dl1 -- Xenophobia

[dl123654]

After being here for a while I've finally decided to create a succession game. I wanted a very difficult game but on the lower difficulities.

Version: C3C
Difficutly: Regent
World Size and Settings: Standard, Pangaea 60% Ocean, Warm, Wet, 5 Billion, will take the first roll unless its very bad.
Barbarians: Sendentary
Civ = Babylon
Opponents = Random
AI aggression = Least
Victory Condictions: All but wonder, however we will be going for 100k
Usual 24/48 hour rule

Variant:
Incase you didn't know xenophobia is defined as:

A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

Being xenophobic entails that:
1: We never trade, create embassies, alliances, stealing techs ect. We are also definant. However we are able to get peace no matter who pays for it and may give/take as much as we want during that trade. We ask units to leave our territory when they violate our space. Foreign workers are also disbanded.
2: No offensive units. We have no interest in the AI's land therefore no offensive units can be made. All non-combat units, bombardment and units that have higher defensive than offensive are buildable. An expception is made for units created by SoZ and KT these are exceptable.
3: Government restrictions. We may only have Despotism and Fascism (their xenophobic by definition), when we reach the Industrial Age we must research staight to Fasism and revolt.
4: Most important, we may never leave our territory for any reason (we are afraid of the outside and anyone that goes there doesn't come back). If a unit is outside of our territory even for a second it must be disbanded. This includes fighting a stack across boarders and retreating (bombardment is fine).

We may build as many cities as we want, we can also accept any city wishing to revolt to us (they have seen the light and wish to be like us, therefore they are no longer foreign to us).

I tested this variant and was able to get a 100k win in 1792AD using an ideal map and a lot of luck. Lets see how this one goes.

Roster:
dl123654
demonpoet
DaveShack
*Open*
*Open*

 

[ThERat]

lurker comment:

we played a similar variant, facism is really interesting

but how do you play this?

Most important, we may never leave our territory for any reason

how do you settle new towns? you mean only within the expanded borders?

 

[Methos]

Lurker's comment: I'd suggest you at least allow settlers outside of you're territory, or else how are you going to expand? Or are you going to do it the hard way and have a city build a cultural improvement, let your cultural boundaries expand, and than settle CxC?

Oh yeah, not a sign up.

Edit: Cross post.

 

[dl123654]

I found if you build a temple first then start settlers in the capital by the second settler you have CXXC, my capital stayed at about size 10 the entire game after the early expansion.

Later cities will be ICS but they are so currupt that they can't build anything anyway. However in Despotism and Facism you have the . A temple can be build in 10 turns if the city has 2 food. With the Pymarids this goes even faster. Most of my cities in the end had a temple, library, university and catherial. And when you are able to ICS around enemy cities they convert in no time.

 

[demonpoet]

I'll sign up. I was wondering about the expansion, since we can see beyond our borders one tile that we would know that land somewhat, and thus would be able to step out one tile with a settler to build. Our fear though could require that we have 2 defensive units to occompany our settlers in such a dangerous mission. However, if we can see a border we can't go near it in this fashion. However, I will go with the rules as stated unless you decide to make this exception. \

A couple questions, I'm new to the boards and this will be my second SG, since the other I joined will probably start first.

What is Defiant, does this mean we refuse any attempt by the AI to contact us?

Being as we are, do we immediately attack any foreign unit that comes into our territory?

I assume slaves are immediately disbanded if we somehow aquire them? ex. a settler comes into our territory and we are attacking any foreigners that enter.

Hopefully we get a few more players so we can actually play.

 

[dl123654]

I'll sign up.

Welcome to my succession game and to CF Forums.

since we can see beyond our borders one tile that we would know that land somewhat, and thus would be able to step out one tile with a settler to build

When I tried this I had no units leave, however since no one is signing up that might be a good idea. I would be willing to allow only settlers to leave by 1 square if that got more people into the game.

What is Defiant, does this mean we refuse any attempt by the AI to contact us?

Defiant is not giving into AI demands.

Being as we are, do we immediately attack any foreign unit that comes into our territory?

I think demanding them to leave would be first would be a better idea, then war if they don't leave.

I assume slaves are immediately disbanded if we somehow aquire them? ex. a settler comes into our territory and we are attacking any foreigners that enter.

Didn't think of that either, I say we disband.

Hopefully we get a few more players so we can actually play.

Me too. Maybe if I roll the start I could get others interested.

 

[DaveShack]

Finally, a SG which isn't full by the time I get to it late at night Arizona time. Count me in.

 

[demonpoet]

That's 3 now, only need a couple more. If we don't start soon, I might have to try this variant on my own...well, after one of my other two games are completed...um...maybe.

 

[dl123654]

Good we have 3 now, I'm considering starting this game and leave it open for more people. Do we go with the orginal varient with no settlers leaving or with leaving by 1 space? Will post the starting 20 sometime tonight after I'm done moving into college.

 

[demonpoet]

I'm fine not leaving, although I think that stepping one step out of the border is within the parameters, since we can see the land. However, if an enemy border, or unit, is seen we can't step out that way, and if stepping out that way reveals one, we must quickly retreat back to the safety of home. However, it's up to you, I will play it the way you want it, if not I wouldn't have joined, right?

 

[dl123654]

Rolled a start, it gave us:

Preturn 4000BC:
Found on site, start temple, research on Masonry in 24 (we have plenty of time for Great Library)

Turn 1 3950BC:
Mine BG

Turn 7 3650BC:
Mine complete road next

Turn 10 3500BC:
Growth
Road complete, moving to other bg
Boarder expansion, see goody hut to the north spices to the south in the jungle and what looks like ocean (colossus)

Turn 11 3450BC:
Road bg

Turn 12 3400BC:
Temple finishes, settler in 8, growth in 8, Mas in 8

Turn 14 3300BC:
Road complete, mine

Turn 19 3050BC:
Mas->Alphabet in 18

Turn 20 3000BC:
Settler->Spear
Left the settler unmoved to decide on boarder expansion rules and direction.

Save

I would like to keep it like I orginially had it, but I see your point demonpoet about the 1 space idea. I'm not sure about DaveShack's choice in this matter and I would like to hear from the entire team before the decision is made.

After the choice the roster goes:
dl123654 played
demonpoet up
DaveShack on deck

 

[DaveShack]

At first glance the idea of always settling inside our borders seems too hard, but maybe it will work out. Regent should be forgiving enough to let us get away with it. Personally I don't like building so close but it might make a good change of pace, so I'm not against the idea. (how's that for some double negatives)

We can fit 6 cities inside the current borders if we want it to be really packed, or 4 to aim for something less packed. Away from the coast to begin with looks better than toward it, so something north.

 

[dl123654]

Based on everyones views on the variant I've decided that we will not have settlers leave our boarders.

We can fit 6 cities inside the current borders if we want it to be really packed, or 4 to aim for something less packed. Away from the coast to begin with looks better than toward it, so something north.

We want to give the capitial a little more space then that, remember we will get boarder expansion in about 15 turns so the next settler will be able to go farther.

 

[demonpoet]

Got it, I will play tomorrow after work. Have a few things to do today and a family get together tonight.

 

[demonpoet]

Ok, I played 1 turn, and upon founding Nineveh the goody hut gave us a conscript Warrior. I think we should disband the 'foreign' warrior, however I will set it out for discussion and not make a 'command decision'. I am up in another SG so I will save now and take my turns in it. If I have no word by tomorrow, I will finish out my turnset disbanding the copnscript warrior.

 

[dl123654]

Not only is the warrior foreign it is also an offensive unit, disband it.

 

[demonpoet]

That's what I thought, I just wanted to be certain. I'll fiinish the turnset tomorrow

 

[demonpoet]

Pre-turn;

Move Settler to northern plains to build. I figure when Nineveh expands from this position the next city can be built in a nice spot right across the river. Move worker to north-western forest to clear to accelerate our temple build.

2950BC turn 1

Worker begins to clear forest. Nineveh Founded, conscript warrior gifted from a foreign tribe, disbanded.

IT-Palace Expanded.

2900BC turn 2

nothing

2850BC turn 3

Same as 2900BC

2800BC turn 4

Same as 2950BC

2750BC turn 5

Deforestation complete. Temple from 7 to 3 turns. Begin irrigation.

2710BC turn 6

nothing

2670BC turn 7

Spearman done in Babylon, begin another.
Drop science to 80% since we are now broke. It gives us +1gpt, so the Temple in Nineveh is paid for when it's completed next turn.

2630BC turn 8

Temple complete, begin Worker.

2590BC turn 9

Irrigation complete, begin road.

2550BC turn 10

Micro-manage our cities to elimante waste and give Babylon 5 SPT

Science dropped to 70% now that 80% is deficit. We can do 1 turn at 80% and spend that last gold in our Treasury, but will lose a Temple if we don't change it before we drop below 0.

Next build in Babylon could be Settler, but in order to grow before it's completed switch off the mined BG, which Nineveh could use. Might be best to simply build another Spear and try to complete our next Settler soon after Babylon reachs size 4.

Nineveh's next build will be either a Spear or a Barracks. Too soon to build another Worker or Settler I think.

I was thinking about walking the Spear around the inside of our border, sort of a patrol. However, I wasn't sure if looking beyond our borders was keeping with the spirit of the xenophobia. My thinking was that it wasn't for looking, but for being prepared in case anything foreign started towards our territory.

Ok, so that's just a rationalization for wanting to step up into the mtn's to see out, I'm so much the explorer when I play this game...

 

[DaveShack]

Got it, pretty much have to play tonight or be skipped because I'm going on a business trip tomorrow and it's likely the next chance to play would be Thursday.

There are a few units with equal offensive and defensive stats, I'd prefer them to be classified as defensive. Guerillas for example, if it lasts that long -- ok not the best example maybe but the first one other than warriors which comes to mind. What are the stats on our UU BTW? If it's offensive, we're doing this without ever having a GA?

I played a random start using the same parameters as this game for training, and have a question. Did you really set the aggression level to minimum? That might help keep us from getting dogpiled, but it also pretty much guarantees that if we want a war (to "win" concessions from the enemy) we'll have to be the ones who declare. In my test game I surged ahead in tech being 1st to the middle ages, and then rapidly fell behind.

 

[demonpoet]

I like the fact that we don't build units unless the def is higher. There is no need to worry about going to war for any reason, other then to keep the AI out of our territory or if they declare do to our defiance.

This is on Regent, so we should be able to outpace the AI in tech no problem. I think we do need to get a productive city on the coast asap so that we can build the Collosus in order to speed up science.

Building south on the river as soon as Babylon expands seems like a great plan. Then cut forests to build the temple and hope there are a few BG's underneath. I would say build a temple and Granary, making use of the forest sheilds and allowing us to grow faster, then Collosus, .

I also think we should refrain from building any other cities within this citiy's radius, since it's proximity to Babylon will reduce corruption and allow it to build wonders for culture.

I think we should use Nineveh to expand around our capital, and then out in concentric cirlces. However, dl has played this before, so he might know better how to expand outwards.