Do you think you understand corruption (pre-C3C)?
- Thread starter alexman
- Start date
This is the corruption in one of my cities (warlord level, huge map about 3/4 of the map vertically from my capital) it is producing 23 sheilds of which 1 can be used, and 42 commerce of which 1 can be used. these both seem to be counter to the 95% max claim.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
Can you post a save 7rew? That is very unusual and may be a bug.
Ok here is the save game (please bear in mind this is my first warlord game, so i'm not that good) Also the numbers may be a bit higher as the city has grown since the post (but is producing no more) the city is the metropolis in the small area of green due north of the main area.
anarres
anarchist revolutionary
7rew, there is no save...
Welcome to CFC anyway!
Welcome to CFC anyway!
Grille
panel insect
7rew,
I suspect you either used the "reply-to-post-direct attachment feature" (whatever its name is, file size limit is only 100k here) or forgot to link to your (uploaded) file.
Here's an exhaustive description how to use the upload feature:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?forumid=109
(just ignore the fuss about bug description...)
Also, state your 'version' (vanilla, PTW, C3C) and the patch level you use.
I suspect you either used the "reply-to-post-direct attachment feature" (whatever its name is, file size limit is only 100k here) or forgot to link to your (uploaded) file.
Here's an exhaustive description how to use the upload feature:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/announcement.php?forumid=109
(just ignore the fuss about bug description...)
Also, state your 'version' (vanilla, PTW, C3C) and the patch level you use.
Grille
panel insect
Hmm, if you still use unpatched civ3 (v1.07), that may just be the problem (corruption was worse back then).
I stronly recommend to d/l latest patches and install them. You can find them e.g. here on CFC:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3patches.shtml
I cannot be bothered to downgrade. However, I tried to load your save-file (into PTW 1.27 though, but this *should* normally work with vanilla save files). Alas, I get a load error. I hoped that I could show you that the corruption cap is 95% when using the latest patch.
The different versions at different patch levels may be responsible for that load error, although I never faced a technical problem when loading an "obsolete" version's save file into the most recent version of vanilla or PTW.
So w/o being able to look into the game, my best guess is to blame the 46/47 corrupted commerce on the unpatched version.
I stronly recommend to d/l latest patches and install them. You can find them e.g. here on CFC:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3patches.shtml
I cannot be bothered to downgrade. However, I tried to load your save-file (into PTW 1.27 though, but this *should* normally work with vanilla save files). Alas, I get a load error. I hoped that I could show you that the corruption cap is 95% when using the latest patch.
The different versions at different patch levels may be responsible for that load error, although I never faced a technical problem when loading an "obsolete" version's save file into the most recent version of vanilla or PTW.
So w/o being able to look into the game, my best guess is to blame the 46/47 corrupted commerce on the unpatched version.
diploled
Chieftain
Guys, Thanks a lot for all the work you put into this thread, it's been invaluable for a lazy newbie like me. So I'd like to ask you a few more questions that I came across in my games and that I wonder if you would be able to help me with, since they don't seem to have been addressed in this thread.
Basically, I would like to know 3 things:
1) what is the effect of government penalties (e.g. Despotism -1 to shield and and commerce above 2), is corruption applied to the total before or after the penalty due to government type?
2) in a Golden Age, are the extra shield and commerce gained subject to waste/corruption or are they applied after waste/corruption effect is calculated (similar to the effect of a factory or marketplace)?
3) what if I mix both effects?
As an example, suppose I have a size 4 city with 25% corruption and waste, that produces 10 shields and 10 commerce before any bonus/penalty, broken down as follows (square#/shields/commerce):
before despotism penalty
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce
after despotism penalty
1/2/2, 2/2/2, 3/2/2, 4/2/2 - total 8 shields, 8 commerce
Will waste/corruption be 10 * .25 = 3 (2.5 rounded)
or
8 * .25 = 2 ?
Now suppose the same city, in a Golden Age:
before GA bonus
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce
after GA bonus
1/4/3, 2/4/3, 3/3/4, 4/3/4 - total 14 shield, 14 commerce
Will waste/corruption be 10 * .25 = 3 (2.5 rounded)
or
14 * .25 = 4 (3.5 rounded)?
Now let's make it really confusing, by having a wasteful GA in Despotism:
before GA bonus and Despotism penalty:
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce
Will it apply the penalty then the bonus, yielding
1/3/3, 2/3/3, 3/3/3, 4/3/3 - total 12 shield, 12 commerce
or the bonus then the penalty, resulting in
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce ?
How will corruption apply in this case?
Well, I hope I asked questions worth asking
)
Thanks,
Diploled
Basically, I would like to know 3 things:
1) what is the effect of government penalties (e.g. Despotism -1 to shield and and commerce above 2), is corruption applied to the total before or after the penalty due to government type?
2) in a Golden Age, are the extra shield and commerce gained subject to waste/corruption or are they applied after waste/corruption effect is calculated (similar to the effect of a factory or marketplace)?
3) what if I mix both effects?
As an example, suppose I have a size 4 city with 25% corruption and waste, that produces 10 shields and 10 commerce before any bonus/penalty, broken down as follows (square#/shields/commerce):
before despotism penalty
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce
after despotism penalty
1/2/2, 2/2/2, 3/2/2, 4/2/2 - total 8 shields, 8 commerce
Will waste/corruption be 10 * .25 = 3 (2.5 rounded)
or
8 * .25 = 2 ?
Now suppose the same city, in a Golden Age:
before GA bonus
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce
after GA bonus
1/4/3, 2/4/3, 3/3/4, 4/3/4 - total 14 shield, 14 commerce
Will waste/corruption be 10 * .25 = 3 (2.5 rounded)
or
14 * .25 = 4 (3.5 rounded)?
Now let's make it really confusing, by having a wasteful GA in Despotism:
before GA bonus and Despotism penalty:
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce
Will it apply the penalty then the bonus, yielding
1/3/3, 2/3/3, 3/3/3, 4/3/3 - total 12 shield, 12 commerce
or the bonus then the penalty, resulting in
1/3/2, 2/3/2, 3/2/3, 4/2/3 - total 10 shield, 10 commerce ?
How will corruption apply in this case?
Well, I hope I asked questions worth asking
)Thanks,
Diploled
Government penalty, GA, and mobilization, just change the number of shields/commerce you get from some land tiles, so they are subject to corruption.
Just add up all the shields/commerce, multiply by corruption, and round to the nearest integer.
Just add up all the shields/commerce, multiply by corruption, and round to the nearest integer.
diploled
Chieftain
Cool, thanks!
Would you mind if I ask another question (asking it already)?
I observed that the corrupted commerce is alocated into tax and science just like the "net" commerce, making my city screen show something like
Tax - 2 (corrupted) 1 (useful)
Science - 6 (corrupted) 3 (useful)
Luxury - 1 (useful)
The numbers are not real, just an example off the top of my head. I wonder if the corruption is calculated based on the total and them allocated according to my settings in the control panel, or if commerce is first allocated and then corruption is applied separately to tax, science and luxury.
Also, I would like to confirm this: it seems that, no matter how high the corruption is, I'll always get at least 1 commerce. So if I have a really small, undeveloped city that generates only 2 commerce, at 95% max corruption I would only lose 50% Is that correct?
Would you mind if I ask another question (asking it already)?
I observed that the corrupted commerce is alocated into tax and science just like the "net" commerce, making my city screen show something like
Tax - 2 (corrupted) 1 (useful)
Science - 6 (corrupted) 3 (useful)
Luxury - 1 (useful)
The numbers are not real, just an example off the top of my head. I wonder if the corruption is calculated based on the total and them allocated according to my settings in the control panel, or if commerce is first allocated and then corruption is applied separately to tax, science and luxury.
Also, I would like to confirm this: it seems that, no matter how high the corruption is, I'll always get at least 1 commerce. So if I have a really small, undeveloped city that generates only 2 commerce, at 95% max corruption I would only lose 50%
Is that correct?
absolut_nonsens
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 17
Hi everyone! I followed another approach regarding corruption, mainly because I usualy build large empires. So, I looked over the corruption percentage on the general budget level. My observation: Shortly, indifferent of how big the empire is, a good corruption management lowers corruption to losses around 10% of all the national revenues. That means that any of you, who maintains his/her losses from corruption to 7-15% of the national/imperial income, has success in circling the phenomena.
Klepsacovic
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2004
- Messages
- 1
On a similar note; does anyone else think it might make sense that garisoned troops (in Despotism, Monarch, and Communism) should decrease waste (ever try to be lazy when there's a tank next to you?) but increase corruption (due the troops "borrowing" to support themselves)? This would be an interesting effect, and very helpful with the waste in a sprawlng communist empire.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Has someone finally fiddled out how the WltKDs exactly work?
I did some testings, but I'm lost
. Completely.
In short, what I see is:
(Important: That city has the highest distance. If its distance is a lower one, that works like a increase of the OCN for that city. I.E., you will see an effect for WltKD, even if your total city count is way above 2xOCN.)
1a) You are not above 2xOCN; in WltKD
WltkD has an effect, but less than CH would. Adding a CH (or Police Station) will further decrease waste; but adding CH+Police Station has a huge additional effect (~-30%!).
1b) You are not above 2xOCN; not in WltKD
CH and PS alone or together decrease for about 10% each.
2a) You are substantially above 2xOCN; in WltKD
WltKD has zero effects. Adding a CH (or PS) will result in exactly the same decrease as the CH without WltKD would.
But, and that's what I completely fail to get in my head:
Adding a CH + PS again has a huge effect (~ -30%, compared to one of them alone).
2b) You are substantially above 2xOCN; not in WltKD
CH/PS do exactly what you'd expect.
(WltKD of course has no effect on corruption.)
Anyone able to explain that?
The effect of WltKD alone can be easily explained as 'For that city, the OCN is increased'; thus, if that particular city has a very high rank/you have lots of cities, you'd expect to see little to no effect. No problem here. Same as the 'linear' effect one corruption reducer has.
But I absuletely cannot explain why in case of WltKDs two (and more?) corruption reducers will result in such a huge reduction of waste.
I did some testings, but I'm lost
. Completely.In short, what I see is:
(Important: That city has the highest distance. If its distance is a lower one, that works like a increase of the OCN for that city. I.E., you will see an effect for WltKD, even if your total city count is way above 2xOCN.)
1a) You are not above 2xOCN; in WltKD
WltkD has an effect, but less than CH would. Adding a CH (or Police Station) will further decrease waste; but adding CH+Police Station has a huge additional effect (~-30%!).
1b) You are not above 2xOCN; not in WltKD
CH and PS alone or together decrease for about 10% each.
2a) You are substantially above 2xOCN; in WltKD
WltKD has zero effects. Adding a CH (or PS) will result in exactly the same decrease as the CH without WltKD would.
But, and that's what I completely fail to get in my head:
Adding a CH + PS again has a huge effect (~ -30%, compared to one of them alone).
2b) You are substantially above 2xOCN; not in WltKD
CH/PS do exactly what you'd expect.
(WltKD of course has no effect on corruption.)
Anyone able to explain that?
The effect of WltKD alone can be easily explained as 'For that city, the OCN is increased'; thus, if that particular city has a very high rank/you have lots of cities, you'd expect to see little to no effect. No problem here. Same as the 'linear' effect one corruption reducer has.
But I absuletely cannot explain why in case of WltKDs two (and more?) corruption reducers will result in such a huge reduction of waste.
Thanks for the analysis. I've noticed that when taking over captured cities the corruption/waste whatever you want to call it (Loss of money and production) is dramatically larger than if I would have razed the city and built my own. This is true even after the city has calmed down and I have grown some of my own people in it.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
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