DLC 05 anticipation thread

[Tacgnol]

You guys, Singapore is not going to be added to the game as its own civ prior to the first expansion, like...cmon.

Although it's quite likely it will be added with the SEA civ as a city state as part of the same dlc.

Like, cmon, baseless speculation is fun but you gotta reality check yourself, there isn't gonna be, like, a Madagascar civilization or some obscure and poorly documented ancient civ no one has ever heard of before the actual major civilizations with an impact on world history like Mali and Ethiopia are in game. SEA is a bit different because traditionally they've just picked 1 or 2 civs to represent in each game but still it's like Malaysia, Siam, Indonesia, Vietnam, or Cambodia, not Singapore...

 

[Leyrann]

You guys, Singapore is not going to be added to the game as its own civ prior to the first expansion, like...cmon.

Although it's quite likely it will be added with the SEA civ as a city state as part of the same dlc.

Like, cmon, baseless speculation is fun but you gotta reality check yourself, there isn't gonna be, like, a Madagascar civilization or some obscure and poorly documented ancient civ no one has ever heard of before the actual major civilizations with an impact on world history like Mali and Ethiopia are in game. SEA is a bit different because traditionally they've just picked 1 or 2 civs to represent in each game but still it's like Malaysia, Siam, Indonesia, Vietnam, or Cambodia, not Singapore...

And it was so obvious we were going to get Kongo, Poland, Macedon, Brazil, Australia, do I need to go on?

Also, even if you are right, no need to use such a condescending tone.

 

[slyone14]

You guys, Singapore is not going to be added to the game as its own civ prior to the first expansion, like...cmon.

Although it's quite likely it will be added with the SEA civ as a city state as part of the same dlc.

Like, cmon, baseless speculation is fun but you gotta reality check yourself, there isn't gonna be, like, a Madagascar civilization or some obscure and poorly documented ancient civ no one has ever heard of before the actual major civilizations with an impact on world history like Mali and Ethiopia are in game. SEA is a bit different because traditionally they've just picked 1 or 2 civs to represent in each game but still it's like Malaysia, Siam, Indonesia, Vietnam, or Cambodia, not Singapore...

Lol I can understand, you are new but dang such a harsh tone. FYI, that is the entire point of this thread. It's fun, we enjoy this part.

 

[Kyro]

You guys, Singapore is not going to be added to the game as its own civ prior to the first expansion, like...cmon.

Although it's quite likely it will be added with the SEA civ as a city state as part of the same dlc.

Like, cmon, baseless speculation is fun but you gotta reality check yourself, there isn't gonna be, like, a Madagascar civilization or some obscure and poorly documented ancient civ no one has ever heard of before the actual major civilizations with an impact on world history like Mali and Ethiopia are in game. SEA is a bit different because traditionally they've just picked 1 or 2 civs to represent in each game but still it's like Malaysia, Siam, Indonesia, Vietnam, or Cambodia, not Singapore...

Mockery aside; looking at the trend Civ 6 has now I think the message they are trying to convey is "Any Civilization can be included in Civilization"; and the traditional stance that the Civilizations featured in the series "must" be of historical importance/empires no longer holds water. Which means your idea on how Civs are chosen is becoming obsolete.

Choosing Singapore to be featured brings that message across crystal clear because it silences the notion that there are "insignificant" civilizations that shouldn't be featured. There is no such thing as a Civilization that is unimportant.

From a marketing perspective this is actually very smart as it gives justification for more and more dlcs to be pumped out in the name of giving every Civ a fair chance.

 

[PhilBowles]

You guys, Singapore is not going to be added to the game as its own civ prior to the first expansion, like...cmon.

Although it's quite likely it will be added with the SEA civ as a city state as part of the same dlc.

Like, cmon, baseless speculation is fun but you gotta reality check yourself, there isn't gonna be, like, a Madagascar civilization or some obscure and poorly documented ancient civ no one has ever heard of before the actual major civilizations with an impact on world history like Mali and Ethiopia are in game. SEA is a bit different because traditionally they've just picked 1 or 2 civs to represent in each game but still it's like Malaysia, Siam, Indonesia, Vietnam, or Cambodia, not Singapore...

With Australia in, pretty much anything is up for grabs - with the main criterion possibly "does the modern incarnation of this country play a lot of Civilization?" (Malaysia has the largest computer game market in SE Asia, if that's the case).

 

[PhilBowles]

That wasn't what I was referring to.

I haven't seen your past hints other than that one, so I don't know what you might be referring to. But what springs to mind, given that every territory in the region but Brunei has been mooted, is that either the geographical region is not what we expect (such as being South Asian, NE Asian, or Oceanian) or the origin of the civ is not (for instance, a Sarawak or French Indochina civ over one native to the region) and the latter doesn't really seem an interesting approach even if it wouldn't risk having people up in arms.

Most states in the region either overlap fairly directly onto their historical antecedents, or in the case of the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia comprise multiple precolonial states. So there's close to a 1:1 correspondence between the modern-day territories and the historical states; Indonesia was treated as a single entity in Civ V, so the Philippines or Malaysia certainly would be in Civ VI.

So that suggests one of:

Khmer/Cambodia
Siam/Sukothai/Thailand
Bagan/Burma
Ventiane/Laos
Vietnam
Singapore
Brunei
Malaysia
Indonesia
Philippines

Regarding Lee Kuan Yew I don't remember hearing the Devs saying they'll only use leaders who have been deceased for a long time. In fact I don't see why they can't use Leaders who are alive given that they have established proper disclaimers in their legal statements.

Singapore could easily be led by Stamford Raffles. While it might be somewhat against the Western sensibilities of the people making the game, Raffles remains a popular character in SE Asia itself and a recognisable figure more widely than Singapore, if the intent is to sell to an SE Asian market.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I haven't seen your past hints other than that one, so I don't know what you might be referring to. But what springs to mind, given that every territory in the region but Brunei has been mooted, is that either the geographical region is not what we expect (such as being South Asian, NE Asian, or Oceanian) or the origin of the civ is not (for instance, a Sarawak or French Indochina civ over one native to the region) and the latter doesn't really seem an interesting approach even if it wouldn't risk having people up in arms.

Most states in the region either overlap fairly directly onto their historical antecedents, or in the case of the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia comprise multiple precolonial states. So there's close to a 1:1 correspondence between the modern-day territories and the historical states; Indonesia was treated as a single entity in Civ V, so the Philippines or Malaysia certainly would be in Civ VI.

So that suggests one of:

Khmer/Cambodia
Siam/Sukothai/Thailand
Bagan/Burma
Ventiane/Laos
Vietnam
Singapore
Brunei
Malaysia
Indonesia
Philippines



Singapore could easily be led by Stamford Raffles. While it might be somewhat against the Western sensibilities of the people making the game, Raffles remains a popular character in SE Asia itself and a recognisable figure more widely than Singapore, if the intent is to sell to an SE Asian market.

In the past, I have commented that it falls within the standard definition of Southeast Asian.

But the assumption that I see some people incorrectly making has nothing to do with categorization.

 

[Negan]

According to the youtube comments on the new Vikings in Space video, someone asked if there would be another alternate history video and Firaxis responded that there would be one in 2 weeks. Could they be planning a first look next week?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

According to the youtube comments on the new Vikings in Space video, someone asked if there would be another alternate history video and Firaxis responded that there would be one in 2 weeks. Could they be planning a first look next week?

Probably skipping a week for E3 and the XCOM thing happen.

 

[Manifold]

Singapore? Brunei? And if I had to wait until next year I will not play these civs.

 

[God of Kings]

Singapore could easily be led by Stamford Raffles. While it might be somewhat against the Western sensibilities of the people making the game, Raffles remains a popular character in SE Asia itself and a recognisable figure more widely than Singapore, if the intent is to sell to an SE Asian market.

Unfortunately, most people outside SEA would associate Raffles with a giant flower that smells like rotting flesh, despite him being an interesting leader.


The Rafflesia, named after Sir Thomas Stamford Raffles

 

[Uberfrog]

I've not heard of the plant, but in the UK, he could be confused with this fellow:-

Spoiler Man of mystery :

 

[Arianrhod]

Unfortunately, most people outside SEA would associate Raffles with a giant flower that smells like rotting flesh, despite him being an interesting leader.

I... don't think that that's really substantially more likely than people confusing John Curtin with the drapery typically used to cover windows. Rafflesia doesn't really come up in everyday conversation.

With Australia in, pretty much anything is up for grabs - with the main criterion possibly "does the modern incarnation of this country play a lot of Civilization?" (Malaysia has the largest computer game market in SE Asia, if that's the case).

I would consider Australia and Brazil to be 'fair enough' in the sense that there's not really a lot of alternatives for civilizations based in their respective region of the map. They exist, I guess, but their footprint in the modern world is honestly probably small enough to where the modern colonial civilizations have more influence than they do anyway. I'm not overly fond of the "but TSL!" justification, but superficially it's not really all that much worse than any other argument in favor of a civilization's inclusion.

Poland is the real oddball, but it has still some niche use as "the Slavic civilization that isn't Russia", I guess. They seem to have taken it as a chance to get a female leader into the game as well, so there's that too.

 

[magha77]

Exactly, we can add Carthage and we have our third. To me, they are a given. I'm atleast Hoping for Indonesia instead but I remain strongly in doubt. Maybe, I'm a small minority but I couldn't get into Siam at all.

Ditto. I tried but couldn't get into it. The only one that I had a harder time with was Venice.

 

[batusay]

In the past, I have commented that it falls within the standard definition of Southeast Asian.

Would it be possible for you to give us any more hints?

Doesn't matter if it's super vague that it's next to impossible to guess it, I think this thread just needs something to latch its collective sanity onto

 

[slyone14]

Would it be possible for you to give us any more hints?

Doesn't matter if it's super vague that it's next to impossible to guess it, I think this thread just needs something to latch its collective sanity onto

Siam/Thailand. It's a sure given. I just don't see them adding anyone else. At this stsge atleast, them or Indonesia but to me Indonesia will be added with an expansion.

 

[PhilBowles]

Ditto. I tried but couldn't get into it. The only one that I had a harder time with was Venice.

I'm seeing that a lot with Siam, which I find odd - it was one of my favourite civs.

Then again, I liked playing diplomatic city state games (as in properly diplomatic - earning an unassailable points lead with CSes through active questing, rather than throwing cash at them every so often - something which doesn't play well with Siam's long-term bonus), and Siam was excellent for that because the bonuses added up pretty substantially (and culture from wats as well as from cultural CSes tended to send me down the Patronage tree faster than my rivals).

I would consider Australia and Brazil to be 'fair enough' in the sense that there's not really a lot of alternatives for civilizations based in their respective region of the map

Are any needed? There are the Inca for South America who can happily expand eastward, and the Aztec and Maya may want to expand south. Plus much of Brazil on a TSL map is presumably poor terrain as so much of it's jungle. Good for a Brazil civ, obviously, but there seems no point making a civ just to occupy an area no one else wants - that's a bit like the execrable idea that never quite dies of making an Inuit civ.

Australia on a TSL is mid-sized and isolated, which can't make for very compelling games. Australia as blank space to expand into and compete over (much as it was seen in the 18th and 19th Centuries) seems likely to be a better experience.

Siam/Thailand. It's a sure given. I just don't see them adding anyone else. At this stsge atleast, them or Indonesia but to me Indonesia will be added with an expansion.

I'd expect the Khmer before another outing for Siam or Indonesia. As Angkor Wat isn't yet in the game they could also use that DLC to add it as a Wonder (they could do the same with Borobudur, but that's only been a Wonder in one incarnation of the game. Angkor Wat has been in two plus Civ Rev).

 

[Leyrann]

Would it be possible for you to give us any more hints?

Doesn't matter if it's super vague that it's next to impossible to guess it, I think this thread just needs something to latch its collective sanity onto

Collective sanity level of the posts in this thread: Error, value too small.

 

[MooFreaky]

I think there are plenty of reasons why they shouldn't, not least of which is the nebulous legal morass that is the question of what constitutes "fair use" of a public figure's likeness* as well as the dubious task of assessing the accomplishments of someone who is still alive (many leaders who are now considered great were not popular in their own lifetimes and vice versa, after all).

*They could ask permission, but then they have to pay royalties.

You're right, it's a complete mess trying to judge someone who is currently alive, or who was alive in the lifetime of people still alive (or even within a few generations).

Lee Kuan Yew, for example, is seen by some as a great leader of Singapore who took it in a great direction and left it as a powerhouse in the region. While others see a tyrant who stomped all over civil rights, a list of alleged human rights violations and who thwarted democracy. I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong, or making a statement about him, merely that there are people who strongly believe both. When that is about a modern leader, then that is an issue that is just asking to blow up in your face if he is made a character in game.

Many/most leaders in the game would be considered monsters if they were here today acting as they did, but when you can say "well things were different all those centuries ago" it allows a much broader range of options.

 

[Mudokon Pop]

Sounds interesting, but which small-yet-influential civilization/culture would best fit that kind of... I guess parasitic style of gameplay?

To be honest I'd expect to see the Vatican as a playable city state this time 'round, we now have a frame work to how it could be done. The religious gameplay could change the formula from financial/merchant based, making it fresh. But that will likely come with an expansion pack.

Actually come to think of it, that's something that seems to get lost here amongst the back-and-forth over which civs and leaders are more historically notable and therefore 'worthy' of inclusion. We know thanks to past statements in interviews that Firaxis works both ways when designing civs - they can come up with a cool idea for abilities and then find someone thematically appropriate to give it to just as often as they pick a civ and then dig into its history to inform its design.

Yes, unique gameplay concepts are a factor that we forget about.