Do you cheat?

[Mark1031]

Have you ever cheated on an exam or project? I have not ever but when I was in college every one I know did. Now I have kids in 3rd and 4th grade and they get these little projects. We help with advice but the kids do the project and then when they bring them in it is obvious that the parents of the other kids did the bulk of the work (it specifically said parent help should be limited). This really pisses me off. First and foremost it teaches cheating IMO. Second it makes my kids feel inferior. One daughter is very artistic and I’ve seen artsy projects done in class and hers are always the best by far but still she can’t put together a complex multimedia presentation with as much precision as a 40 yr old. I’m going to talk to the teacher but I don’t really care to do 3rd grade projects. However, if I am going to do the bulk of the work I at least want it announced in class that this is a joint project for you and your parents so as not to teach cheating. Your thoughts.

EDIT: Poll is for cheating in an academic setting not cheating your little brother out of his candy or in some game.

 

[ummmm........]

If it's obvious to you, then it would be obvious to the teacher as well, I should think.

It'll all even out once they get old enough to take standardized tests.

 

[Mark1031]

If it's obvious to you, then it would be obvious to the teacher as well, I should think.

I'm sure it is which is even more infuriating as if it were me I would send a note home saying that it is obvious that little Billy did not do this project please see that he works independently in the future. The problem is that it seems to be the standard in my community for the projects to say limited help and for the parents to then do them. Literally all the projects except my kids were parent done. What is even more ridiculous is all these parents working so hard to do great 3rd grade projects. It’s a freeking competition among the parents and teaches cheating.

 

[ummmm........]

So then it's not so much cheating as it is the de facto rules and the de jure rules are different.

I agree it's really irritating when that happens, but it's not at all unusual, and I don't think it's a bad thing to learn early. Just don't get so worked up about it. Explain to your kids how things are, and move on. Looking at it from the other side, it's nice that your kids go to a school where the parents are involved, even if that involvement extends to a pathetic degree.

The alternative is far worse, I assure you.

 

[Goonie]

In bringing up your kids, I would suggest that you do not use the bulk of parents as your role model.

Good on your for teaching your kids work ethics and independance.

 

[Timko]

The only time I can remember cheating is when we had to do questionnaires in geography and business studies. I specifically chose a project in geography that didn't require questionnaires and got a crap mark as a result, and then had to fill them in for everyone else. Lesson learnt.

 

[Atlas14]

I used to cheat back in Elementary School VERY occasionally. I'd look at someone's test for one answer sort of thing. I quickly recognized it was wrong and it had no point if I ever was going to have any pride about the grades I've earned. Now, I never cheat and Im proud. It took some maturing of me to realize cheating is wrong.

My friends all cheat and some don't really do a good job of hiding it. We grade our own papers in AP Chem and AP US history, and I see plenty that change their circled answer. In AP Chem, a group of people even were wispering answers and discussing them in the middle of the quiz. It pisses me off sometimes, cause I got a low B that semester and all those darn cheaters had 90%s on their report card.

 

[The Fjonis]

... I thought you meant like "cheat on your wife" ...

 

[Mark1031]

Well I'm not as worked up as I sound. It is kind of silly and there is an infinite universe of more important things to worry about than 3rd grade projects but if you have kids you know that it is not an insignificant blow to the ego to bring in a 9yr olds piece of crap and have it displayed along side a 40 yr olds work.

It also got me thinking about cheating in society. Literally everyone I knew in college and people I have talked to recently cheated extensively with parent help like parent writing college entrance statement. If that is the current standard if I teach my kids not to cheat will they be at a disadvantage?

My wife and I are smart and so our strong anti-cheating ethic comes from the fact that we didn’t need to (I mean by the time I wrote out a cheat sheet I would have the info memorized) and other people doing it put us at a disadvantage. But if our kids are average and everyone is doing it maybe we should teach them that it’s OK.

 

[punkbass2000]

I cheated in school whenever I felt like it and thought I wouldn't get caught. Which wasn't a lot, but wasn't incredibly infrequent either. I was never caught.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I cheated constantly, so did everybody else. It was like a game.

 

[Gothmog]

This is tough.

I remember quite specifically incidents when I was 9 or so that I did projects (by myself) and had them compared with ones that were obviously the work of professionals. I got OK grades in those, but never top ones. I remember it well because it was embarassing to me.

This is one of the reasons why I gravitated towards classes where there was some objective measure of success. I always prefered a long in class exam to a take home one, and a class where homework wasn't part of the final grade, for exactly this reason.

Standardized tests did help even things out for me (I scored much better than my grades would have indicated), as did harder classes where you needed to apply what you had learned in a previous class.

You bring up an interesting point though, I never needed to cheat. I would maybe have done better in the short run if I had, but I was always one of the smartest kids in any class I've been in. I currently assume that the same will be true for my children, but what if they are average? Don't know off the top of my head, but I'll get back to it.

 

[Yom]

Never. I checked my work on homework and small assignments against peers, but never anything that wasn't trivial (not that was cheating, but some people may consider it that way).

 

[Mark1031]

This is tough.

I remember quite specifically incidents when I was 9 or so that I did projects (by myself) and had them compared with ones that were obviously the work of professionals. I got OK grades in those, but never top ones. I remember it well because it was embarassing to me.

Yes ego is the main problem at this age. I mean the projects are stupid and don't teach anything, except to cheat. I don't think they are even graded or if so it's not that important but they are put on display . But what about the future. If you're the smartest one in class no problemo you can be high minded and do well but if there is rampant cheating and you are average then what morals do you adopt.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Well everybody who claims to never have cheated says its because they didnt need to. I guess that means its ok to cheat as long as you have to

 

[RoddyVR]

i WANTED to vote "always" but that's because i thought that the poll (was more general then it is). i dont think i cheated on any school type stuff. just didnt care enough to.
i did lie to a teacher once that the program i'd writen (checkers game) was finished even though it had some GLARING holes in it (like the checkers walking off the board if you wanted them to), but it did beat the teacher, which was what it had to do for him to pass me for the year. i think he may have known that it wasnt realy done, just not to the extent that it wasnt.

i always did well on tests, so had to reason to copy off other people. never cared enough about homework to cheat there (or do much of it, lol).
if i could be acused of cheating it was by letting others copy off me in math, but i did actualy try to explain what they were copying when they did it, so its more like teaching then cheating.

but non academic stuff i cheat at all the time. cheat/lie/steal whatever you want to call it, if it dont hurt a PERSON directly, but is more targeted at a government/company, then i'm all for it.

 

[punkbass2000]

Your teacher lost at checkers? Did he move first?

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

I think those that say never, aren't being completely honest.

 

[amadeus]

I didn't cheat because I didn't do the work.

 

[Mark1031]

I think those that say never, aren't being completely honest.

It does seem to be rather high compared to my personal experience. The question is meant to refer to an academic setting. I have cheated at card games when I was a kid. I have also lied and stolen but I have never cheated in an academic setting, or on my taxes for that matter. Believe it or not it is true.