Does Stalin really belong in the game?

[caketastydelish]

Oldschooler, you have to keep in mind that Firaxis is bound by the "lowest common denominator". Even with that, they got a ton of crap from people about minimum specs, remember? So, any mod that is included in the official game simply cannot use Huge maps and thus have all the detail you're asking for. Otherwise, they would have to cram the entire globe into a standard size map. What, all of France is one city? What fun would that be?

Wodan

RFC uses a huge size map.

 

[jsweeney]

the thing about no hitler is that he killed 12 million people in 5 years, and is generaly seen as the "loser" in the end, as stalin really killed 18 million over 20 years or so, which doesn't make it right, just less crazy, and in the end Stalin neither loss nor defeated america, but he did create an 'IRON CURTAIN" between russia and america.

 

[a4phantom]

the thing about no hitler is that he killed 12 million people in 5 years, and is generaly seen as the "loser" in the end, as stalin really killed 18 million over 20 years or so, which doesn't make it right, just less crazy, and in the end Stalin neither loss nor defeated america, but he did create an 'IRON CURTAIN" between russia and america.

I think Stalin is viewed as having killed people in the line of business, while Hitler did it for fun. Stalin's the hangman,and Hitler's the guy in the basement with the chainsaw.

Edit: I'm not saying I agree, I'm just saying I think those are the popular views. Stalin as a fairly run-of-the-mill evil dictator and Hitler as something special.

 

[caketastydelish]

I think Stalin is viewed as having killed people in the line of business, while Hitler did it for fun. Stalin's the hangman,and Hitler's the guy in the basement with the chainsaw.

He should have at least escorted them out of Russia or something... Why kill them?

 

[a4phantom]

He should have at least escorted them out of Russia or something... Why kill them?

He perceived them as threats. The man was an unbelievable paranoid.

 

[caketastydelish]

He perceived them as threats. The man was an unbelievable paranoid.

That does not justify his atrocities.

 

[a4phantom]

That does not justify his atrocities.

Obviously.

 

[ICNP]

They have a Movie on Stalin they played in my Modern World Class. It was very interesting especially the part of his Wife:

After riding in a train across Russia and seeing the people's plight due to lack of food she publically insulted Stalin saying he had failed his people. Fearing for her life she commited Suicide. Of course Stalin would not tell anyone why it happened. IIRC Stalin picked someone on his Hitlist as the murderer.

 

[a4phantom]

They have a Movie on Stalin they played in my Modern World Class. It was very interesting especially the part of his Wife:

After riding in a train across Russia and seeing the people's plight due to lack of food she publically insulted Stalin saying he had failed his people. Fearing for her life she commited Suicide. Of course Stalin would not tell anyone why it happened. IIRC Stalin picked someone on his Hitlist as the murderer.

I saw the guy who wrote The Court of the Red Tsar interviewed and he said that on his deathbed with his last strength Stalin pointed to his family members as if to order their executions.

 

[Dabur]

That does not justify his atrocities.

Hi ,

nope it does not indeed

we will probably never know what he left in terms of bodies , ...

there is a museum in moscow that shows his under ground 192 step office , dig out by over 600 people , at least 20 died in WW II to build it , but when told the work was dangerous he just told them to hurry up , ....

the surprising fact is that no one did a full scale coup de etat against him , ...

imagine if someone would have killed him , how many lives would have been spared , ...

Have a nice early monday

 

[a4phantom]

the surprising fact is that no one did a full scale coup de etat against him , ...

Apparently his atrocities were effective as well as unjustified.

 

[Balderstrom]

Geez OldSchooler you sure started a controversial thread!

I kept up with it when it was a halfdozen pages or so...
Have any of the Russian players piped in with their views?

 

[ICNP]

Effective to the extreme... If he considered you popular with the people then all the more reason to have you killed. Without popular leaders a Coup is near impossible. Stalin even has pictures of Friends who have "fallen out" washed away in order to remove them from the picture. Out of a picture of Stalin and his 15 top advisor's, only 7 remain.

 

[Comrade Alex]

Stalin was phenomenally popular with the people anyway.
Even my old granddad, carted off to a Siberian prison camp with all his family, doesn't have any bones with Stalin, just Communists.

The thing to remember about Stalin's leadership in the Second World War, is that the millions dead as a product of his ceaseless forced labour programmes were a necessity in order to prevent the onslaught of the Wehrmacht. Admittedly, the problem Russia faced in 1941 was exacerbated by his senseless purge of the Red Army, but the fact remains that his brutality and forced labour programmes were a necessity in repelling the Nazi invasion.
More like the lesser of two evils.

 

[frekk]

He should have at least escorted them out of Russia or something... Why kill them?

Because the 18 million figure that is usually quoted is largely not made up of people that he rounded up and shot. Most of it is victims of starvation in the period following the war, when the economy was pretty much shot (as it was elsewhere in Europe ... millions of Germans starved to death in the US and British zones in the period just after the war, too ... it was impossible to prevent, there was no food and the infrastructure to import food was wrecked and could only handle so much).

Not that he didn't round up people and shoot them too, but certainly not as many as that.

 

[Comrade Alex]

but he did create an 'IRON CURTAIN" between russia and america.

Generally, I believe that can be attributed less to Stalin, and more to Truman and NATO.

That's what I wrote in my History GCSE anyway.

 

[a4phantom]

Because the 18 million figure that is usually quoted is largely not made up of people that he rounded up and shot. Most of it is victims of starvation in the period following the war, when the economy was pretty much shot

Likewise many died in the industrialization process, which killed many people in England and other countries when they went through it in the 19th century.

 

[frekk]

Likewise many died in the industrialization process, which killed many people in England and other countries when they went through it in the 19th century.

A bit more brutal than that, I might say. On the other hand, the costs of British industrialization were paid for by foreign populations who experienced a brutality not unlike that felt in the Ukrainian famine or other Stalinist atrocities on the path to industrialization.

 

[Comrade Alex]

Yeah, what about the British and their brutal, imperialist ways. Remove Victoria from the game, far more died beneath the heel of colonial oppression.

 

[Balderstrom]

Lets remove all the leaders from the game. We can play as an omnipotent God, like Black & White *chuckle*