Do most people in prussia want to be part of Poland.

[cubsfan6506]

Well do they.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Where's Prussia?

 

[cubsfan6506]

Its pretty mush the northern region of poland and north eastern germany. I meant to say do they want to be part of Germany.

 

[Bill3000]

Prussia does not exist anymore - do you mean [wiki]Kaliningrad Oblast?[/wiki]

Highly unlikely for the time being, as the area was ethnically cleansed as a result of WW2; it's entirely (well, 82.37&#37 Russian now.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

I think cubsfan is referring to the geographical area of Prussia confined within Poland at the moment. If you look at the wikipedia map, you'll see a solid blue eastern area located where northern Poland happens to be. I believe cubsfan is asking whether the people living there consider themselves "german" or "polish" right now since the Prussian empire originally was German.

I honestly have no idea. All I know is that whatever the Polish are calling it nowadays, I'll always call it danzig!

The partitions of Poland for some reason bring out a very trite answer. But I believe Prussia had roots in medievial times way before Prussia was officially founded.. like back in 1410 Tautenberg style.

hmm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia

 

[amadeus]

Seeing as the Russians expelled the Germans from present-day Poland (and subsequently expelled the Polish from the USSR) I doubt there are many Germans left that wish to secede from Poland.

 

[amadeus]

I honestly have no idea. All I know is that whatever the Polish are calling it nowadays, I'll always call it danzig!

It's Gdansk, and it's where Walesa led the strike at the Lenin shipyards.

 

[Winner]

There are almost none. They were either expelled, or the fled the Russians.

Nowadays, certain groups of Germans (usually those who were expelled and their descendants) want to get "their" property in these parts of Poland and Bohemia back, which is kinda provocative and stirs up emotions in Poland and the Czech rep.

 

[Bill3000]

The partitions of Poland for some reason bring out a very trite answer. But I believe Prussia had roots in medievial times way before Prussia was officially founded.. like back in 1410 Tautenberg style.

The Prussians were originally one of the numerous pagan baltic tribes in the area, other significant ones being the Lithuanians and the Letts. (latter being one of the ancestors of the Latvians) I must stress Balkan here because the Prussians originally spoke a Baltic language, the two surviving members of the family today being Lithuanian and Latvian.

An order of german knights, the Teutonic Knights, come in and settle/conquer the area to convert the heathens - the baltic area was pretty much the last bastion of paganism in Europe. Long story short, this eventually lead to the assimilation of the Old Prussians there, particular after the Protestant reformation (and thus after Prussia became secularized) in the 18th century.

So, uh... that offers absolutely no help outside of explaining extremely simply how the germans got there in the first place.

Nowadays, certain groups of Germans (usually those who were expelled and their descendants) want to get "their" property in these parts of Poland and Bohemia back, which is kinda provocative and stirs up emotions in Poland and the Czech rep.

I understand Poland, but Bohemia? Not nearly as justified, really.

 

[Winner]

So, uh... that offers absolutely no help outside of explaining extremely simply how the germans got there in the first place.

It's a long story indeed.

At first, Germans came and kicked out the Celts. Then the Slavs came and kicked out the Germans. Then Germans pushed back and settled the ex-slavic areas. Finally, the problem of german minorities in Central and Eastern Europe was solved at the end of WW2.

 

[QuoVadisNation]

ah c___, I spelt it incorrectly. I meant to say the Battle of Tannenberg, AD 1410. Seriously though, I always saw the pagan-era of Poland and Prussia to be rather comical. I always laugh when I Imagine Lithuania starting out with the size of Germany and parts of France and then finally turning into a little country smaller than the size of Scotland..

Bad move on their part joining up with the Polish

 

[Winner]

I understand Poland, but Bohemia? Not nearly as justified, really.

What do you mean? The expulsion or the calls for the property?

I don't want to second-guess the decisions that have been made. Germans in Sudetenland were considered traitors (most of them democratically voted for Nazis anyway) and collaborators, and their continued existence in one state with Czechs and others was deemed impossible.

The same happened in Poland. Their property was seized partly as a form of reparations for the war.

 

[Bill3000]

It's a long story indeed.

At first, Germans came and kicked out the Celts. Then the Slavs came and kicked out the Germans. Then Germans pushed back and settled the ex-slavic areas. Finally, the problem of german minorities in Central and Eastern Europe was solved at the end of WW2.

Kicked them out? Weren't they assimilated? (And while I don't remember off the top of my head, I believe there was a particular term for the type of assimilation of tribes, different from the assimilation that we know today) Even so, I don't really think you can count movements of peoples from 50 BC to 300 AD...

As well, the Old Prussians weren't slavic.

What do you mean? The expulsion or the calls for the property?

I don't want to second-guess the decisions that have been made. Germans in Sudetenland were considered traitors (most of them democratically voted for Nazis anyway) and collaborators, and their continued existence in one state with Czechs and others was deemed impossible.

Calls for the property. Specifically, Sudetenland is far less justified than, say, Silesia, which was more historically German, really.

 

[Tee Kay]

Most Germans currently living there I hear is pretty much assimilated, or just doesn't care. Appearantly there's about 150,000 left in Poland. They're a recognised minority group and have seats in the parliament.

 

[Winner]

Kicked them out? Weren't they assimilated? (And while I don't remember off the top of my head, I believe there was a particular term for the type of assimilation of tribes, different from the assimilation that we know today) Even so, I don't really think you can count movements of peoples from 50 BC to 300 AD...

Eh? I just wanted to say that no nation has any particular right to claim some land in Central and Eastern Europe is its motherland. We've all came from somewhere else.

As well, the Old Prussians weren't slavic.

I know.

Calls for the property. Specifically, Sudetenland is far less justified than, say, Silesia, which was more historically German, really.

I really don't think anybody should open this again. It's the past, leave it there and move on.

 

[Winner]

Most Germans currently living there I hear is pretty much assimilated, or just doesn't care. Appearantly there's about 150,000 left in Poland. They're a recognised minority group and have seats in the parliament.

I'd like to know if any of these Germans speaks German

We have about 50,000 people who claim to be German in the Czech rep., but most of them just have German surname and that's it. 1/3 of Czechs could claim they have German ancestors as well as 1/5 of Polish. It's pointless.

 

[Bill3000]

I'd like to know if any of these Germans speaks German

We have about 50,000 people who claim to be German in the Czech rep., but most of them just have German surname and that's it. 1/3 of Czechs could claim they have German ancestors as well as 1/5 of Polish. It's pointless.

I don't really see how it's pointless - one doesn't need to speak German to be a german, given the right of return; it's a matter of both having german ancestry and identifying as a german, in this case. 1/3 of Czechs could have a significant level of German ancestry, but what matters is whether or not they idenitfy as a German, which they probably don't.

Besides, it probably doesn't help that the Czech Republic doesn't offer minority language rights at the moment.

I really don't think anybody should open this again. It's the past, leave it there and move on.

Well, my only point was that Silesia is more historically german that the Sudentenland - not a matter of whether or not such a thing should be done at all. The issue had been first and foremost whether such a move was justified - not that it should be rescinded. Besides, if there's anyone to really blame, it's the Russians.

Ideally, the EU would be eventually set up in such a way such that borders are pretty much meaningless, and that the germans who would want to move into their ancestral areas could if they wanted to. I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting to give Silesia et al back to Germany. The population transfers that would be required would be a disaster.

 

[warpus]

Well do they.

No. They're Polish, they want to remain a part of Poland.

It's like asking whether Babylonians want to be a part of Iraq

So, uh... that offers absolutely no help outside of explaining extremely simply how the germans got there in the first place.

You forgot to mention that the teutonic knights were invited to the region by the Polish king, after a crusade. They kept conquering and their dominion grew.. until Poland & Lithuania got annoyed, resulting in the battle of Grunwald (1410), making Prussia a Polish vassal state.

ah c___, I spelt it incorrectly. I meant to say the Battle of Tannenberg, AD 1410. Seriously though, I always saw the pagan-era of Poland and Prussia to be rather comical. I always laugh when I Imagine Lithuania starting out with the size of Germany and parts of France and then finally turning into a little country smaller than the size of Scotland..

Bad move on their part joining up with the Polish

That's because you have an incredibly daft understanding of history.

Ideally, the EU would be eventually set up in such a way such that borders are pretty much meaningless, and that the germans who would want to move into their ancestral areas could if they wanted to.

Germans are currently free to settle in śląsk if they want to.

 

[nonconformist]

No, even the Poles don't want to be part of Poland.

 

[Bill3000]

You forgot to mention that the teutonic knights were invited to the region by the Polish king, after a crusade. They kept conquering and their dominion grew.. until Poland & Lithuania got annoyed, resulting in the battle of Grunwald (1410), making Prussia a Polish vassal state.

I know, but I had class, so I had to rush it.