Does anyone ever skip religion completely?

[Skallagrimson]

One bit of a gotcha when you found a religion: if you build the Great Library (and I did last night in my game), it becomes very difficult to get that GP to build the shrine! You can't un-assign the two scientist specialists so you have to either hope your one priest from that same city will bring up a prophet, or try like hell to get Angkor Wat, at the expense of other, more tasty wonders. It's proving to be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[angeleyes]

You could assign a priest in another city, allthough you have to be patient.

 

[cabert]

One bit of a gotcha when you found a religion: if you build the Great Library (and I did last night in my game), it becomes very difficult to get that GP to build the shrine! You can't un-assign the two scientist specialists so you have to either hope your one priest from that same city will bring up a prophet, or try like hell to get Angkor Wat, at the expense of other, more tasty wonders. It's proving to be more trouble than it's worth.

Although you're right, I wouldn't cry to muchabout it. I'd rather have this GS quick then wait for the second, third or even fourth great person to be a prophet. If you really want one, you can go for stonehenge, oracle, ... = a good deal of prophetic wonders + a temple and priest.

Let's say you go for the Oracle (very highly valued wonder, although i'm not a big fan personnaly) in a resonnably high food city, you can build a temple for your founded religion and have 5 GPP/turn, starting before the GL is built (Oracle is early!). You could have the prophet before the GL is built, but let's assume you were slow building the oracle and the temple, you would have at least a few GPPs in store before the GL is finished (even if rushed).
This way, either your first or second Great person will be a prophet
.
Of course if you build the Oracle and the GL in the same city, you only hace 1/4 odds for a prophet, and 3/4 odds for a scientist without hired priest, and 2/5 vs 3/5 with a priest. If you really want this prophet, i suggest keeping the GPP pools "pure".

 

[Skallagrimson]

Yeah, I think patience is the key, and limiting (temporarily) other specialists in other cities to just the GL's scientists. It's blasted out two GS already, but I think the third GP's gonna be the Prophet.

Ironically the reason I wanted the shrine was so I could have enough commerce to keep research at 100% so in the very very long run it's moot, as the GS give lots of beakers on really good techs.

I've avoided having a state religion which has gone a LONG way toward avoiding "those nasty religious wars". I've been able to get away with tight borders, not joining other civs in their stupid quixotic attacks on the larger civs, not adopting their useless civics, not offering techs as "help", the whole nine, and still they don't hate me enough to attack me. With peacemongering like that I'm able to accelerate the economy and queue-swap a reserve force for a time when I'll be ready for my own conquests.

 

[neferator]

Having religion can be good for relations. One game I played recently, Egypt founded Judaism. It was the only religion on their continent, all the others were founded on my continent (not all by me). Even in 1947 when the game ended, that entire continent and the one to the south of it were unified by Judaism... a solid block of nations. In a similar vein, on my continent in the game I'm playing now, I founded all existing religions. I spread Buddhism and not the others and now I have a solid core of nations loyal to me thanks to religion - including four of the top five (other than myself of course).

 

[jesusin]

I almost never declare a state religion. Usually I try not to be the first to any religion. The reasons have already been explained in the thread by others. I would like to add:

- Declaring a state religion only gives you 1 aditional happiness (at the cost of some culture). You can build temples without a state religion. 1 single happiness won't take you far. Go for Hereditary Rule or Drama for a permanent solution to the problem.

- You want bad relations between AIs. Once an AI has found a religion, they will declare it their state religion and they will not change it. The more religions are founded by different AIs, the worst relation they will have. Do not found a religion! This is of paramount importance in a continents map. The last thing you need is a block of brothers in faith on the other continent.

- Diplomatic considerations aside, I would never use a missionary in a foreign country. Dozens of hammers for 1 single gpt is not such a good deal. And the AI receives a much bigger boost: they can now build a temple, a monastery, they have additional culture...

In short, I appreciate a religion spreading to me. I wholeheartedly thank the AI for sending me their missionaries. I enjoy taking a city where a shrine has been built. But I don't think building missionaries is worth the effort (there are exceptions like cultural games or close UN votes...). I don't think using a GreatPriest for a shrine is worth it. I don't think founding a religion is a good idea.

 

[angeleyes]

You're emphasising the counterpoints of having a religion. I accept to be careful with converting to a religion (except when you are spiritual!). But organized religion is huge! But you must have civ's having the same religion as you have otherwise you become very isolated.

I don't think using a GreatPriest for a shrine is worth it.

???? even if you don't want to make missionares, a religion spreads, and a shrine gives you a lot of money, especially with a bank, wallstreet etc.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

For cultural games there is a trade off. Do you keep founding religions and stay with Pagaism to keep the +5 culture in founding cities and +1 in others you spread it to? OR, do you use OR to build temples and monasteries quicker and to ultiately gain culture? I figure it's a balance as well, but when is the time to switch? once you have enough wonders and religious building, Pacifism is great for generating GPPs but with culture multipliers from wonders, civics and cathedrals, that extra +5 culture can be huge. Any thoughts?

 

[Swedishguy]

It can be huge indeed.

 

[cabert]

For cultural games there is a trade off. Do you keep founding religions and stay with Pagaism to keep the +5 culture in founding cities and +1 in others you spread it to? OR, do you use OR to build temples and monasteries quicker and to ultiately gain culture? I figure it's a balance as well, but when is the time to switch? once you have enough wonders and religious building, Pacifism is great for generating GPPs but with culture multipliers from wonders, civics and cathedrals, that extra +5 culture can be huge. Any thoughts?

+5 cpt is huge in the first turns+in the beginning you need to let other religions go in = you should not build any missionary.
and it's also huge later when multiplied by 3 or more, in a cultural race = after liberalism: free religion + free speech is great.
In between, it's not that important, and you need the missionaries.

 

[Swedishguy]

And you could earn HUGE CP's!

 

[Skallagrimson]

I'm not sure if it's the "right" strategy but when I found a religion I don't convert to it right away. The last thing I need is to have my "heathen religion" angering powerful neighbors.

But once I get the Theocracy tech is pretty much makes no sense NOT to have a state religion and benefit from the unit production and experience bonus of having that religion. And by then I'm doing my military buildup and actually want other civs to attack me (so that I can sustain a war longer with less WW penalty), while I'm queue-swapping a counteroffensive army.

Sometimes I'll start the queue-swap before I get Theocracy, and then just keep the units queued at one turn builds until the Great Holy War against the Infidels Who Attacked Us phase of my games.

 

[Swedishguy]

One more thing: Great Specializt's is more worthwhile than Great Shrine's when it comes to additional effects e.g. GP's Sistine Chapel, Representation.