Dive into Ancient Lore: A RifE Modmod

[thomas.berubeg]

not at all! seems very good.

and they're all in the stories thread.

 

[Korias]

not at all! seems very good.

and they're all in the stories thread.

Got it. And updated with the Authors who introduced the respective characters.

 

[Valkrionn]

Looks interesting.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Er, one or two quibbles on Goodreau.

First, I've always liked that the Grigori don't favor or fund any religion, period, just as they won't stop any religion, period, unless it violates their laws. So the same reason the Lunnotar could set up would be the same reason a veil temple could be set up. But that comes with no assistance from the state, which Goodreau's offer to fund Lunnotar does.

If it were out of his own pocket as a merchant, sure. Personally, I see the Lunnotar as the 'jews' of Erebus, with powerful financial with hidden public faces who look out for their own, so there could easily be money to be made, but an outright stipend doesn't sound like it would hold up. Neither does Goodreau pursuing another religion, come to that.


Second, instead of replacing the Grigori unique building with a Goodreau-only one, why not simply add a new unique building to the Grigori? Lord knows they need more building options in general, and taking away one of their only ones for just one leader? He's not the only one who has connections to the Lunnotar, one would think.

If you want a leader-specific tie-in to the Lunnotar, why not make a second unique leader trait for him? It could do anything from also allowing Museums (or the new UB) to have +1 priest/Great Prophet Point, or boost the number of Lunnotar, or something else.


Other than that, I love the ideas and hope they can be tied in with the main mod.

 

[Valkrionn]

One point where I think you were confused; The Grigori won't lose the Museum. Goodreau just gets access to a different version, which carries a Priest specialist.

Actually, some of the new trait tags could work here... Merged a few things from Orbis, and traits can now enhance Specialist yield/commerces.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

The point still stands, though; civs should, by and large, have the same buildings regardless of leaders. Main exception would be Scions, but that's a far larger extreme. Putting a difference due to leader trait, rather than changed buildings, is a bit more sensible.

 

[Valkrionn]

It is, yes, but adding a Priest specialist via trait is undesirable for a few reasons:

1. Can't do it yet, the tags don't exist (Minor issue, as I could add them if really needed, but the point still stands)
2. Simply adding a Priest specialist slot via trait would allow you to use it from game start, rather than requiring you to build your empire, acquire the correct tech, and then devote hammers to it.

The second point is the big one, IMO. If a leader is going to have a specialist like this, I think it should be done via building, to keep it from coming too early.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Why not simply add a priest slot to the building? Or make a new building?

Why does the Grigori need a unique building for a single leader alone?

 

[Valkrionn]

Why add a priest slot to a building for the Grigori as a whole? Cassiel would NEVER finance a priest in any way. Goodreau is different, and wants to believe the Luonnotar... I wouldn't add a priest slot, or new building with a priest slot, to the civ as a whole.

It would be trivial to make a new building for his trait (Done for a few other traits, like Tyrant), but then you have to make it useful... Seeing as all that's intended for it is a priest slot, that seems rather useless to me. I really don't have an issue with most Grigori leaders getting the normal museum, while Goodreau gets one with a priest slot.

Hell, if we really wanted to we could make a new building (An addition) which just carries the priest slot... Then if a leader with the Meritocrat trait builds the Museum, they gain the addon as well. Could look at the way the Spider nests and the Alcinus buildings indent... May just be a text key, actually. Fairly sure they are displayed in the city screen in the order they are in the XML, so as long as the new one is right below the Museum it will always display below it... Putting the TAB command in the text key for the Building Name should cause it to display correctly too.

 

[Korias]

There are a few ways that the issue can be handled.

The first is using the current method in which the building provides a +1 GPP for Prophets. The next is in the providing of a Priest Slot in the building itself. The purpose of this is to give a way for the Grigori to achieve the Altar Victory without being incredibly lucky and scoring one through the Amathon/Cerdiwen events or a Dungeon, or waiting until Religious Law for Theocracy.

Now, we could supposedly make an entirely seperate building or Grigori-Specific national wonder, such as an Temple of the Luonnotar that gives the priest specialist, or making a building clone as planned where the Museum gives a Priest Specialist.

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure which method is more balanced. There are alot of variables- having multiple museums versus a single national wonder, a specialist slot versus a free specialist, and Specialist vs straight GPP. The more I think about it, I'm tempted to leave the museum as is and use the National Wonder which gives a free Priest Specialist, avaliable at Ancient Chants.

The purpose of giving Goodreau this differentiation is in the way he thinks- he did lose his daughter and saw her in what is presumably Arawn's Vault, and he is somewhat familiar with the Luonnotar and the whole idea of what occurs when the One returns to Erebus. Cassiel has no specific way to get priests, and Esirce can use his Tolerant trait to get priest specialists, but both require you to go out of your way to do so. Goodreau has this ability from the early on which gives him the ability to start generating Great Prophet Points to build levels of the Altar.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

It just doesn't sit well. Religion, and religious feuds, are the reason why Goodreau came to the Grigori and became Goodreau in the first place. He's not a religious man; rather he was, but he is no longer a religious man of any sorts because of what has made him become Goodreau. The justification just is nearly farce: hey, Goodreau, your daughter was murdered by the gods and you turned your back on all the religions that oppose her murderer to come to a nation of agnostics, why don't you join/fund a tiny cult and that worships another god who has no proof of existing? And not just any of the multitude of pagan cults, but one in particular?

Goodreau lost his daughter... to the gods. He came to the Grigori... to turn his back on them. The Grigori are the truest agnostics in the game; they (as a people/government) don't follow any god, good or evil, for any reason. That's what makes them the Grigori, and not merely a secular Elohiem. "I'll do anything to get my girl back" doesn't quite cover it when (a) he'll be with her when he dies, and (b) pursuing a religious doctrine/goal counters the entire reason for both coming to the Grigori and what the Grigori stand for.

 

[Korias]

I dont have the exact quote, but IIRC, Goodreau's daughter says something along the lines of that they will be together when the One comes. This, plus that being the ONLY thing written with Goodreau, makes me wonder exactly how far he will stick to Cassiel's Agnosticism and how far he, as an individual, is willing to go and how much he is willing to stake on being reunited with his daughter.

Remember that his daughter was not killed by the gods- She was killed by a Veil Worshiper during a ritual sacrifice. Goodreau, as an individual, understands the dangers of the religious fanaticism, but his duty as a father is one of the overriding character traits I wish to exemplify. He was/is Bannor, after all. As for following gods, the very presence of the Luonnotar UU (Replacing the Druid) is representative of some sort of widespread cult in the Grigori lands that substantiates some sort of religious activity (Nevermind that the Cult of the Luonnotar doesnt ACTUALLY know about the Luonnotar, but rather guessed at his existence).

Nevermind that the Grigori have a glaring flaw in their current status (which could be changed) between lore and gameplay- Cassiel, a supposed philosopher and mediator, has access to the earliest and the most powerful heroes in the game if used correctly. For a Civ that starts the game running Pacifisim, that strikes me as a bit odd.

Speaking of which, you're also a little bit off in your idea of the Grigori. While they are by and large an Agnostic and Godless people, religions can spread to their cities, and in the lore, there is nothing saying that the Grigori DONT practice religions on an individual basis. And remember that this is all under Cassiel- not Goodreau. Under Cassiel, there is a clear basis for not practicing religions openly, but what if the Grigori were under Goodreau? They still retain their agnosticism, there is nothing forcing the player to build the Temple of the Luonnotar, and there is nothing making the National Wonder that effective. The whole purpose is to give a way for the Grigori access to the Altar Victory, something which makes sense considering the Luonnotar's presence in Grigori lands.

Goodreau's funding of the Luonnotar in the lore is a choice that I didnt take lightly, since I effectively have to write the next chapter in his story, and still be truthful to the original character. I wrote him significantly after the point where he joins the Grigori, and I also wrote him as an individual that funds many independent entrepreneurs, whether they be adventurers, business owners, artist, or researchers. But I have to think from a gameplay perspective as well as a lore perspective- They have Cassiel, the Agnostic Philosopher, Esirce, the Tolerant Mediator, and then there is Goodreau, who was Financial, and is being replaced with a better version that focuses on the Grigori Adventurer Mechanic, but also gives the player the option to go the builder route as well. Its the same way why the Grigori arent blocked from the Theocracy Civic- its a concious decision to do this by the player and I want to give them that option [the Altar Victory] earlier.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

I dont have the exact quote, but IIRC, Goodreau's daughter says something along the lines of that they will be together when the One comes. This, plus that being the ONLY thing written with Goodreau, makes me wonder exactly how far he will stick to Cassiel's Agnosticism and how far he, as an individual, is willing to go and how much he is willing to stake on being reunited with his daughter.

Elizabeth, the daughter, knows nothing of the One, or the Lunnotar. All Cassiel told her is that the gods heavens aren't the True Heaven, but besides that told nothing about the One, that the Lunnotar are correct, or how (or if) true heaven could be opened. In that same line, he said that people had to improve what they had.

In the Cassiel pedia entry, Goodreau (Tamur) comes before Cassiel, completely renouncing the Bannor and religion that neither protected his daughter or comforted him after, and pledged to do all he could to help Cassiel. He doesn't go "I want my daughter back," or any stated or implied goals of bringing her back to life, but ends the pedia entry with his daughter telling him to follow Cassiel's creed.

At no point does Goodreau hear about the One, the Lunnotar, or the Alter, as any means to reunite with Elizabeth in his life time.

Remember that his daughter was not killed by the gods- She was killed by a Veil Worshiper during a ritual sacrifice. Goodreau, as an individual, understands the dangers of the religious fanaticism, but his duty as a father is one of the overriding character traits I wish to exemplify. He was/is Bannor, after all. As for following gods, the very presence of the Luonnotar UU (Replacing the Druid) is representative of some sort of widespread cult in the Grigori lands that substantiates some sort of religious activity (Nevermind that the Cult of the Luonnotar doesnt ACTUALLY know about the Luonnotar, but rather guessed at his existence).

Veil Worshippers, and priesthoods in general, are representatives of their deities. It is accurate to say Goodreau lost Elizabeth to the gods, because that is exactly who and why she was sacrificed to and for. Elizabeth died because of religion, which is exactly what people flock to the Grigori for.

The Lunnotar are an immigrant group as much as a cult, and a fairly close-knit one; the historical analogy would be jews, who were always distinct and for whom conversions into the group were not historically common*. The Lunnotar are treated the same as any other religion, pagan or otherwise, and while this provides the same protections (which is why they come to the Grigori) it also entails the same restrictions (no government funding of a temple or organized conversions, as MC once put it). A government subsidy for the Lunnotar violates one of the basic principles of the Grigori government.

*In the Grigori lands, the pressures against organized religion and prostelyzing would apply to the Lunnotar as well.

Nevermind that the Grigori have a glaring flaw in their current status (which could be changed) between lore and gameplay- Cassiel, a supposed philosopher and mediator, has access to the earliest and the most powerful heroes in the game if used correctly. For a Civ that starts the game running Pacifisim, that strikes me as a bit odd.

That's a play mechanic argument, not a lore argument. And lore wise, it's off: you're making positions based on player knowledge, not character knowledge.

Your defense rests on that Goodreau would single out and support the religion of the Lunnotar because they are correct about the One, can build the Altar of Lunnotar, which will then bring back the One which will allow Goodreau to reunite with his daughter, which is his overriding objective because he's a Bannor family man.

Except...

-Goodreau wouldn't have reason to know/suspect the Lunnotar to be anything but another cult who's prayers are never answered. The Lunnotar are never mentioned as being exceptional except by accident, which he wouldn't know.

-Government/governors supporting any religion, subsidy or otherwise, goes against Grigori, not just Cassiel, lore. Individuals can do so, but the government doesn't. That's why it's agnostic.

-The Altar of Lunnotar can no more claim to be able to deliver than any other of the World Wonders before they are made. Goodreau isn't a player who can look at the Civlopedia, see 'wow, this will bring the One into creation, thus allowing me to reunite with my daughter in life.' He can no more do that than other leaders could plan to build the Tower of Mastery before it was actually possible. You can't forward plan off of a tech tree you can't see.

-Goodreau openly turns his back on who he was as a Bannor. It's part of casting aside Timur in the first place and becoming Goodreau. He came to Cassiel to help, knowing Cassiel and the Grigori, not the other way around.

Speaking of which, you're also a little bit off in your idea of the Grigori. While they are by and large an Agnostic and Godless people, religions can spread to their cities, and in the lore, there is nothing saying that the Grigori DONT practice religions on an individual basis. And remember that this is all under Cassiel- not Goodreau.

I specifically made a point of using collective, not absolute, description. As a people, the Grigori are agnostic. As a government, the Grigori are agnostic. Individual Grigori adopt religion, but they aren't allowed to press it to others, and the government can't support it at all. That's not even a Cassiel thing, it's a Grigori one. Magist C. has written about it around here somewhere.

That's why I suggested changing the wording so that Goodreau himself would donate his own money on his own behalf for anything. That would be him as an individual, that would work well as a leader trait, and it would neatly sidestep most of the problems I see and go back to the gameplay arguments (about whether they need a new building in general, a replacement for an already existing one, or just a leader trait).

Under Cassiel, there is a clear basis for not practicing religions openly, but what if the Grigori were under Goodreau? They still retain their agnosticism, there is nothing forcing the player to build the Temple of the Luonnotar, and there is nothing making the National Wonder that effective. The whole purpose is to give a way for the Grigori access to the Altar Victory, something which makes sense considering the Luonnotar's presence in Grigori lands.

The solution to that would be to restore the ability of Lunnotar to build the Altar themselves, like they used to. That makes a very handy solution, and I can't even remember why they took it away in the first place. Make that part of Goodreau's unique trait, even, and bam.

My objection is there being any basis for Goodreau to support the Lunnotar as a ruler of the Grigori, let alone being reflected like that. On a lore standpoint, I also question the basis for any assumption for Goodreau returning to good old-fashioned religion after religion is what drove him to the Grigori in the first place. In Erebus, if you want a religion of good that opposes evil, whether vengance or otherwise, you have them. If you want to meet dead family, you can do that too (whether dark arts or simply dying yourself). And if you want to build the Altar of the Lunnotar, any religion can do that. But the Lunnotar don't really have anything in particular to offer. The One doesn't offer prayers, it's not good for the life expectancy in general, and the only benefit is that other gods won't touch you, which really isn't the matter in question.

In short, I just don't see any reason why Goodreau would/should get a unique priest option at all in the context of being a Grigori leader.

Goodreau's funding of the Luonnotar in the lore is a choice that I didnt take lightly, since I effectively have to write the next chapter in his story, and still be truthful to the original character. I wrote him significantly after the point where he joins the Grigori, and I also wrote him as an individual that funds many independent entrepreneurs, whether they be adventurers, business owners, artist, or researchers. But I have to think from a gameplay perspective as well as a lore perspective- They have Cassiel, the Agnostic Philosopher, Esirce, the Tolerant Mediator, and then there is Goodreau, who was Financial, and is being replaced with a better version that focuses on the Grigori Adventurer Mechanic, but also gives the player the option to go the builder route as well. Its the same way why the Grigori arent blocked from the Theocracy Civic- its a concious decision to do this by the player and I want to give them that option [the Altar Victory] earlier.

I disagree about what I disagree with, and think you're wrong about what I've already said. Nothing more, nothing less, and to be honest there isn't much less we could be differing on in regards to your proposal.

I think meritocracy is a great idea. A Adventurer-centered leader would be cool. Overall, I like what you've done. I even think you could go for more. I just don't think replacing a unique building for a leader-specific unique building with a priest slot with your justification is good enough.



So my objection to this point has been... a proposed unique building and half a sentance in your proposed civlopedia entry? Sounds about right.

 

[Korias]

Elizabeth, the daughter, knows nothing of the One, or the Lunnotar. All Cassiel told her is that the gods heavens aren't the True Heaven, but besides that told nothing about the One, that the Lunnotar are correct, or how (or if) true heaven could be opened. In that same line, he said that people had to improve what they had.

In the Cassiel pedia entry, Goodreau (Tamur) comes before Cassiel, completely renouncing the Bannor and religion that neither protected his daughter or comforted him after, and pledged to do all he could to help Cassiel. He doesn't go "I want my daughter back," or any stated or implied goals of bringing her back to life, but ends the pedia entry with his daughter telling him to follow Cassiel's creed.

At no point does Goodreau hear about the One, the Lunnotar, or the Alter, as any means to reunite with Elizabeth in his life time.

Once again, I need to point out that there is only one legitimate account of Goodreau in the lore. Because of this, it leaves the character open for growth. At what point does the pedia entry I write state that Goodreau's financing of the Luonnotar occurs directly after his acceptance into Grigori society?

It doesnt. And therein lies the whole purpose of this arguement- I have written the character of Goodreau quite a long time after his encounter with Cassiel. There is no reason to state that he has yet to hear about the One, Luonnotar, Altar, or any such thing when, over the course of an indeterminate amount of years, he could have picked up the knowledge of the Luonnotar as a Merchant.

Veil Worshippers, and priesthoods in general, are representatives of their deities. It is accurate to say Goodreau lost Elizabeth to the gods, because that is exactly who and why she was sacrificed to and for. Elizabeth died because of religion, which is exactly what people flock to the Grigori for.

The Lunnotar are an immigrant group as much as a cult, and a fairly close-knit one; the historical analogy would be jews, who were always distinct and for whom conversions into the group were not historically common*. The Lunnotar are treated the same as any other religion, pagan or otherwise, and while this provides the same protections (which is why they come to the Grigori) it also entails the same restrictions (no government funding of a temple or organized conversions, as MC once put it). A government subsidy for the Lunnotar violates one of the basic principles of the Grigori government.

*In the Grigori lands, the pressures against organized religion and prostelyzing would apply to the Lunnotar as well.

I would say that a Priest would be an acting representative of a God, but not any run-of-the-mill worshiper. Elizabeth died because of a religion, that much is true, but she died at the hand of a worshipper. A fanatic. To me, from what I read of Cassiel's pedia entry, that blind faith is what Goodreau fled from.

Also, I believe you need to re-read the pedia entry I wrote for him. You seem to fail to grasp the fact that it is not a government stipend, but rather a personal stipend. Goodreau is funding the Luonnotar from his own pocket, not out of the government budget. Moreover, I am well aware of the treatment of religions in Grigori lands, and I would like to point out that this is represented in both lore and gameplay- Goodreau specifically states

However, I am a merchant, and I see an opportunity here. I’ll give you a chance to spread your faith amongst the people as I have let all religions do so, and you will have a stipend to construct a temple in Midgar. But hear me well- we are no theocracy.

If anywhere in the lore proves that religions simply dont exist in Grigori lands and dont spread at all, then I'll let it fall. But its hard to imagine that there isnt the occasional temple that exists somewhere. Goodreau isnt proclaiming a theocracy or advocating a state religion, he is simply funding the creation of a temple from out of his own personal funds.

That's a play mechanic argument, not a lore argument. And lore wise, it's off: you're making positions based on player knowledge, not character knowledge.

I'm making positions based on my knowledge as a player and as a writer. I'm not going to introduce a mechanic that does not improve the gameplay in a way that the lore supports.

Your defense rests on that Goodreau would single out and support the religion of the Lunnotar because they are correct about the One, can build the Altar of Lunnotar, which will then bring back the One which will allow Goodreau to reunite with his daughter, which is his overriding objective because he's a Bannor family man.


Except...

-Goodreau wouldn't have reason to know/suspect the Lunnotar to be anything but another cult who's prayers are never answered. The Lunnotar are never mentioned as being exceptional except by accident, which he wouldn't know.

See above as to why this is not true.

-Government/governors supporting any religion, subsidy or otherwise, goes against Grigori, not just Cassiel, lore. Individuals can do so, but the government doesn't. That's why it's agnostic.

Once again, please re-read the pedia entry and note the fact that he is supporting the Luonnotar out of his own pocket.

-The Altar of Lunnotar can no more claim to be able to deliver than any other of the World Wonders before they are made. Goodreau isn't a player who can look at the Civlopedia, see 'wow, this will bring the One into creation, thus allowing me to reunite with my daughter in life.' He can no more do that than other leaders could plan to build the Tower of Mastery before it was actually possible. You can't forward plan off of a tech tree you can't see.

I am well aware of this. But at this point, I can only reffer you to my arguements I've already made. This Goodreau is not the same Goodreau as before, there has been a LONG period of time since he met with Cassiel. People, and characters, are not static elements. They can change with time, and I think I've accomplished portraying that growth.

-Goodreau openly turns his back on who he was as a Bannor. It's part of casting aside Timur in the first place and becoming Goodreau. He came to Cassiel to help, knowing Cassiel and the Grigori, not the other way around.

Admittedly, using "He's a Bannor" was a rather stupid arguement. But keep in mind that he is still a Father. The concept of a family differs little between the Bannor and the Grigori, and that is something that I dont think will change. One does not simply stop loving their children because they change nationality.

I specifically made a point of using collective, not absolute, description. As a people, the Grigori are agnostic. As a government, the Grigori are agnostic. Individual Grigori adopt religion, but they aren't allowed to press it to others, and the government can't support it at all. That's not even a Cassiel thing, it's a Grigori one. Magist C. has written about it around here somewhere.

I know. Believe me, I've had an entire arguement with Magister on this topic before.

That's why I suggested changing the wording so that Goodreau himself would donate his own money on his own behalf for anything. That would be him as an individual, that would work well as a leader trait, and it would neatly sidestep most of the problems I see and go back to the gameplay arguments (about whether they need a new building in general, a replacement for an already existing one, or just a leader trait).

If it isnt clear, I will edit the pedia entry as such.

The solution to that would be to restore the ability of Lunnotar to build the Altar themselves, like they used to. That makes a very handy solution, and I can't even remember why they took it away in the first place. Make that part of Goodreau's unique trait, even, and bam.

IIRC, it was removed because the Luonnotar could build ALL the levels of the altar, where everyone else had to wait for Great Prophets to do so.

Its an interesting solution, but once again defeats the purpose of getting the Altar started early, as opposed to when the player gets Commune with Nature.

My objection is there being any basis for Goodreau to support the Lunnotar as a ruler of the Grigori, let alone being reflected like that. On a lore standpoint, I also question the basis for any assumption for Goodreau returning to good old-fashioned religion after religion is what drove him to the Grigori in the first place.

The whole Father-Daughter connection, time gap, and personal link, not as a ruler, but as an individual, dont solve that issue?

In Erebus, if you want a religion of good that opposes evil, whether vengance or otherwise, you have them. If you want to meet dead family, you can do that too (whether dark arts or simply dying yourself).

Yes, and the Luonnotar are not functioning like an in game religion does. It doesnt spread from city to city, its got one building chain that starts with a hefty hammer cost (450 hammers is the cost I have in my notes and will be the basic cost).

And if you want to build the Altar of the Lunnotar, any religion can do that.

Last time I checked, you had to be Good or Neutral to build the Altar (which I'm assuming remains the same as of the new Alignment system, where LG, NG, CG, LN, NN, and CN can build the Altar). Therfore, no, not all religions can build the altar.

But the Lunnotar don't really have anything in particular to offer. The One doesn't offer prayers, it's not good for the life expectancy in general, and the only benefit is that other gods won't touch you, which really isn't the matter in question.

In short, I just don't see any reason why Goodreau would/should get a unique priest option at all in the context of being a Grigori leader.
I disagree about what I disagree with, and think you're wrong about what I've already said. Nothing more, nothing less, and to be honest there isn't much less we could be differing on in regards to your proposal.

I think meritocracy is a great idea. A Adventurer-centered leader would be cool. Overall, I like what you've done. I even think you could go for more. I just don't think replacing a unique building for a leader-specific unique building with a priest slot with your justification is good enough.

I'm not replacing a building, I'm adding an entirely new, optional, national wonder. The original plan was to replace a building with an exact replica of the Museum. The only change is that it would give it a Priest Slot as well. This idea has been changed to be a National Wonder that replaces no buildings and is completely optional.

So my objection to this point has been... a proposed unique building and half a sentance in your proposed civlopedia entry? Sounds about right.

Your objection has been to a good portion of the character and concept, which would require me to re-write the pedia entry (for a third time) to reflect the more adventurer-based aspects so that it leaves out the Luonnotar but still reflects Goodreau's personae. If he doesnt have this building, why did he meet with the Luonnotar in the first place? Half the pedia entry is gone right then and there.

On a side note, I love how one simple thing can generate pages and pages of text.

 

[Korias]

There seems to be an issue with the code somewhere- imported changes seem to consistenly and repeatedly CTD either during Mod Startup or during Map initialization. Not sure whats causing it. I wont upload until I know that it is stable.

 

[Valkrionn]

Maybe upload in the RifE group thread, so I can look at it for you?

I sent you an invite to Google Wave, by the way, so you should be able to sign up.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

On a side note, I love how one simple thing can generate pages and pages of text.

Don't you love how pages and pages of text can be simplified into a single, irreverent reply?

 

[Almagafor]

Is this project still coming along or has it been dropped?

 

[Korias]

Is this project still coming along or has it been dropped?

It's still coming along Even though I haven't updated the thread, alot of the material has been pulled back into the hidden boundaries of "Team Only" because quite a bit of the work had to integrate into new features. Goodreau is an example of this: Since leaders are getting redone, Goodreau had to be put on relative hold until the main mod has it's major work done. The Heroes are relatively modular so they can be released at any moment, but I'm keeping them hidden for a while since, while all of them are finished, they are still rather... unfinished. Sometime's the AI simply ignores them in build orders, and getting them to revive correctly is still an issue, but there are a couple others which I'm getting ironed out. Dont worry, expect to see something soon

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Just an idea for how to add the build altar options back to the Luonotar. Simply tie the various build level "x" spells to a prerequisite level, then have the spell kill the caster. This represents the civ having to work on developing units and sacrifice them to create the altar.

Also, I am developing a unique leader for the Grigori in the "Testers group," not sure if you have access, but maybe have a look at what I've got there and tell me if I'm stepping on any toes.