted the Sioux since that is the region of the country I live in, but I have gotten over it. I look forward to not getting maps of terrain that I have mostly uncovered or maps of the ocean (a blank piece of paper?). I think it will really make finding later ruins better, too.

 

[Distinct]

My theory about the Pathfinder is that the ruin-bonus choosing mechanics will work the same way they do, except with the random element removed. So no Faith ruins before turn 20 (I think turn 20 is when you can start getting Faith ruins), once you've picked a bonus from a ruin you can't pick it for the next three ruins, etc.

I was thinking they might do it in the style of the Maya Long Count/Liberty finisher. Choose one, and then you can't choose it again (unless you've already gotten every other type, which is pretty hard to do). That would stop people from getting 5 free techs in the early game.

 

[God of Kings]

It would be great if the Shoshone player can delay getting the map until it is one of the few times getting a map is actually useful.

 

[tranger66]

I like the extra land when settling a city. You will see a bit more of the map when you settle the capital and you can claim resources easier while still getting the best hex with regards to rivers etc.

 

[MarauderCH]

Has it been mentioned how much extra land is claimed yet? An entire second ring of hexes is extremely powerful. I fear what the AT will do with this ability. Once it goes into city spam mode, it's going to have so much zones ready to work.

 

[ggmoyang]

I like the extra land when settling a city. You will see a bit more of the map when you settle the capital and you can claim resources easier while still getting the best hex with regards to rivers etc.

Has it been mentioned how much extra land is claimed yet? An entire second ring of hexes is extremely powerful. I fear what the AT will do with this ability. Once it goes into city spam mode, it's going to have so much zones ready to work.

With combat bonus in friendly territory. With pathfinder, Shoshone sounds like extremely nice in early stage of game, which matters most in Civ games.

 

[God of Kings]

Has it been mentioned how much extra land is claimed yet? An entire second ring of hexes is extremely powerful. I fear what the AT will do with this ability. Once it goes into city spam mode, it's going to have so much zones ready to work.

Not just that, but the Shoshone would have a much easier time defending their large territory as well.

 

[Pikachao]

Has it been mentioned how much extra land is claimed yet? An entire second ring of hexes is extremely powerful. I fear what the AT will do with this ability. Once it goes into city spam mode, it's going to have so much zones ready to work.

I guess it depends on the flavors the Shoshone are given. Other than the obvious high exploration bias, I could see Firaxis coding them with a more modest expansion flavor than some other well known rapid expanders like Greece or the Iroquois. I could easily see the UA allowing for a more tradition, defence based playstyle as well as a REX style, so I'd say their flavor would determine whether or not the Shoshone would be an evil AI player.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

I was thinking they might do it in the style of the Maya Long Count/Liberty finisher. Choose one, and then you can't choose it again (unless you've already gotten every other type, which is pretty hard to do). That would stop people from getting 5 free techs in the early game.

That would be a drawback at that point. Other players can find three techs. Or surviving fugitives more than twice their own peoples' tally. There's too much garbage from long count ruins (much like the Mayan long count )
On a crowded map, that extra hammer cost could mean they get less. Or nothing.

 

[Talcove]

Does anyone know how big the combat bonus for being in friendly territory is?

 

[joncnunn]

It will be interesting to see if the AI picks things that reasonable with Pathfinder. The increased cost doesn't matter to the AI on Emperor+ since it starts with a Scout and presumably would have it replaced with their UU. (Is the AI smart enough to avoid choosing "show barb activity"?)

I can clearly see the human though choosing the same item several times in a row if its allowed. (Most likely tech, with the person involved only clearing the ruin on turns he's completed a tech to prevent wasting on a partially researched tech. But maybe if he's bypassed some cheap techs choosing population increase.)

 

[Liex]

Does anyone know how big the combat bonus for being in friendly territory is?

I'd expect something like +15%, just like the old Nationalism policy and the Himeji Castle.

 

[Talcove]

I'd expect something like +15%, just like the old Nationalism policy and the Himeji Castle.

Even that somewhat obsoletes Ethopia's UA. With Ethopia you have to stay small in order to get the 20% bonus. With the Shoshone you can cover an entire continent and still be good at turtling/defense.

Though, Ethopia does still have the Stele and Mehal Safari.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I love the extra territory when founding and the Pathfinder looks strong. I wanted a Comanche civ, but the Comanche UU is good too.

The only thing that bugs me is the extra strength in home territory thing. That's starting to sound like a default bonus, as if they couldn't think of anything else. That's the essense of Ethiopia, and the Berber Cavalry, and part of the Kasbah, and part of the Feitoria for City-states.

 

[Liex]

Even that somewhat obsoletes Ethopia's UA. With Ethopia you have to stay small in order to get the 20% bonus. With the Shoshone you can cover an entire continent and still be good at turtling/defense.

Though, Ethopia does still have the Stele and Mehal Safari.

And the Ethiopia's UA works outside its territory. That wasn't quite useful in G&K, since you should remain small to achieve a cultural victory, but in BNW that may change.

The only thing that bugs me is the extra strength in home territory thing. That's starting to sound like a default bonus, as if they couldn't think of anything else. That's the essense of Ethiopia, and the Berber Cavalry, and part of the Kasbah, and part of the Feitoria for City-states.

and the Nationalism policy, and the Himeji Castle... It's sad to see such a generic bonus as an UA.

 

[Talcove]

It's sad to see such a generic bonus as an UA.

To be fair, it's only one part of their UA. Founding cities with extra territory is pretty unique.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

Oh ****, I just had an epiphany. The Shoshone `ll be wanderin` by yo` lands, snatchin` yo` domain up!

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