Does anyone use chariots and horsemen?

[DS_Legionary]

I have only built few chariots, but I do build Horsemen very extensively. When it comes down to it in the early game I'd mauch rather have that extra movement point over the extra attack/defense of a Swordsman. I try to end my wars as quickly as possible, and you can't really launch quick wars with Swords.

Besides all those Horsies upgrade to Knights, and Swords only upgrade to Mideval Infantry. So, I suppose the question is which would you rather have later in the game, Knights or Infantry.

 

[Tomoyo]

Besides all those Horsies upgrade to Knights, and Swords only upgrade to Mideval Infantry. So, I suppose the question is which would you rather have later in the game, Knights or Infantry.

It costs 80 gold to upgrade to a Knight, 120 in Conquests, while it only takes 20 gold to upgrade swordsman to a(n?) MDI. And you can have MDIs for nearly half the cost off Knights. I'm not a big fan of having a force of nearly all knights. If I have a Knight UU, that's another story.

 

[Siegmund]

I actually build horsemen almost to the exclusion of swordsmen even if I have iron.

Because horsemen often retreat with 1 hitpoint left instead of expending themselves against a target, a war vs. spearman may actually involve fewer losses when fought with horsemen than with swordsmen.

There are also still a few of us playing Vanilla Civ3 where the upgrade to Medieval Infantry doesn't exist and swordsmen are dead-end units.

 

[SergeantVictor]

If I have horses, I train and use some horsemen, but never chairots.
I use them for explore (but if I'm playing with Zulus, or Iroqueses, or anything else expansionist civilization, I'm using scouts), and for the attack I use pikemen, archers, swordsmen.

 

[Tomoyo]

If I have horses, I train and use some horsemen, but never chairots.
I use them for explore (but if I'm playing with Zulus, or Iroqueses, or anything else expansionist civilization, I'm using scouts), and for the attack I use pikemen, archers, swordsmen.

You actually have a need to do some exploring when horsemen come?

Does "for the attack" mean your attack stack, or your offensive units? And you use pikes and not spears? No wonder you need swords.

 

[RegentMan]

I often use horsemen but never chariots. I just don't find them useful.

 

[Xenos]

I often use horsemen but never chariots. I just don't find them useful.

Same here its good with the zulus because the impi are as fast as horsemen

 

[The Last Conformist]

Haven't built a chariot since the last time I played as Japan and started next to a horse resource.

I usually use mainly swords and catapults for offense in the ancient age, but I like to have some horsies along - neat for picking off workers and enemy horsemen. They're also got for mobile defense.

 

[Samson]

I prefer horsemen to swords because -

They retreat, so you may loose fewer than horses.
They do not need to sit next to the city to be attacked before attacking.
They spend less time in the enemys teretory, so less WW.
upgrade to knights is better. When you are making war with knights, any other unit tends to be left behind, so are usless.

The big advantage of swords is that you can build upo a wariour army before you have any resorces, and mass upgrade when you get iron.

YMMV, etc.

 

[jb1964]

Horsemen all the time.

2 movement
- Get to front faster
- Search map more quickly
- Attack/Retreat - Weaken enemy and then throw in the Swordsmen
Upgrade to Knight, Cav
Quick offensive repsonse to threats
Poor defenders

 

[SergeantVictor]

You actually have a need to do some exploring when horsemen come?

Does "for the attack" mean your attack stack, or your offensive units? And you use pikes and not spears? No wonder you need swords.

In larger maps, yes. If I don't have to explore anything, I kill barbarians. (I always set the max at Barbarian activity.)

I use what I have. The "for the attack" meant I use they for killing other nations. But if I have only horsemen and the enemies have rounded me, I won't surrender.

 

[Jaca]

Horsemen a lot. Fast units with always decent chance of retreating. One of the tactics I sometimes use when going for the capital of a rival empire having no horses, is take it with the slow units (Swordsmen), and then pick the nearest neighbour with the horsemen in the same turn to minimise the chance of a flip (resistance plus cultural pressure is not a good combination).

I find Chariots overpriced! A suggestion I would like to do here is make shielding prices per 5S, instead of 10S. This could fine tune pricing of units, especially in the Ancient Era where the difference of 1 attack or defense point is relatively huge! Am I not up to date? Is this done in Conquest ? (I haven't bought it yet, but intend to very soon), but I saw the Curragh costing 15S. What I noticed as a decent rule of thumb (at least during the Ancient and Medieval Ages, in my opinion):
1. Attackers: a cost of about 10S per attack point (Warrior 10S, Archer 20S, Swordsman 30S, Medieval Infantry 40S). Standard foot soldiers get a Defense of 2 after Iron Working, except the Longbowman (which does not require Iron!);
2. Defenders : a cost of 10S per defense point (Warrior 10S, Spear 20S, Pikeman 30S and I find Musketman overpriced for its 4 Defense, despite its (useless except against Longbowmen) extra attack point);
3. Fast units: cost 50% more: Horseman (2-1-2) 1,5*20S = 30S. Knight (4-3-2 in CIV PTW): 1,5 * 40S = 60S plus 10S for the extra defense point = 70S. Gallic Swordsmen: 1,5 * 30S = 45S. The Gallic (50S in CIV-PTW) is maybe also slightly overpriced, especially as a UU.

Some units are in my opinion overpriced (and most Modern Era units by far underpriced : Modern Armor in PTW for a poor 120S)! The Chariot is one of them. It should cost 15S instead of 20S. That would make them appear more often, as they are fast and thus usefull (wheeled) warriors, making good use of the growing network to defend the young empire.

Any comments?

Regards,
Jaca

 

[Samson]

This thread did get me thinking. Given, lets say the AI has a town on grass with 10 verteran spearmen, ands you have an infinate number (so you will always be attacking with fully healed units) of both horsemen and swords (verteran), which are you likely to loose fewer of? I have seen a couple of combat calculators, but they do not include the chance to retreat.

 

[WarMonkeY]

You know, an Iroquis Mounted Warrior is a damn fast swordsman with less defence.. Quite nice for quick and painless invations....