Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
"One" seems to make more sense, but since it's "you" in my language (well... along with reflexive forms of pronouns, but those aren't used like this in English so I will skip those), I use "you" way more often.
Do you prefer using "one" or "you" for impersonal expressions?
- Thread starter Globex
- Start date
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
I usually use "you" in that context. And very often people answer me "I don't do what you've told I do! You're a liar!" So then I make the effort to say "one".
I must say that English could be very tricky when it goes about the "you" word. There could always be a doubt whether we use the singular or the plural form, the personal or the impersonal form. And there's always one guy to take everything against him personally (something which particularly annoys me).
Let's take an example, discussing with an American dude about the differences between cities in Europe and the US :
- Me: Your authorities invest more in urban freeways than in public transportation, which contributes to the development of individual housings, which is bad for the environment.
- An annoying guy who happens to live in the US: WHAT? You don't even know where I live you arrogant froggy surrendering Eurocrap!
NB: The problem isn't about Americans or Europeans. The problem is about taking general statements personally (something anyone could do no matter their location).
I must say that English could be very tricky when it goes about the "you" word. There could always be a doubt whether we use the singular or the plural form, the personal or the impersonal form. And there's always one guy to take everything against him personally (something which particularly annoys me).
Let's take an example, discussing with an American dude about the differences between cities in Europe and the US :
- Me: Your authorities invest more in urban freeways than in public transportation, which contributes to the development of individual housings, which is bad for the environment.
- An annoying guy who happens to live in the US: WHAT? You don't even know where I live you arrogant froggy surrendering Eurocrap!
NB: The problem isn't about Americans or Europeans. The problem is about taking general statements personally (something anyone could do no matter their location).
Globex
President Scorpio
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Messages
- 437
When you are addressing an audience, you use the plural form of "you" not the impersonal "you" though I may be wrong.
Mise
isle of lucy
I try to avoid them, but I use "you" because "one" sounds faggy and pretentious.
Globex
President Scorpio
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Messages
- 437
I agree that the English language doesn't have enough words for "you" although it does have many colloquial plural "you"s like "y'all", "you guys" and "yous". I find myself needing to use a plural "you" much more often then I find myself in need of an impersonal you but I sometimes get annoyed by English's lack of an impersonal pronoun.
I'm kinda puzzled by the fact that there are "yous", "y'all" and the like but there is no colloquial, impersonal "you". I would imagine that it would be needed very often to clear up ambiguities.
Globex
President Scorpio
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Messages
- 437
I never understand how or why the usage of "one" as an impersonal word has gotten such a negative connotation.
Mise
isle of lucy
Blame the Queen I guess.
Mise
isle of lucy
Toilet paper's considered posh in Ireland.
RedRalph
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
- Messages
- 20,708
Using leaves is considered uppity, as a matter of fact
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
That one was rude, but I must confess it was hilarious.
Anyway, I live in a country where in some cafés we can still find holes being considered as toilets. And that's unfortunately not a joke in this case...
flyingchicken
Deity
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2007
- Messages
- 3,783
I'd tell you to shut up if you took a general statement personally.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 9,311
In normal conversation, I use "you".
If I'm trying to sound proverbial, then I might use "one". If I'm trying to sound biblical, I probably will use "thou". But in those cases it's usually more a case of being indirectly personal than being impersonal, and it's usually in fun. If I really care about something someone's done, though, I'll simply use "you" and have it be a personal expression.
Grammatically speaking, "you" is the plural second person pronoun already. English has merely morphed it into the singular first person pronoun as well. The true singular second person pronoun is "thou", not "you". So your problem stems from the fact that Anglophones use the 2nd person plural as the singular.
For comparison, consider French. Here are the relavant pronouns in each language:
2nd Person Singular
thou, tu
2nd Person Plural
you, vous
In French, you use vous when you are talking to a group of people. With time (sometime around the Middle Ages) vous also began being used as a term of respect to those with a higher social standing than you (or equal, depending on where you were to begin with). Nowadays, one would use tu when talking with family, friends and children, and vous with most adults, especially in formal situations or where they have higher rank than you (i.e. your boss). Tu is also widely used amongst teenagers amongst themselves regardless of how well they know each other. To call someone of higher rank tu can be an insult, and there is a verb (tutoyer) for this action. On the other hand, as tu is used amongst friends, it also can be a signifier of a more amiable relationship.
In English, by comparison, a similar thing began happening in the late Middle Ages, with you being used around those of higher rank rather than thou. In some Shakespeare one can notice thou and you differentiating rank, but even by Shakespeare's time you was being used with those of lower rank as well at times. As time kept going on, English merely switched entirely to using you in the singular rather than thou. It's the same thing that happened to French, except taken to a higher degree. Nowadays many Anglophones consider "thou" to sound formal and stilted, when it actually is informal. This can pose a nice opportunity for a subtle knack at someone who doesn't understand the difference.
So the solution in English is to revert to using "thou" for the singular, and keeping "you" only for the plural, or formal if you prefer that as well. The only challenge is convincing the other billion English speakers to do the same
.
Of course, for impersonal expressions the French generally use on, a third-person singular pronoun. It's pretty much a direct equivalent of the English one. So those of us, myself included, who tend to use "you" in impersonal expressions, are just not using the right pronoun at all. I only used "one" here because I was thinking about it - in every case "one" appears in an impersonal expressions above, it was "you" before I backspaced and retyped it.
Any more knowledgable linguist or Francophone, please feel free to correct me. As far as I know this is all accurate, but I've never lived in a French-speaking nation to get the requisite first-hand experience. Here in America, I generally use tu almost all the time, but I almost always am talking French with another college student or a high school student.
If I'm trying to sound proverbial, then I might use "one". If I'm trying to sound biblical, I probably will use "thou". But in those cases it's usually more a case of being indirectly personal than being impersonal, and it's usually in fun. If I really care about something someone's done, though, I'll simply use "you" and have it be a personal expression.
Grammatically speaking, "you" is the plural second person pronoun already. English has merely morphed it into the singular first person pronoun as well. The true singular second person pronoun is "thou", not "you". So your problem stems from the fact that Anglophones use the 2nd person plural as the singular.
For comparison, consider French. Here are the relavant pronouns in each language:
2nd Person Singular
thou, tu
2nd Person Plural
you, vous
In French, you use vous when you are talking to a group of people. With time (sometime around the Middle Ages) vous also began being used as a term of respect to those with a higher social standing than you (or equal, depending on where you were to begin with). Nowadays, one would use tu when talking with family, friends and children, and vous with most adults, especially in formal situations or where they have higher rank than you (i.e. your boss). Tu is also widely used amongst teenagers amongst themselves regardless of how well they know each other. To call someone of higher rank tu can be an insult, and there is a verb (tutoyer) for this action. On the other hand, as tu is used amongst friends, it also can be a signifier of a more amiable relationship.
In English, by comparison, a similar thing began happening in the late Middle Ages, with you being used around those of higher rank rather than thou. In some Shakespeare one can notice thou and you differentiating rank, but even by Shakespeare's time you was being used with those of lower rank as well at times. As time kept going on, English merely switched entirely to using you in the singular rather than thou. It's the same thing that happened to French, except taken to a higher degree. Nowadays many Anglophones consider "thou" to sound formal and stilted, when it actually is informal. This can pose a nice opportunity for a subtle knack at someone who doesn't understand the difference.
So the solution in English is to revert to using "thou" for the singular, and keeping "you" only for the plural, or formal if you prefer that as well. The only challenge is convincing the other billion English speakers to do the same
.Of course, for impersonal expressions the French generally use on, a third-person singular pronoun. It's pretty much a direct equivalent of the English one. So those of us, myself included, who tend to use "you" in impersonal expressions, are just not using the right pronoun at all. I only used "one" here because I was thinking about it - in every case "one" appears in an impersonal expressions above, it was "you" before I backspaced and retyped it.
Any more knowledgable linguist or Francophone, please feel free to correct me. As far as I know this is all accurate, but I've never lived in a French-speaking nation to get the requisite first-hand experience. Here in America, I generally use tu almost all the time, but I almost always am talking French with another college student or a high school student.
scherbchen
well that can´t be good
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2006
- Messages
- 3,530
since I am not the Queen of England I prefer "you"...
I use both, but I tend to use "one" if there is any potential for confusion if whoever hears it might think that I'm specifically talking to them.
As for the you being the second person plural, that's changed depending on dialect; usually an additional word is added, so you get something like you lot, you'uns, youse, youse guys, you all, y'all, or you guys.
As for the you being the second person plural, that's changed depending on dialect; usually an additional word is added, so you get something like you lot, you'uns, youse, youse guys, you all, y'all, or you guys.
Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
I always use 'you', but agree that 'one' sounds much better.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
One, to avoid ambiguity, unless it's too stilted for the context.
holy king
Deity
"one", but that has to do with how my mother toungue deals with this kind of expression.
I use it when I want to be condescending to hard working, god fearing Pakeha.
Damn all god fearing Pakeha around here, they are a bunch of heathens.
Similar threads
