Do you reload?

[Rambuchan]

OMG! Spy missions! I often go without planting spies these days because of my reload promise and fear of failing to get the spy in. But yes this was one of the main areas reloading used to happen for me. They are so unsuccesful most of the time it just acts as another way of declaring war.

 

[k-a-bob]

You do realize that losing 30 cavs is worse than having a spy attemp fail? That means you pretty much lose the war, and good chance that the AI is going to attack your mainland. Just because of luck you lost all of your offensive units that must have taken you 50 turns to build. I doubt that you won't reload..

But one would probably never put 30 cavs in a city that is prone to flip.
I know I don't.

 

[Moonsinger]

I've recently changed position on this in a much firmer way than before. I now never reload a save game (unless the damn thing crashes of course). My reasons for never going back, despite some horrific loses and/or oversights, are simple:
...

How about you? Come on be honest - I used to be an abominably shameless reloader but am pleased that my old habits are behind me now.

When I just started playing Civ3, I reloaded all the time, but now I don't even reload even when I acidentally move the wrong unit. The bad events are part of the game, if you reload to avoid it, you don't know what you will be missing. For example, I have a stack of workers trying to build an express trade route to another civ. The trade route should have been completed two turns ago if I haven't accidentally moved one of my workers into the wrong tile. Two turns later, the item that I want to trade isn't on the list no more. Should I reload because I accidentally move one of my workers into a wrong tile? Since I can't really tell about the random future, may be that accident was a good thing. What if I find out later that by missing that trade deal, I now have resource to make a better deal with another civ?

 

[Zelda's Man]

Ok, imagine this: You have a huge stack of like 30 cavalry, you take over a city and fortify all of them there. Next turn, the city flips and you lose all of your army. Do you reload? Be honest, Mr. "I never reload.".

Never station all your troops in a city with foreigners. You will never win an emporer or deity level that way. Station them just outside the city to retake it in case it does flip.

I believe there is also a one turn grace period before a city can flip. So when you take the city, you can station all your troops there for that turn. Then next turn you need to move them out of the city. Then there will be no need for reloading.

I just had an army of four calvaries lose to a regular fortified infantry. It shouldn't have happened and I felt like reloading, but I couldn't be happy with my eventual victory if I knew I cheated.

 

[Rohili]

You do realize that losing 30 cavs is worse than having a spy attemp fail? That means you pretty much lose the war, and good chance that the AI is going to attack your mainland. Just because of luck you lost all of your offensive units that must have taken you 50 turns to build. I doubt that you won't reload..

Well, in the first place I wouldn't station 30 cavs in one city. I never put more than 6 units in a newly-captured city.

As for spy attempt failing, I'm reload only when the civ declares war on me. I hate getting into wars when I don't have any need for them.

Though of course, once I get more comfortable with the game I will eliminate reloading. I still consider myself "new".

 

[plarq]

Spy attempt:I always do gpt deal for solid goods before spying.If he or she declares,I get some freebies.
Never station SoD in high flip risk cities.Remeber,front fort built by combat settler still has a little odd to flip.I always do my war plan with "In case it flips".

 

[garyg]

I have to admit I'm still learning the game. I've just started Monarch level and sometimes I want to see, "what would happen if...?" or "How does this thing work?"
I will save and then explore, usually I don't reload. But, if it's the difference between reloading and abandoning the game over the failed experiment, I chalk it up to experience and say, "I'd never do that...again."

 

[Hyronymus]

This is a fun topic, I even voted. I'm not embarrased to say that I reload when something goes terribly wrong. I do save even more times though. What makes this topic funny is that people are slowly taking sides to proof they are better players. It's a game and I don't care what people think of me, I play it for my personal satisfaction.

With Moonsinger I wonder who doesn't restart Civ for the optimal starting point. Perhaps another fun topic?!

 

[Rohili]

It's a game and I don't care what people think of me, I play it for my personal satisfaction.

Quite true. It all boils down to what you want out of the game, really. If reloading doesn't diminish the fun factor or give you conscience qualms, and you are just playing for fun and not competitively, no one is to say what is shameful or not.

 

[Moonsinger]

Reloading to get a better starting position is cheating too If you reload 3 times to get a better starting position and then get a good starting position and win, then in truth you have lost 3 times and won once -- that should be how you state your record and stuff.

You can't "reload" to get a better starting position! Quit/abandon and Start another brand new game isn't the same as reloading.

However, I do understand your point of view on why you call that cheating. May be the following example will help support your point of view.

In some religions, people believe that after we die, we will be reborn into a different lifeform. For example, if you are a monkey on this life, you may come back as human...if you are poor on this life, you may be rich on the next, etc. Basically, what you were saying...no matter how our life get started, we should live/enjoy/endure life to the end. If we skip this life to start the next one, that's cheating!

 

[Percy]

well, for me, restarting, reloading because you moved an unit unintentionally, reloading after a spy attempt, or reloading to change the odds, is the same thing.
i'm ok with it, i DO reload because i have a hard time being focused on the WHOLE micromanagement thing (i usually play late, so i am a bit sleepy at times), and i cannot stand to have a city revolt because i did not hear MapStat's beep. sometimes, on the laptop, i type on "e" instead of "r"... so my worker doesn't road but moves in a random direction. i'm not a good player, i'm trying to play on emperor, and i don't need to waste two worker turns because the shortcut is stupid, the keyboard too small, or my ifngers too fat (NOT the latter, in fact ^^).

anyway, while i respect people saying it is cheating (it definitely is in a sense), i really don't understand people who say "NO i never reload. well, except for the XX/YY/ZZ reason, of course." this just doesn't make sense =)

 

[juz1138]

Only if something occurs which is downright insulting, such as a tank losing to a spearmen or 3 mech infantry elites getting attacked by a SoD consisting of solely of regular riflemen and 4 units into the attack phase the city is toast. The latter was downright infuriating so i reloaded and had an additional 3 mechs added to city defense and to my shock still lost the city, at which point i contemplated the odds and came to the conclusion that somethings are just fate grinned and bore it, unleashed the furies of my armies and to my shock apparently tanks have a nonexistent attack value when assaulting cavalry in an open plain!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BlackJAC]

I'm curious on why do you think MapFinder is exploiting the game? Sure, it will help you find a good starting position at 4000BC, but the rest is still up to you.

I'm splitting hairs, but my point is, he was making out that he plays the game in it's natural form. Surely to do so you'd have to accept whatever map that the game dealt you, no?

Yes, I restart when given a bad start, but I'm not the one claiming that I play the game without having any advantage whatsoever.

I don't see what the difference is when it comes down to losing 30 or so Cav's, then reloading and someone that won't start a game unless he/she has the proper foundations in place by restarting over and over again or by using a utility that does it for you.

 

[rysingsun]

yeah i reload occasionally. in the first turns of the game i get lazy about checking if a city has grown in population so i dont adjust the luxury slider and the city riots. i often go back to the previous turn's save for that. so yeah im a cheater. ive never reloaded for losing a battle or for having culture flips. i reloaded once for failing a spy because i reasoned to myself that i wouldnt have attempted it if i werent so tired. i know - a lame excuse. the game was already won anyway so do i get a win or a loss for that one? had i not reloaded it would have cost me up to eight hours of recovery time (3 turns) and i just wasnt in the mood for it.

what about this? the player is considering mobilization but he doesnt know the rules ... will mobilization stop work on theory of evolution or not? ohhh-i see it does! ok - reloading. is that a cheat or is that just "checking the rules"? ive done that before.

 

[Moonsinger]

I don't see what the difference is when it comes down to losing 30 or so Cav's, then reloading and someone that won't start a game unless he/she has the proper foundations in place by restarting over and over again or by using a utility that does it for you.

The difference is....starting over with a brand new randomly generated game isn't the same as reloading the same game. It will be a different "Seed" every time you start a new game; therefore, the map won't be the same. Playing a new map each time isn't the same as reloading.

 

[Mongol]

in my first game, i tried reloading when my high attack unit (dont remember which one exactly) couldnt kill an archer, until i found out about keeping random seed... so i thought it is a good thing and i am not gonna disable it, or there is always gonna be a temptation to reload until your last defending unit in your town holds off a bunch of enemy units
i reloaded to try to save 300some shields when AI built a wonder first and I needed just 1 turn to have time to research a new tech and get a new wonder to build...
also, I would reload in the very beginning trying to find a better place for my starting town, and I mean not restart the game, but explore the surroundings for a few turns, decide upon where to settle, reload the very beginning and move my setller there... somehow I think it is a bit less of a cheating than restarting until you get a good place to setlle right there!
what do you think about this particular one?

 

[Percy]

no, of course, but both are "starting again without playing to get a better game going".

EDIT: my message was in answer to Moonsinger's.

 

[Moonsinger]

no, of course, but both are "starting again without playing to get a better game going".

EDIT: my message was in answer to Moonsinger's.

Since I don't remember asking any question., I'm not sure which question you are refering to. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? I'm just a little confuse by your answer at the moment.

 

[TimBentley]

I only reload when I've unintentionally done something serious (for example I would reload if I accidentally gave a city away).

The reason why people restart until they have a good position is that if they don't, they have about a 0% chance of getting the top score (assuming somebody good has already played for that setup, otherwise it's so they can't be beaten easily). I also think it's fine to restart if you know from the beginning you're going to lose (for example, starting in tundra on sid). It's not fun if you're 100% sure you're going to lose.

 

[BlackJAC]

The difference is....starting over with a brand new randomly generated game isn't the same as reloading the same game. It will be a different "Seed" every time you start a new game; therefore, the map won't be the same. Playing a new map each time isn't the same as reloading.

You're still trying to stack the odds in your favour, whether it entails restarting a duff starting position or whether it's because you arsed up with your tactics/movement of troops, hence the reason why I think both are as questionable as one another. Fair play if you get handed the ideal starting tools without having to use a utility or by restarting the game. I fail to understand why restarting game after game can't be construed as a form of cheating.