DLC vs Mods

[mike_cf]

It seems that DLCs will contain new civilizations, BUT mods can add lots of civilizations as well. So, why would someone buy a DLC when they can wait a few weeks until a mod adds that civilization for free? And probably mods will add civilizations (and units and graphics packs) before other DLC will be available.

Did 2k not think enough about this matter? Or there will be restrictions so that what is available from a DLC won't be allowed to be added by a mod?

 

[Tomice]

You're underestimating the effort to create the 3d animated leaders. I don't know it exactly either, but I know moving body parts is among the hardest mods to make. Example: It took ages before modders could reach the quality of the armors shipped with TES: Oblivion.

So while we'll have more mod-civs than original ones within a few weeks, very few will reach the quality of DLC civs (Native tongue speech, animated leader, balanced abilities,...), and not that early.

In the beginning, modders will be happy if they are able to change Catherine's hair and dress color and sell her as another female leader.

 

[Caeserportugal]

In the beginning, modders will be happy if they are able to change Catherine's hair and dress color and sell her as another female leader.

Well for that why not just port the Catherine from Civ Rev to that Cathy was a goddess.

 

[mike_cf]

if I'm playing with babyon (from a mod) I won't need Hammurabbi animations. Civ 4 had many mods with new leaders and animations and even still images. I don't think complete mods will appear very fast, but I think many people care about their $$ and probably will wait a few months to get that content and more for free.

 

[stealth_nsk]

EA was very afraid of the same thing, so they've made Sims 3 unmoddable without cruel hacking. I think for Civ 5 that's not the case:

1. It seems what owners of DLC will be able to play against players with vanilla Civ even with their new civilizations (there will be patches adding an ability to play against the new civ in MP, but not to use it in SP). See the appropriate thread.

2. I suggest the quality of graphics and sound will differ very much.

3. It's more fun to be mainstream. You could write "I beat God level with Bismark" and that's worth more than "I beat everyone playing Mutant Ninja Turtle", since there's no official guarantees it's balanced.

 

[12agnar0k]

In addition to DLC having a proper development team making them visually perfect, some of us will actually buy the DLC just to support our favourite game developers. Not everyone wants as much as possible for as little as possible.

 

[mike_cf]

In my experience with other games (Total War, Civ 4, Oblivion etc) the quality of some mods match and exceed the quality of vanilla. I can't play any of aforementioned games in their vanilla state anymore. Civ 4 is HORRIBLE without RoM

But yes, the DLC will have the advantage they come out faster for players who want that content. In the same time though, it's more obvious that 0day DLC are artificially created just to milk 10$ more.

some of us will actually buy the DLC just to support our favourite game developers

Too bad we can't pay the modders for their wonderful work...

 

[stealth_nsk]

I don't think complete mods will appear very fast, but I think many people care about their $$ and probably will wait a few months to get that content and more for free.

I also think mods which directly duplicate existing DLC will be banned. And I'm not against this.

 

[stealth_nsk]

In the same time though, it's more obvious that 0day DLC are artificially created just to milk 10$ more.

Why not. For me new civs and maps DLC are absolutely valid for this - you could buy and have additional experience or not buy and still have the same experience. It would be sad if they'd add new units and buildings, for example, as other games do (Empire: Total War provide additional units with deluxe edition).

 

[AriochIV]

You're underestimating the effort to create the 3d animated leaders.

I think you're underestimating the ability of the mod community to be able to extract the resource files from the DLC and put them into a mod. It's very difficult to make this kind of data secure.

And you can only "ban" mods that use the in-game browser. There's no way to stop people from trading mods outside the system and installing them manually.

For-pay DLC and moddability don't play very well together.

 

[Caeserportugal]

I except a few mods to be realized very soon complete ones at that. Maps are probably the first thing that will be done. From what I know Afforess and Zappara are already planing an export of Rise of Mankind to and Rhye can also probably do a mod to suceed RFC.

 

[stealth_nsk]

And you can only "ban" mods that use the in-game browser. There's no way to stop people from trading mods outside the system and installing them manually.

There's a way, you know. It's called "signing" and "certificates". I don't know if this mechanics will be in vanilla, but if there will be many DLC hackers, you'll see it in the first addon.

 

[marioflag]

I think that even though community has made really good civilizations and leaders in Civ4 they were very far from the quality of Firaxis made civilizations.
There is also the fact that you can use those civilizations in multiplayer while with a mod it is a lot harder.
I also want Civ5 with all its content even if Firaxis is going to suck a lot of my money.

 

[AriochIV]

There's a way, you know. It's called "signing" and "certificates". I don't know if this mechanics will be in vanilla, but if there will be many DLC hackers, you'll see it in the first addon.

It can't work that way. If the game will only run approved mods, how do you develop a mod? If you're a mod developer, you have to be able to run unapproved mods on your own system, or else it is not possible to create mods in the first place.

 

[Afforess]

Afforess and Zappara are already planing an export of Rise of Mankind to

That was supposed to be strictly confidential...

 

[Caeserportugal]

That was supposed to be strictly confidential...

But is some known Knowledge thoguh we don't know when it will come out

 

[stealth_nsk]

It can't work that way. If the game will only run approved mods, how do you develop a mod? If you're a mod developer, you have to be able to run unapproved mods on your own system, or else it is not possible to create mods in the first place.

They could just provide some restrictions to unsigned mods, like large semi-transparent word "UNAUTHORIZED" on the whole screen.

 

[Tomice]

And you can only "ban" mods that use the in-game browser. There's no way to stop people from trading mods outside the system and installing them manually.

For-pay DLC and moddability don't play very well together.

I wasn't talking about cracking official DLC and illegal activities, that's a completely different topic.


Also, I put the example of Dragon Age in another thread some time ago. They have both extensive modding and DLC.

The best protection is that major fansites ban obviously illegal mods on their own, because a page like CFC could not allow its users to upset Firaxis. So illegal DLC copies are not that obviously available to John Doe.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I wasn't talking about cracking official DLC and illegal activities, that's a completely different topic.

It was about this:

I think you're underestimating the ability of the mod community to be able to extract the resource files from the DLC and put them into a mod.

 

[PieceOfMind]

They could just provide some restrictions to unsigned mods, like large semi-transparent word "UNAUTHORIZED" on the whole screen.

That would be pretty annoying. I really don't think Firaxis or 2K have such plans, nor are they going to be policing mods by "signing" them. That would probably require a silly amount of manpower (and womanpower) from them anyway.