Do you build WW ?

[guermantes]

Hi,
I've been away from the game for a long time but feel like getting back and re-learning the ropes.

I remember from my early CIV4 days on Apolyton that advanced players often said they skipped trying to build world wonders altogether (unless going for cultural win) because it took too much resources away from developing the empire.

The idea being that you can win the game just as easily by having a sound strategy that does not depend on WW:s, so why risk getting delayed if you try to build but miss a WW.
Does this still hold true in the community or is it just poppy-cock?
/g

 

[ben-jammin]

It still holds true, except that with the industrious trait or the resources that boosts a wonder's production it's fine to get beaten to a wonder. In fact building wonders just for the fail gold (often building it to within 1 turn of completion, and then building it again elsewhere until an AI finishes it) is a powerful strategy in it's own right on emperor or above. It allows you to build wealth even before currency, and it converts hammers to gold more efficiently (ie if you are industrious and building a marble wonder with access to the resource, one hammer into the failed wonder is 2.5gold instead of 1).

 

[Izuul]

There are always going to be situations where certain wonders are worth pursuing, even on Deity.

 

[Windsor]

The "don't build wonders"-advice goes in the same category as "build 1.5 workers per city".

Not building any wonders will rarely cost you a game. Building to many wonders is a frequent flaw amongst players.

But most wonders are worth trying to build if you have the resource. If you don't, then they are usually very questionable. You should also be a lot more careful about early wonders. Taking a shot at Taj Mahal isn't as bad as losing pyramids.

 

[admtanaka]

Definitely have won immortal games without any wonders, but those were more because I was behind in other ways rather than just avoiding them in the spirit of being optimal. I usually build some wonders. Sometimes rushing to music and denying the AI the Sistine Chapel can prevent a cultural loss.

 

[babar]

I think a lot of the confusion for inexperienced players comes from the assumption that a unique, expensive (time, hammers, or tech path) "World Wonder" will actually have worthwhile effects, when in fact most of them are mediocre, and even the best are situational. Even if you didn't have to race for them and could build them anytime, most WWs would be situational.

 

[elmurcis]

Yes, I build.. and if its possible to keep up tech race, I will build multiple.. If I get coastal start - Great Lighthouse.. If I have stone, should go for Pyramids.. If I have marble - Great Library always nice... But same time I know that wonders cost something.. and most times it mean 1 less city if there still was free land.. So after I finish some wonder, its time for some rush against neighbour

 

[shakabrade]

On Deity, more yes than no. GLH, TGL, Taj. Sometimes Mids. Generally, whenever I can.

 

[Manco Capac]

Two things I love: wonders and blood.

 

[GKey]

Especially on Deity there are key wonders that you try to get at all cost. Oracle - to catch the tech trade train, GW - for tech purposes via SE, GLH for REX and some others, that are less of "a must to get", but still wanted.

 

[Manco Capac]

No GLib? I'm surprised.

I've won several deity games without Oracle. Oracle is a gamble wonder. I don't like this one...
As Mylene said, it can be silly at times like 2600 BC...impossible to get it.

 

[GKey]

Well, I was trying to avoid this kind of captain obvious suggestion "play the map". None of the wonders are "the must", but often missing one means you are going to have hard times, even though the fail gold can be a key for survival.

 

[Manco Capac]

It's just what I hate with the Oracle beeline is the pre-requisite techs are just bad. You lose (so-so fail gold because most of the time, you don't wait marble) and the self-researched techs are also bad.

At least, Mids/GW only needs Masonry (Mining is really often got early).
GLH needs Sailing and Masonry. Going for Sailing often has an underlying reason like some seafoods and the need of a lighthouse. So basically, only need Masonry that can be a small loss if no quarry bonuses. But as much as the religious beeline.
GLib comes along techs that aver mostly shunned by the AI's, thus good trade bait.

Basically, Oracle is such a risky move sometimes. Especially without Mysticism at the start.

Early wonders loss hit is far more painful than later wonders. Mainly because going for a wonder may end up losing a key city location while REXing period.

 

[Manco Capac]

I had some bad experiences with the Oracle, so I get emotional about it.

 

[GKey]

Cmon Tachy, we all know that pursuing wonders is risky. Are you willing to take the risk? Completely map dependent. So yeah, "play the map"... again... Boring! Or is it?

 

[Moses7]

I build the wonders
I focus on Pyramids (because it enables all civs ), Statue of Zeus, Parthenon , Great Lighthouse, and the Great Wall (if I have barbarians)

 

[GKey]

Seriously? Statue of Zeus is #2 in your list?

 

[aitkensam]

1. Check if I am Industrious, if so care more about wonders.
2. Check if I have Marble / Stone reachable by 2nd/3rd city, if so care more about wonders.
3. Check if [game settings / traits / starting techs / starting pos'n / special strat] suggest I should care about a specific wonder (e.g. Archipelago -> GLH/Colossus, Raging Barbs -> GW, Culture win -> Sistine etc), if so care more about wonders.

Otherwise I like:
Oracle - I normally play Emperor level so it's usually quite gettable before 1500BCish.
GLib - cos it rocks (like someone said its via Aesthetics, which I usually go for anyway for trading!)
MoM - if I can trade for Calendar in time (don't like self-teching it unless I have a great start).
Taj - cos chaining 3-4 12turn GA's and cuir/cav stomping the world is awesome!
Mids - if I have time... or maybe if no happy resources for early Rep.
GLH/Colossus - if it seems like the map needs it.

But in one game I would never get all of these...
...and if I go up a level to Imm I tend to be more selective for fear of losing them. Can always take them in war after all

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

On Imm the only wonder I will ever build is the Oracle as you will get it 99.99999% of the time when knowing what you're doing. On Deity I will judge my neighbors on whether or not it is do able, and when it is it is always worth it. But if I can't I won't build any other ones besides for fail gold. Units will provide more bang for their buck.

 

[Doshin]

With Stone, I almost always try to build the University of Sankore. My cities are frequently filled with AP Monastries and Temples, for the production bonus, and more often than not I am running the AP religion. The Mids grant +3 per specialist, if you run Representation. Sankore grants +4 per city.

It's not game breaking, but allows you to keep slowly teching at a time when you have a big tech advantage (Lib. ---> whatever) but need money for upgrades.