discussion..Monoglians moving in our our land

[robboo]

As you can see in the screenshots posted by Sigma. The Mongolians have moved inclose to our lands and now can be considered a threat to our Abydos iron site.

We are weak relatively speaking how ever we can destroy the new mongolians city without too much effort. Unless someone can show me otherwise , I do not believe the monoglians have a copper-based or iron based unit or a horse based one either. So that leaves them with only archers--which are horrible as an offensive weapon against axes and promoted archers.

MY opinion: Despite my appeals for more units we opted for theatres...so we can not field an effective offensive fighting force right now. We need to prepare for war sooner than later. If we wait to much longer our Monoglians neighbors could have better weapons or trade for a metal/horses.

So what are your opinions...

Sigma's screenshots.
Old Sarai (newly founded Mongol city)

Spoiler :

/I will update our troop make up tomorrow.

 

[DaveShack]

If we let the new Mongolian city grow to size 2, will we have the forces for an attack at that time?

We should also look at putting a city north and another east of the Mongolian city and try to squeeze it into a flip. Definitely the one to the north regardless, to ensure the road stays in our territory.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I agree with Dave... Plant the settler to the north and then wait out side of the borders to attack the turn it grows to pop 2

 

[BCLG100]

but do we even have the forces after capturing that city to fight a defensive war???

 

[Tubby Rower]

yes. . . .

EDIT for clarity: defensive wars are easier in You're units heal better in your own territory.

 

[robboo]

Yes I think we will have the forces if we build swords. Plant the settler north around where green dot was suggested or more towards the pigs.

If it was me..I would build units, take that city and then see if there is another city further south of that one that we can take. Our Russian scout is heading north I think so he will be able to give us an over view. Fight a limited war with the goals of taking Old Sirai and the Easternmost Mongolian city. That would effectively box them in and stop any more expansion.

I will look at the save today( in a few hours) and give my asssestment of what forces will be needed before we can attack.

 

[Pajka]

My study of the situation:

1) We should plan the new city according to the decision if we want to keep or not this Old Sarai when we capture it! - If we keep it (although it will probably rise a lot maintenance and therefore reduce the science), then the new city would be good in one of the following positions (for minimum overlap) ... A) 1N of pigs, B) 1N1W of pigs, C) 1N2W of pigs. For minimum unused space would be best A). On the other hand C) get the clams too.
Don't worry about the road ... just take over the new city.
Another option is to destroy the new Mongolian city and found our own where intended ... on site Beta.

2) Get ready for war as quickly as possible! When we founded our City4, we discovered Mongolian land to the south of it ... that means that there is a city which will have in it's radius iron as soon as its cultural borders expand! So we should take out that city too to keep Mongols from building more powerful units. While they have archers as best offensive units, we can easily go on defensive war right now ... if we decide to.

My opinion:

Found new city 1 tile north of the pigs. The road can be adjusted around future Mongolian borders if needed. Build up army quickly. Prepare for take over Old Sarai and the city to the south of our City4.
Wait till Old Sarai grows to size 2 and ATTACK and take over those two Mongolian cities. Then defensive war with pillaging Mongolian land till peace can be signed. Yes I prefer to sign the peace after getting these two cities as we shouldn't get too many cities because we cannot afford it without Code of Laws and we need the science to be able to research it first.

 

[Tubby Rower]

dat's right

 

[robboo]

YEp thats what I agree to also.

OK so what is the next step to getting this war started.
Obivously we need units and then I guess we need some sort of poll to get the citizens opinion.( is that SoS job--declare war.)

I will make a force assestment and then talk to MoI and SoS about getting this thing all properly approved and all.

IS ther anyone who has a differnt opinion speak up now...We dont want to hold up the next Turncaht due to a late breaking opinion that ends up causing a stop order.

 

[BCLG100]

i agree with pajka also, do we know if mongols have hooked up there horses yet?

 

[robboo]

Based on the diplo screens. Mongolia does not have copper or horses since we can trade them to mongolia. We cannot tell about iron yet since we dont have it ourselves. However looking at the map it doesnot appear that they do.

Therefore I am confident that they have archers and warriors.

The bad news is that they are equal to us in power which means they have alot of archers and warriors. Our units...3 warriors, 1 chariots, 3 archers, 6 axes, and 1 spear(total attack value of 42). I can easily see them having 2 archers per our axmen(12) plus another to equal our warrior(13) plus 3 more to equal our spear and chariots(16). 16 archers--total attack value of 42. IF we throw in a few warriors and remove a few archers I guess they have roughly 15 archers and 3 warriors. This makes sense, they have 5 cities, we saw 3 archers in their capitol...asumming some archers loacted out of their cities and this number is very pausible.

Anyone else know better how to read the power graph and what it means....

 

[robboo]

One other thing..the mongolian city is pulling in 4 food... so it will grow to size 2 in 15 turns from founding...2 TCs. We need to attack at that time.

 

[Sigma]

What do you propose we do about science?

I think we have too much invested in Philosophy as of now. It will be completed in 44 turns. The only other two techs that would be useful militarily would be Mathematics->Construction (+50 turns), or Metal Casting (39 turns). By the time we'd have either of those, the window of opportunity will have passed, and we could end up losing the race for Philosophy.

 

[robboo]

I think you maintain the sci going to philosophy. I thik the war might help you by allowing us to demand techs for peace.

This is a limited war against young cities with little or no cultural defense bonus. We really wont need "cats" yet.

I dont see any reason to change our course of actions in the research department..others might disagree.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I don't disagree... We need religion

 

[RockMan]

What do you think about creating two artists in Abydos? Science rate would drop from 42 to 44 but after 25 turns we would have an artist to use as culture bomb and maybe flip the mongolian city in a peaceful way?

 

[ice2k4]

I think that we have to try and flip the city. We already opted for theaters. If we opted for the miltary, we could of done it the aggressive way, but since we took theaters, we can't turn back. Were going to have to strive for culture. And were going to have to either take old sari, or settle somewhere to the north of it, so we're not trapped in my Mongolia. Even taking Old Sari is out of the question, then I think you should consider looking at parts of post (the second on on the thread) to guide us somewhere.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=3891002#post3891002

Please note that I had made that post before considering a few things, and it should not be hevily considered, although parts can be helpful.

 

[robboo]

We cant run 2 artist in Abydos...not enough food. We can run 1 right now (after their theatre is built). Other places(BW) might be able to run it but I didnt check.

 

[xprment626]

Not sure if I posed the question in the right thread, so i will cover it here as well. Robo...do we have any intel on the Khan's allies or lack there of. I favor the "strike at 2" position as put forth, and agree with current ilitary situation. I just wanted all the information on the possible counter attack threats.

Second, have you given any thought to defense plans after we take the two cities? I did notice that you have designated strike groups/Army Corps.

 

[robboo]

I havent checked that but last thing I remember was Russia wasnt too ahppy with him. Th Sec of State might have that info.

Defnse of the new cities will be axes till archers or other untis can be built in placed or ferried down. Defnse of our nation will be some axes and spears..I do not expect any offensive movements by them if they only have archers.

Remember this has not been voted upon The classifications in the SoW thread is more for my record keeping..