Does anyone here ever use galleys and triemes?
- Thread starter henyo10
- Start date
Fabien
Warlord
With the arrival of 3.17 I built my first trieme to fight those barbarian galleys (which spawn quite often now). If your capital has seafood, you need atleast one of them to defend it against raiding galleys. I also use galleys very often to settle the small islands nearby (map permitting of course). But I agree, it's quite hard to wage war with them, but if the map allows it, why not? I mean, they stay for a long long time, unless you beeline for astronomy...
MqsTout
Warlord
I do sometimes, but it depends on the map top. If I'm playing archipelago or the like, I will. Otherwise, I tend to wait until caravels.
mynystry
jaguar warrior from hell
hmmm... well, as Fabien said the most useful thing for galleys and tiremes is fighting barb galleys i think. galleys are mostly for transport units, and tiremes come a bit late imo. then i usually build very few of them. but maybe now with the new patch they will gain importance agains barbs.
i don't know why they removed the option we had in last Civ games, to send galleys to the sea in adventurous moves... most often they will sink, but sometimes with a lot of luck they will survive and discover new lands
i don't know why they removed the option we had in last Civ games, to send galleys to the sea in adventurous moves... most often they will sink, but sometimes with a lot of luck they will survive and discover new lands
Ringan
Varangian
Triremes are useful in early wars. If you want to inflict total war on your enemies you can build a stack of em and blockade enemy coastal cities, quickly stunting their growth.
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Meh... I usually don't start building a navy until ocean-going ironclads (Wolf-mod-time)... I will rush Optics to get Caravels and send two caravels in opposite directions to get the naval bonus though (comes in handy later), and if I spot a juicy open continent I will use Galleons... but militarily speaking, I usually don't try for foreign wars until the industrial age, because waging a war on a distant continent with galleys or galleons is usually more trouble then it's worth.
To answer the original question? No... it's a rare day if I ever build a Galley or Trireme.
To answer the original question? No... it's a rare day if I ever build a Galley or Trireme.
I use them, but I play exclusively in marathon mode. They have a longer useful life in marathon (as do all unit types). Though, even in marathon, triemes come a bit late to be useful for long. It might be better if triemes came earlier in the tech tree, perhaps at the same time as galleys.
Pir Lan Tota
Warlord
I use them to gaurd my sea-food resources...They wont stop a determined enemy, but at least they will keep your sea-food resources safe for a bit
Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
Yep. Barb Galleys will pillage your seafood tiles, so you need a Trireme to defend them. Plus Triremes beat Galleys most of the time, and you can get them up to 10 XP before upgrading.
Balderstrom
Emperor
I had a map that looked something like this:
To move units from my (C)apital to (A)nother city by road would take 4-7 turns (1-2MV units). As opposed to 1 turn with 3 Galleys, 2 turns with 2 galleys, and 1 Turn when they were upgraded to Galleons (2 Galleons).
I usually have a few tiremes, but I find them one of the least useful units you can build, I tend to build more of them when I'm getting close to Frigates, so I can buy the upgrade.
I believe early ship stats would balance much better as:
3
Tireme : +50% vs Galley, Galleon
3 Galley
3 Caravel : +25% vs Tireme
4 Galleon
Once Caravels or Galleons hit the scene Tiremes become nearly useless.
Code:
A
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\__________/ CI usually have a few tiremes, but I find them one of the least useful units you can build, I tend to build more of them when I'm getting close to Frigates, so I can buy the upgrade.
I believe early ship stats would balance much better as:
3
Tireme : +50% vs Galley, Galleon 3
Galley3
Caravel : +25% vs Tireme4
GalleonOnce Caravels or Galleons hit the scene Tiremes become nearly useless.
Yes, but I think that's intentional and should be expected. All older units become useless when they're replaced by the next upgrade.
The game stages for ships are roughly:
Galley/trieme
Galleon/frigate
Transport/destroyer
I think the only (minor) issue with triemes is they usually can't be built until just before galleons, so their usefulness isn't very long. But I suppose that depends on whether or not you bee-line for them.
Balderstrom
Emperor
Except Galleon's can't upgrade to a Frigate, only a Tireme/Caravel can.
So if you build Galleon's for "war" - you wind up having to build a buttload more units when you can get Frigates.
So if you build Galleon's for "war" - you wind up having to build a buttload more units when you can get Frigates.
I will only use galleons for war until I get frigates. Then I'll just use them for shipping. There's no waste in doing that. Galleons stay useful for a long time, because transports are a long way away.
My only gripe with naval warfare is that there is single unit type missing between frigates and destroyers. Something with a strength around 12. Ship-of-the-line would be more useful if it simply had a base strength of 12, and remove the bonus over frigates. Then, it could at least compete with destroyers if needed.
My only gripe with naval warfare is that there is single unit type missing between frigates and destroyers. Something with a strength around 12. Ship-of-the-line would be more useful if it simply had a base strength of 12, and remove the bonus over frigates. Then, it could at least compete with destroyers if needed.
mynystry
jaguar warrior from hell
beeline metal casting makes no sense in the early game when there are more crucial techs to develop. metal casting is too costly. the only way to get it so early is hitting the jackpot in a goody hut
galleys come early and cheap with sailing, i think tiremes should follow soon. maybe sailing+bronze working or sailing+iron working at much. and to make them not so overpowered they could be 3
+25 vs galley
Balderstrom
Emperor
@ Mynystry
Exactly, though I'd throw in the Caravel's +25% vs Tireme
Those numbers appear to pan out better.
Exactly, though I'd throw in the Caravel's +25% vs Tireme
Those numbers appear to pan out better.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Sorry... ignore what I said before. I don't know what I was thinking.
I mean the missing unit is between ironclad and destroyer (not frigate and destroyer). Something around strength 18.
Most unit upgrade paths have the improved unit about 50% stronger than the old unit. But we're missing that "50% stronger" unit after ironclad. Instead, it goes 150% stronger from ironclad to destroyer.
Right now, we have:
galley 2
caravelle 3
galleon 4
frigate 6
ship-of-the-line 6 + 50% bonus
ironclad 12
destroyer 30
battleship 40
It all moves along smoothly, except for the missing link between ironclad and destroyer.
If ship-of-the-line was modded to be strength 18 (with no bonus), it makes for a smoother upgrade path. You could then use it to fend off destroyers, if necessary.
I think just the one link is missing.
I mean the missing unit is between ironclad and destroyer (not frigate and destroyer). Something around strength 18.
Most unit upgrade paths have the improved unit about 50% stronger than the old unit. But we're missing that "50% stronger" unit after ironclad. Instead, it goes 150% stronger from ironclad to destroyer.
Right now, we have:
galley 2
caravelle 3
galleon 4
frigate 6
ship-of-the-line 6 + 50% bonus
ironclad 12
destroyer 30
battleship 40
It all moves along smoothly, except for the missing link between ironclad and destroyer.
If ship-of-the-line was modded to be strength 18 (with no bonus), it makes for a smoother upgrade path. You could then use it to fend off destroyers, if necessary.
I think just the one link is missing.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
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- Messages
- 12,418
Well actually for between ironclad and Destroyer,
some early coal powered battleship might be good
However Combustion only needs 3 techs more than an Iron clad (Railroad, Combustion, Scientific Method.. for the Oil)
so any new ship would be Very close, perhaps Physics and Railroad... str 20 move 3, ocean going requires coal cost 150?
It would more be a oil free naval alternative.. if you are without land based oil, build theseto defend your galleons while you go Get Oil (or defend your coasts while you research Fission/Plastics for other ways of getting destroyers)
some early coal powered battleship might be good
However Combustion only needs 3 techs more than an Iron clad (Railroad, Combustion, Scientific Method.. for the Oil)
so any new ship would be Very close, perhaps Physics and Railroad... str 20 move 3, ocean going requires coal cost 150?
It would more be a oil free naval alternative.. if you are without land based oil, build theseto defend your galleons while you go Get Oil (or defend your coasts while you research Fission/Plastics for other ways of getting destroyers)
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
It's simply amazing how many times this exact same discussion always crops-up... and it's already taken care of!
Give the Wolfshanze Mod a try in my sig-line... for anyone that has actually played it, I have heard no complaints about the naval progression and only appreciation for this aspect and how it's implemented... the ages have plenty of time and well proportioned units (due in-part to the "Age" break-down). Fixing the naval aspects (or rather lack-there-of) has always been the primary focus of the mod.
Naval Unit Changes/Ages/New Units:
Spoiler :
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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- 12,418
see that I would see as too many units... did you add a naval unit with Astronomy and Gunpowder, one with Optics and Engineering, one with Optics and Banking, one with Optics and Education, one with Sailing and Bronze Working, one with Sailing and Iron Working, one with Compass and Machinery
Now that is the focus of your mod (and people who play your mod would like that)... but I think there is probably enough as it is
Now that is the focus of your mod (and people who play your mod would like that)... but I think there is probably enough as it is
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