Do you ever found a religion?

[Magma_Dragoon]

Likely because if one city that shares a national park is captured it would no longer be exclusively the same player.

The ownership condition is only needed to determine if the improvement is valid to build. Pick one tile that counts as the owner of the improvement once it is built. The fact that it grants an amenity to the four cities closest to the park rather than the city owning the part means they are likely already doing this for the purposes of finding those four cities.

 

[gettingfat]

At diety or immortal can be difficult depending on the AIs and barb situation, but up to emperor it is often doable. Just pray a couple of times. Capturing cities with holy sites is also a good way. If playing Russia, Japan and Azetec it is not too difficult.

 

[Abraxis]

Why wouldn't I look at it like that when that is exactly what happens? The buildings give great prophet points, then you earn one or fail to get one, then they give nothing. If you could get more than one and they did neat stuff like other great people holy sites would be a viable district for non-Russians to build. If they made easier to build a national park that would also make faith generation more desirable. Why must all the tiles be owned by the same city? Owned by the same player seems more reasonable to me.

Because we're not talking about the value of Great Prophet Points after prophets are acquired, we're talking about the value of Holy Sites. You're intentionally narrowing your perspective to fit your argument. Let me break this down.

-You say Holy Sites are bad because Great Prophet Points lose value.
-I say Holy Sites are good because faith retains value, and explain its value.
-You then argue that if Great Prophet Points went on to function the same as Faith, a Holy Site would have value to you.

You know what functions like Faith?
Faith.

By your own reasoning, there's no reason you shouldn't value these sites. You're just getting caught up on superficial nonsense over what format their value be delivered to you in. Whether Great Prophet points expire and you use Faith to do things, or they don't and you use Great Prophet Points and Faith to do the same things... there is literally no meaningful distinction.

This is just a small step away from thinking an 8 sliced large pizza is smaller than a 12 sliced large pizza.

 

[ShakaKhan]

Why must all the tiles be owned by the same city? Owned by the same player seems more reasonable to me.

Note that you can swap tiles between cities. When you found another city that has overlapping tiles with another city, your governor decides which tiles go to which city. However, if you open the citizen placement tool, you can change which city "owns" certain tiles. By manually swapping, you can create a possible placement for a NP where one was not available without swapping.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

OP, Saladin would like to have a word with you...

 

[Underseer]

Everything about religion in this game is annoying.

In Civ 5, I occasionally enjoyed going for a religious victory, but in this game I want nothing to do with religion.

 

[Siptah]

Everything about religion in this game is annoying.

In Civ 5, I occasionally enjoyed going for a religious victory, but in this game I want nothing to do with religion.

Religious victory wasn't an option in civ V. It's a new way of winning introduced in civ VI.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Because we're not talking about the value of Great Prophet Points after prophets are acquired, we're talking about the value of Holy Sites. You're intentionally narrowing your perspective to fit your argument. Let me break this down.

-You say Holy Sites are bad because Great Prophet Points lose value.
-I say Holy Sites are good because faith retains value, and explain its value.
-You then argue that if Great Prophet Points went on to function the same as Faith, a Holy Site would have value to you.

You know what functions like Faith?
Faith.

By your own reasoning, there's no reason you shouldn't value these sites. You're just getting caught up on superficial nonsense over what format their value be delivered to you in. Whether Great Prophet points expire and you use Faith to do things, or they don't and you use Great Prophet Points and Faith to do the same things... there is literally no meaningful distinction.

This is just a small step away from thinking an 8 sliced large pizza is smaller than a 12 sliced large pizza.

Why would I compare apples to oranges when I could compare apples to apples? Other districts give me a yield that I want, and great people that I want. Even playing as Russia and aggressively building Lavra I only generate enough faith to patronize ~2 great people by the time the game is over. Faithbuying great people requires that I have a large faith income and is most prudent to do when there is a great person I'm not going to acquire naturally which also happen to have a bonus I really really want. But had I focused on other districts before the holy sites I could have just had more great people points in those other categories and acquired more of them naturally.

Note that you can swap tiles between cities. When you found another city that has overlapping tiles with another city, your governor decides which tiles go to which city. However, if you open the citizen placement tool, you can change which city "owns" certain tiles. By manually swapping, you can create a possible placement for a NP where one was not available without swapping.

No, owning a tile and working a tile are two different things.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Religious victory wasn't an option in civ V. It's a new way of winning introduced in civ VI.

Well, it was also an option for victory in Civ 4 BTS, so not completely new. But, yes, not an option in 5.

 

[Siptah]

Well, it was also an option for victory in Civ 4 BTS, so not completely new. But, yes, not an option in 5.

In civ IV BTS? I think only with mods.

 

[bcaiko]

In civ IV BTS? I think only with mods.

@Underseer's point is still valid: Religion is a much more annoying mechanic in Civ6 than it was in Civ5.

 

[Siptah]

@Underseer's point is still valid: Religion is a much more annoying mechanic in Civ6 than it was in Civ5.

I still don't think so. I'm probably in the minority, but I like the religious game in civ VI more than in V. And of course more than in 4.

 

[DizzKneeLand33]

Civ 4 BTS you could pursue a religious victory connected with the Apostolic Palace. This was not a mod. It was similar to a popularity contest ala the United Nations, but the voting requirements and so forth were different.

 

[Locke_Daemonfire]

Why would I compare apples to oranges when I could compare apples to apples? Other districts give me a yield that I want, and great people that I want. Even playing as Russia and aggressively building Lavra I only generate enough faith to patronize ~2 great people by the time the game is over. Faithbuying great people requires that I have a large faith income and is most prudent to do when there is a great person I'm not going to acquire naturally which also happen to have a bonus I really really want. But had I focused on other districts before the holy sites I could have just had more great people points in those other categories and acquired more of them naturally.

As a note, without modifiers I think it's about 10 faith per GPP. So even a maxed out Holy Site only provides about 1 GPP per turn, depending on the worship building. I understand Abraxis's argument, in that a Holy Site could be worth it based on faith alone if the numbers were different. But in the end, I agree with you because the amount of faith generated is simply not enough on its own.

No, owning a tile and working a tile are two different things.

A city must own a tile in order to work it. The swap button actually does primarily change city ownership, and does not even necessarily work the tile unless you lock it. I have used the function to build districts and wonders in cities that did not initially own the tile.

 

[Abraxis]

Why would I compare apples to oranges when I could compare apples to apples? Other districts give me a yield that I want, and great people that I want. Even playing as Russia and aggressively building Lavra I only generate enough faith to patronize ~2 great people by the time the game is over. Faithbuying great people requires that I have a large faith income and is most prudent to do when there is a great person I'm not going to acquire naturally which also happen to have a bonus I really really want. But had I focused on other districts before the holy sites I could have just had more great people points in those other categories and acquired more of them naturally.

Again, you're misrepresenting your position to favour your argument. You're not comparing apples to apples, you're just assuming equal values because both end with "Points". Also, as previously discussed, Faith does more then just patronize Great People. You are comparing Apples to Oranges, except you're not even comparing them by a full practical unit (districts), you're comparing the apple's core to the orange's pulp in a vacuum. What practical value does that have? None if you're interested in accuracy and application, plenty if you're interested in deception. A salesman would do it to muddy the waters to trick you into over-valuing their product. Or a libelist would do it to make someone look worse than they are. The trouble with these types is you can never be sure if they're trying to pull one over on you, or if they actually believe their own pitch.

The economics of all these disparate currencies and their relative values can't be quantified by isolated comparison like you're trying. You would need an independent standard, of which there is non. Faith, gold, and production all have methods of conversion (patronage and projects), but they're not clean or truly independent. Their shared sources complicate any evaluation. It's possible, if not likely, the developers used a standard in order to balance all these mechanics, if you've access to that, or have reverse engineered it, I would be very interested.

You don't though, and until any of us do, the closest we can come to simplifying the economics to achieve a useful understanding while not sacrificing accuracy is to compare the value of each district as a whole to each other district, because it is in these formats that we purchase for mostly the same amount of production and nothing else. This is where the web of interconnecting systems is at its simplest and we can judge using production as a standard.
Understand that even here we still only get a rough estimate of actual value since the costs of a district is dependant on several other factors such as tech progress, relative number of current districts to the global average, chosen civilization, competing civilizations... all these things and more affect the actually cog value we can place on districts and their resulting yields.

Meanwhile you're trying to pick apart their yields. It's like trying to build a house of cards on a ship in the middle of a storm as I'm over here trying to just nail down the furniture.

Feel however you want to about Holy Sites or whatever else, but stop representing your biases as though they have any basis in objectivity just because you compared one thing to another thing. That is monty python levels of deductive reasoning.

Spoiler :

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

A city must own a tile in order to work it. The swap button actually does primarily change city ownership, and does not even necessarily work the tile unless you lock it. I have used the function to build districts and wonders in cities that did not initially own the tile.

In civ5 we had this issue with stoneworks where the city that was assigned a stone or marble tile couldn't built it because assigning a plot to a city did not change ownership of the plot. Plot ownership under the hood was determined upon acquisition and immutable. I believe it works the same in civ6. Also even if it was something that could change via citizen swapping that can't be done to tiles in rings 4 and 5.

The economics of all these disparate currencies and their relative values can't be quantified by isolated comparison like you're trying.

Sure I can. The holy site's yield is converted into gpp currency which I may or may not need, meanwhile I get gpp direct deposit and a yield that I definitely need from other districts.