Bad Player
Deity
Yes please sign me up as Junil - I just wanted to check what you guys think of my strategy (ie that I'm playing the game correctly).
Divine Intervention Games in FFH
- Thread starter Lade
- Start date
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
A Divine Intervention game in my modmod might be good eventually, but it should probably wait at least until my next update. I cannot say when that will be. I've fixed a few things since my last release, but some issues depend on Tholal finding enough time away from his infant twins to fix a few things in the dll.
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Actually, my modmod does contain a couple things that are not exactly canon, but they are still pretty close.
It is canon that there was a Blue Dragon slain during the Age of Ice (even if it only became canon because Nikis-Knight wrote it into an Age of Ice pedia entry after seeing Drifa's art without checking her lore), but I made up all the details about Thalath myself.
It is canon that that Basium's War Hammer traps unclean souls, but it is not canon that it is called the Malleus Vindex. At one point I made up a very non-canon background story for this equipment (in which it once belonged to Basium's best friend Talis, an angel of retribution in the service of Junil, who much to Basium's dismay falls and becomes a champion of Aeron), but that is not actually included in the mod.
Kael decided to change the canon to make Yvain a Treant instead of an Elf, just because he wanted to use a piece of art made for the Warhammer mod. I did not like this change. I don't care for those graphics, and I considered it inconsistent with the established canon of what Treants are. (Treants are plants, usually trees but occasionally flowers, that are temporarily possessed by the spirit of a forest in order to deal with immediate threats. Erebusian Treants would not stick around for one year, much less thousands. Ok, I guess Yvain could technically be the spirit of the Umbrawood that happens to have possessed various trees over the ages, but that was never firmly established and is not my favorite theory.) When the lore about Satyrs was established, I decided that I preferred to depart from Kael's canon and make Yvain a Satyr. This allows me to reinterpret Yvain's earlier epithet of "The Favorite Son of Cerunnos" literally. I like to think of him as Gowers younger brother, the only surviving first generation Satyr. I thus use Satyr art for him instead of the Warhammer Treant, although I haven't actually altered the 'pedia to endorse my theory.
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Whoever plays as Amathaon should keep in mind that this god is pretty capricious. He does not care about worship any more than Arawn does, but is not as non-interventionist. It seems that he never punishes anyone and is quite random in deciding whom to bless. He himself is good, but he'll still help those who happen to be evil. The Balseraphs love him.
It would be rather odd for the same person to play as both Gyra and Laroth, as Gyra is focused on fighting against Laroth.
Junil actually strongly dislikes the Compact and thinks it was a mistake, but because he swore and oath to protect it cannot bring himself even close to violating its terms. He would very much prefer to act like his close ally Bhall did in the Age of Magic, sending huge armies to purge evil from the world. He does not like balance or compromise, which are the heart of the compact, but Oaths are very much in his sphere. The pedia makes it sound like he broke one oath though, as he promised not to interfere in creation and then decided he had to help The Order when the Veil seemed too big a threat.
Lugus likes equality in addition to openness and honesty. He is the god of revelation, but the epiphanies he grants are more like sudden insights into what could be figured out from available information rather than hidden knowledge available only through a miracle. He would like revealing things, but it not omniscient and cannot just give away any information. Having Lugus reveal the whole map or give away technologies beyond what anyone knows would be too much, but it would be quite reasonable for Lugus to share maps and technologies that one player knows with other players who are less advanced. Lugus favors those who have repented their evil ways over those who have always been pure. However, unlike Sirona, he is not quick to forgive and forget. He is not gentle, but can be as tough as Junil. He insists that we remember our sins, learn from them, and prove our change of conscience by doing do penance working to make the world a better place. The Bannor consider the Empyrean too talkative and Basium does not think Lugus is interventionist enough against demons, but in the scenarios the Empyrean actually fights demons more then The Order does.
Since Nantosuelta represents individual virtue and resents oppressive social relations based on position, I could see whoever plays as her freeing vassals and canceling trade agreements (particularly things that were demanded in tribute).
Since Ceridwen is all about unhealthy social relations based on position, whoever plays as her could reek havoc by randomly making and breaking defensive pacts and vassalage agreements. Remember that she (like Aeron) favors the powerful over the weak, and so would want to make the game less balanced by helping those who are already ahead and hurting those who are behind. Also, helping the strongest player may be the best way to hasten the end of the game, and this "the end of the world." She would still do things to drive the AC up too of course, and prefer evil over good.
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Actually, my modmod does contain a couple things that are not exactly canon, but they are still pretty close.
It is canon that there was a Blue Dragon slain during the Age of Ice (even if it only became canon because Nikis-Knight wrote it into an Age of Ice pedia entry after seeing Drifa's art without checking her lore), but I made up all the details about Thalath myself.
It is canon that that Basium's War Hammer traps unclean souls, but it is not canon that it is called the Malleus Vindex. At one point I made up a very non-canon background story for this equipment (in which it once belonged to Basium's best friend Talis, an angel of retribution in the service of Junil, who much to Basium's dismay falls and becomes a champion of Aeron), but that is not actually included in the mod.
Kael decided to change the canon to make Yvain a Treant instead of an Elf, just because he wanted to use a piece of art made for the Warhammer mod. I did not like this change. I don't care for those graphics, and I considered it inconsistent with the established canon of what Treants are. (Treants are plants, usually trees but occasionally flowers, that are temporarily possessed by the spirit of a forest in order to deal with immediate threats. Erebusian Treants would not stick around for one year, much less thousands. Ok, I guess Yvain could technically be the spirit of the Umbrawood that happens to have possessed various trees over the ages, but that was never firmly established and is not my favorite theory.) When the lore about Satyrs was established, I decided that I preferred to depart from Kael's canon and make Yvain a Satyr. This allows me to reinterpret Yvain's earlier epithet of "The Favorite Son of Cerunnos" literally. I like to think of him as Gowers younger brother, the only surviving first generation Satyr. I thus use Satyr art for him instead of the Warhammer Treant, although I haven't actually altered the 'pedia to endorse my theory.
----
Whoever plays as Amathaon should keep in mind that this god is pretty capricious. He does not care about worship any more than Arawn does, but is not as non-interventionist. It seems that he never punishes anyone and is quite random in deciding whom to bless. He himself is good, but he'll still help those who happen to be evil. The Balseraphs love him.
It would be rather odd for the same person to play as both Gyra and Laroth, as Gyra is focused on fighting against Laroth.
Junil actually strongly dislikes the Compact and thinks it was a mistake, but because he swore and oath to protect it cannot bring himself even close to violating its terms. He would very much prefer to act like his close ally Bhall did in the Age of Magic, sending huge armies to purge evil from the world. He does not like balance or compromise, which are the heart of the compact, but Oaths are very much in his sphere. The pedia makes it sound like he broke one oath though, as he promised not to interfere in creation and then decided he had to help The Order when the Veil seemed too big a threat.
Lugus likes equality in addition to openness and honesty. He is the god of revelation, but the epiphanies he grants are more like sudden insights into what could be figured out from available information rather than hidden knowledge available only through a miracle. He would like revealing things, but it not omniscient and cannot just give away any information. Having Lugus reveal the whole map or give away technologies beyond what anyone knows would be too much, but it would be quite reasonable for Lugus to share maps and technologies that one player knows with other players who are less advanced. Lugus favors those who have repented their evil ways over those who have always been pure. However, unlike Sirona, he is not quick to forgive and forget. He is not gentle, but can be as tough as Junil. He insists that we remember our sins, learn from them, and prove our change of conscience by doing do penance working to make the world a better place. The Bannor consider the Empyrean too talkative and Basium does not think Lugus is interventionist enough against demons, but in the scenarios the Empyrean actually fights demons more then The Order does.
Since Nantosuelta represents individual virtue and resents oppressive social relations based on position, I could see whoever plays as her freeing vassals and canceling trade agreements (particularly things that were demanded in tribute).
Since Ceridwen is all about unhealthy social relations based on position, whoever plays as her could reek havoc by randomly making and breaking defensive pacts and vassalage agreements. Remember that she (like Aeron) favors the powerful over the weak, and so would want to make the game less balanced by helping those who are already ahead and hurting those who are behind. Also, helping the strongest player may be the best way to hasten the end of the game, and this "the end of the world." She would still do things to drive the AC up too of course, and prefer evil over good.
Bad Player
Deity
If we aren't using your modmod then what shall we use?
Verdian
King
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 654
I know your mod isn't perfect, MC, but I still plan on using it. I've run many games with it, and never ran into any game breaking problems. As we have a bunch of people using world builder, I'd imagine any problems that do come up can be fixed by them.
The lore you do use is close enough to the roots of FFH that it is fine. The name of Basium's hammer doesn't matter, but it's ability is important. And I've always preferred the original Yvain as well.
What it comes down to is, MagistersMod stays very, very close to cannon lore, while still adding a lot of new, fun things to play with.
Also, I don't see any problem with the person playing as Gyra also acting as Laroth. They are just presenting those characters to the player, not trying to actually defeat each other.
The lore you do use is close enough to the roots of FFH that it is fine. The name of Basium's hammer doesn't matter, but it's ability is important. And I've always preferred the original Yvain as well.
What it comes down to is, MagistersMod stays very, very close to cannon lore, while still adding a lot of new, fun things to play with.
Also, I don't see any problem with the person playing as Gyra also acting as Laroth. They are just presenting those characters to the player, not trying to actually defeat each other.
Bad Player
Deity
Verdian/whoever - why are we using patch j instead of the latest patch o??? 
And does it matter much? I thought there was no further patches after 'o', just unofficial ones and modmods.
MagisterCultuum's thread for his modmod mentions that using vanilla FfH2 patched with Tholal's More Naval AI will play nice with his installer, so I've used that.
MagisterCultuum's thread for his modmod mentions that using vanilla FfH2 patched with Tholal's More Naval AI will play nice with his installer, so I've used that.
Bad Player
Deity
OK latest patch is o, are we using any unofficial patches (I don't want to be incompatible with MC's mod or with other people)?
Empedocles
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 18, 2012
- Messages
- 62
Tholal's mod says that it automatically patches the game up to 'o', so Magister's mod probably does the same.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
My mod includes every file that Tholal's contains that differs from patch o plus all the files that I changed. If you install my modmod over More Naval AI or over patch o you should be fine, but if you install it directly over a version of FfH2 prior to patch o there might be a few minor differences here and there.
After glancing at the changelog, I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be any issue with using my modmod with patch m or n. It would probably work fine with patch k or l, but a few units would use different artwork. That should not really matter for single player games but might cause synchronization issues in multiplayer games. With patch j or older there would be the more serious issue of Disciples of Acheron and Sons of the Inferno having no artwork at all. I think that could cause the game to crash once one of them is spawned.
After glancing at the changelog, I'm pretty sure that there wouldn't be any issue with using my modmod with patch m or n. It would probably work fine with patch k or l, but a few units would use different artwork. That should not really matter for single player games but might cause synchronization issues in multiplayer games. With patch j or older there would be the more serious issue of Disciples of Acheron and Sons of the Inferno having no artwork at all. I think that could cause the game to crash once one of them is spawned.
Bad Player
Deity
I've been playing MC's mod and I like the changes! And it's not too different from FFH2 so it's easy to understand (so far anyway...).
I'm keen to get this game started but I will need to ask other gods for help with doing stuff in the world builder if that's cool.
I'm keen to get this game started but I will need to ask other gods for help with doing stuff in the world builder if that's cool.
Lade
Prince
I think I'd like to sign up as Kilmorph.
Bad Player
Deity
I think thematically the good gods shouldn't backstab eachother but evil gods should be open to that (to compensate for more power).
We can only have 1 player, is that right Verdian?
We can only have 1 player, is that right Verdian?
The good Gods all have their own agendas which may work at cross-purposes. Even where they are agreed on an objective, they will have different opinions on the best way to achieve it. (Did I mention I'll be playing as Esus
?)
Any "back-stabbing" should be choreographed through the hermetic lore thread.
?)Any "back-stabbing" should be choreographed through the hermetic lore thread.
Bad Player
Deity
Could we advertise this game in this forum: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=445
PPl know of FFH2 a bit even if they don't play.
PPl know of FFH2 a bit even if they don't play.
Bad Player
Deity
Where's a good place to get those cool fantasy pics to post, should I want them to make my story more vivid?
Bad Player
Deity
I spent a bit of time learning some python and doing a copy-paste-modify job to add a quest in DI5 for Verdian - I hope you'll allow me to modify the XML and a python file. I'm going to post the code in the Hermetic Lore thread (I checked with someone else about the code and they said it was fine).
