Does Spain always start near a wonder?

[budweiser]

So far it did in three straight games.

One time it was Gibraltar and I was getting rich. The next it was Mt Sinai and I had my religion upgraded on t49. This last one is another religious mountain which there are many.

Step 1: find wonder.
Step 2. Buy a settler with the money.
Step 3 - Put city 2 in range of wonder.
Win.

Moderator Action: Moved to General Discussion.

 

[krc]

No, Spain does not always start close to a wonder. They do not have any special start bias, so they have the same chance of starting close to a wonder as any other civ.

I've read through the Lua code that places civs. It starts by spreading the civs around the map while accounting for terrain biases (forest for Iroquois, hills for Inca, etc). It then places the wonders, making sure they are not too close to any capital. And then it places the city-states (which is why they tend to be closer to wonders).

 

[akashsara]

Definitely not. I've never started near a wonder in any game as Spain. Kinda why I don't like Spain.

 

[ense7en]

Luck of the draw.

 

[budweiser]

Perhaps there is a start bias for Spain that places them near a particular type of terrain, desert, plains, central latitude?


I have recored 10 standard emperor continent starts where I went scout scout first to reveal maximum territory. I will post the results after I roll 10 starts with a random civ each time and go scout scout first.

Maybe the wonders are always theree and I never notice them, but most of the time, you can find the wonder, buy the settler and get the tile bonus.

 

[Browd]

Depends on your definition of nearby. Based on krc's description of how the map gets drawn, unless Spain is off in some corner of the map, on a pangea map it will often spawn within easy scouting range of several wonders, probably with one close enough to serve as city site #2. But, still random/luck of the draw.

 

[Anelyn]

I prefer continents map types, and spain is always one of the most intriguing civs for me to play. You may get lucky and bust couple wonders early on (not mentioning the broken ones) and allow you to get on even terms with AI's (as you can afford to buy a settler and a worker early on - epic speed, 420g worker and 680g settler), or you may not get lucky and find them late or them being too few on your cont to make an impact (like 2 wonders and you get there 2nd, rest being on other cont / ocean - sometimes I even saw 2 great coral bareer or what is called 2 of them next to eachother if that makes any sense lol).

The opener with them seems more like a gamble than a strategy in and by itself, but is definitely something that may alter your building / tech plan as well as SP strategy.

 

[Mondoflow]

Spain definitely does not have a bias towards wonders. I am frequently unable to claim a wonder for Spain and I think I've managed to discover the wonder first only once. This is definitely a luck thing, though, as I am frequently able to claim wonders as other civilizations. It's only on Spain that I have such poor luck.

 

[metatheory]

I use a 2 scout start when playing Spain. Tough to do on Immortal and stay on target with hammers but works perfectly on Emperor.

 

[budweiser]

I played 8 more starts with random civs and found about the same result. Most of the time (7/10 at least) there is a wonder close enough so you can put it in your second ring. Although, I would say the wonders I got with Spain were much nicer (you could say luck). The only issue seems to be total amount of land tiles around you.

The trick is finding it. But if you build 2 scouts first, you will have no trouble exploring all around you by turn 15 - 20 and you will have a pretty clear idea of what to do next.

Note: I got a lot of +1 pop in all of this which was very nice.

 

[Createk]

Perhaps there is a start bias for Spain that places them near a particular type of terrain, desert, plains, central latitude?


I have recored 10 standard emperor continent starts where I went scout scout first to reveal maximum territory. I will post the results after I roll 10 starts with a random civ each time and go scout scout first.

Maybe the wonders are always theree and I never notice them, but most of the time, you can find the wonder, buy the settler and get the tile bonus.

Waiting for results!

 

[budweiser]

These are Natural Wonders within reach of the first ring. No need to steal from a CS unless otherwaise noted.

Spain, in no particular order.
Great Barrier Reef
Gibraltar
None
2 minor ones like Old Faithful
Fountain of Youth
Mt Sinai
Cerro d Potassi (inside CS) Sri Pada (open)
Sri Pada (screen shot above)
None
Mt Sinai
Sri Pada (found it second) & Cerro di Pada

These are the random civs:
Spain LOL - Sri Pada, far away minor like Old Faithful
Austria - Old Faithful
Inca - El Dorado!
Boudica - None
USA - Grand Mesa
Askia - Grand Mesa
Polynesia - Mt Kailash
Monty - None

Did not continue after that. I think a pattern is clear, there is almost always a Natural Wonder that you can get in your first ring on a continent map.

 

[Browd]

What do you mean by first and second ring? 1st and 2nd circles/rings of eligible tiles for new city locations?

 

[budweiser]

What do you mean by first and second ring? 1st and 2nd circles/rings of eligible tiles for new city locations?

Thats an older term, from civ III maybe when placing cities in rings were in fashion. It means a suitable spot for a second city about 5-6 tiles away from the cap. There is almost always a natural wonder within 3 tiles of this position.

See the screen shot for an example of what I mean.

 

[Browd]

Gotcha. That's what I suspected (not the Civ 3 reference - never played it).

 

[budweiser]

I just did it again on immortal. Twice in fact. First I found the Great Barrier Reef and have 1000 gold to use against Sweden. I've been doing it all day. This time, I got Sri Pada plus found another one near a CS, so 1000 gold on immortal. Its turn 15 and I have 2 cities and a pantheon. One with Nature is 20 faith per turn. Spain is like reverse diety, you are the one with 2 cities and the AI has one. Lots of fun to just roll a map and see what you get.

Reminds me a bit like Babylon, a very big advantage in the early game.

 

[metatheory]

I just did it again on immortal. Twice in fact. First I found the Great Barrier Reef and have 1000 gold to use against Sweden. I've been doing it all day. This time, I got Sri Pada plus found another one near a CS, so 1000 gold on immortal. Its turn 15 and I have 2 cities and a pantheon. One with Nature is 20 faith per turn. Spain is like reverse diety, you are the one with 2 cities and the AI has one. Lots of fun to just roll a map and see what you get.

Reminds me a bit like Babylon, a very big advantage in the early game.

Yeah, I build 2 scouts and stick to the coast.. trying to find City States as they have a wonder about 15% of the time. Almost guaranteed one 1st find and 100g for simply finding them helps a ton. They are one of my favorite civs. Combine 500-1000g with Liberty and take down a nearest civ... you are on a good path then.

 

[Lordleoz]

According to my experience, Spain tends to start near Natural Wonders:

1. Mt. Fuji
2. Nothing
3. Old Faithful
4. Mt. Kailash

But I guess it actually doesn't always happen. It's just because in normal situation, civilizations have one Natural Wonder not far from their capitals, since there are 5-6 Natural Wonders in a standard map. Spain does have ocean starting bias, though.

 

[Moriarte]

They do not have any special start bias

They do. Coastal.

 

[tommynt]

Fun to discuss random?

I allways get more 1s as 0s so 1 is definatly there more often.