No Russia in the Base Game?

[Krikkit1]

Buildings with the architecture of a Latin country can be seen around the Palacio de Bellas Artes. If it's not Mexico, it's something very close.

It's hard to believe that 4 of the 10 modern civs will be European. This means that almost half of the options to finish the game will be European countries. I believe that either Germany or Russia will be out.

I would probably guess Germany is out
Russia can come from Mongols, but there is no good exploration predecessor for Germany.

 

[Voidwalkin]

It's hard to believe that 4 of the 10 modern civs will be European. This means that almost half of the options to finish the game will be European countries. I believe that either Germany or Russia will be out.

This wouldn't make sense to me. If influence in the time period is weighed that far beneath regional representation, you might as well shed it as a consideration wholly.

This doesn't mean it's unimaginable. It would have been, in past eras, because DLC had yet to reshape the business incentives. As that happens, cynically, it makes more and more sense to release very influential civs through DLC, because it almost certainly has an extremely high dollars/dev time ratio.

 

[Xandinho]

This doesn't mean it's unimaginable. It would have been, in past eras, because DLC had yet to reshape the business incentives. As that happens, cynically, it makes more and more sense to release very influential civs through DLC, because it almost certainly has an extremely high dollars/dev time ratio.

I think a DLC having Teutons, Habsburg Germany and German Empire would sell really really well.

 

[j51]

I would probably guess Germany is out
Russia can come from Mongols, but there is no good exploration predecessor fo Germany.

They clearly don’t give a rat’s butt about good predecessors, or they’d release with more civs. Who knows who’s in or out at this point.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The Panzer is pretty solid evidence that Germany is in. UNLESS Germany isn't in and there's another way to get Panzers, like if it's unlocked by taking the Totalitarian government or something.

 

[AriochIV]

The tank shown is a Pz IV, not III: 8 rather than 6 small road wheels on each side is the 'tell' between the two: the Pz III was officially a Light Tank which originally weighed less than 20 tons, the Pz IV a Medium tank weighing (originally) 22 tons and carrying the short barreled 75mm cannon shown on the model.

I specifically looked for that and thought I saw 6 wheels. I need new glasses.

 

[Voidwalkin]

like if it's unlocked by taking the Totalitarian government or something

Find that less likely than Germany just being there.

Even if not in the base game, it is almost sure that Germany is planned via DLC, at some point. Giving any civ access seems like it's only something that would be done if Germany is a hard no not only on release but for the whole game.

Which I suppose is possible? But I don't see it.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think a DLC having Teutons, Habsburg Germany and German Empire would sell really really well.

Since the first DLCs are each 4 Civs and 2 Leaders, I suggest that a 'Teutonic' DLC might be:

Antiquity Age Tuetoni (or Cimbri, Suebi, Batavi, all of which interacted with the Romans more)
Exploration Age Holy Roman Empire
Direct Progression from Teutoni
Indirect Progression from Rome
Associated Wonders: Hildesheim Cathedral OR Wartburg Castle
Leader: Maria Theresa
Exploration Age Bohemia
Direct Progression from Tuetoni
Indirect Progression from Rome
Associated Wonder: Schönnbrunn Palace
Modern Age German Empire
Direct Progression from Holy Roman Empire
Indirect Progression from Goths
Associated Wonder: Brandenburg Gate
Leader: Friedrich III

 

[j51]

Since the first DLCs are each 4 Civs and 2 Leaders, I suggest that a 'Teutonic' DLC might be:

Antiquity Age Tuetoni (or Cimbri, Suebi, Batavi, all of which interacted with the Romans more)
Exploration Age Holy Roman Empire
Direct Progression from Teutoni
Indirect Progression from Rome
Associated Wonders: Hildesheim Cathedral OR Wartburg Castle
Leader: Maria Theresa
Exploration Age Bohemia
Direct Progression from Tuetoni
Indirect Progression from Rome
Associated Wonder: Schönnbrunn Palace
Modern Age German Empire
Direct Progression from Holy Roman Empire
Indirect Progression from Goths
Associated Wonder: Brandenburg Gate
Leader: Friedrich III

Yeah but we should resign ourselves to never getting that level of content now. We’ll be lucky if we get modern Germany and 1 exploration age civ from Central Europe.

 

[brainwashh]

Germany ( as "Germany", not necesarily HRE or Teutons or Hanseatic League) is fine as an exploration age civ. What's the big deal. Modern Germany can come later as a DLC.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Germany ( as "Germany", not necesarily HRE or Teutons or Hanseatic League) is fine as an exploration age civ. What's the big deal. Modern Germany can come later as a DLC.

Germany is a pretty big market. Also, we currently have a roster which works just fine with Germany, Britain, France, Russia, etc. It only falls if people try to push some modern age LATAM civ there, which I found pretty unlikely on release.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Germany is a pretty big market. Also, we currently have a roster which works just fine with Germany, Britain, France, Russia, etc. It only falls if people try to push some modern age LATAM civ there, which I found pretty unlikely on release.

This is a pretty accurate statement.

Regardless of what we get at launch, we do know that Firaxis is approached by countries for representation, and that it does factor into modern nationalism and sales to some extent. It's very likely why Canada, Australia, Vietnam, and Scotland (and maybe Gran Colombia) were included in VI, and why we will probably be seeing Mexico and maybe Italy in VII at some point.

Which does mean that they are taking (perhaps calculated) risks if they are planning to launch the game without a Germany, or Britain, or Canada, or Australia.

 

[Kulko]

Germany is a pretty big market. Also, we currently have a roster which works just fine with Germany, Britain, France, Russia, etc. It only falls if people try to push some modern age LATAM civ there, which I found pretty unlikely on release.

Being from Germany I agree with you, but most things I have seen so far point towards Firaxis focussing more one broad representation, than on catering only to the european markets. Europe won the Exploration age on the TSL Map. That shouldn't mean they need to win every publishing decision from here on until eternity. Germany will come and if Russia is left out they wil come too.

As long as they don't choose a mentally challenged bavarian clown again as german leader I am fine.

 

[JNR13]

I still think Britain is out because we already got the Normans representing the isle. Ed was talking about civs in the sense of the game design philosophy in his PAX talk, not necessarily about civs in the base game. He also used the Franks to illustrate the progression system while emphasizing that such namedropping is not a confirmation of their presence in the base game. Stacks weren't a priority except for countries which have been ridiculous temporal blobs so far, i.e. China and India. Outside of these two countries, the selections so far feel like they've been made the same way as for any other game before, just with a lot more civs. I doubt that staples of previous games are now out after the roster was expanded by 50%.

Mexico or another LatAm has got to be in because of the city style.

Don't overrate the tank appearances though, unit skins don't mean much. Have we learned nothing from the whole Gaul thing? However, without Britain, Germany and Russia and Mexico could be in.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

I still think Britain is out because we already got the Normans representing the isle. Ed was talking about civs in the sense of the game design philosophy in his PAX talk, not necessarily about civs in the base game. He also used the Franks to illustrate the progression system while emphasizing that such namedropping is not a confirmation of their presence in the base game. Stacks weren't a priority except for countries which have been ridiculous temporal blobs so far, i.e. China and India. Outside of these two countries, the selections so far feel like they've been made the same way as for any other game before, just with a lot more civs. I doubt that staples of previous games are now out after the roster was expanded by 50%.

Mexico or another LatAm has got to be in because of the city style.

Don't overrate the tank appearances though, unit skins don't mean much. Have we learned nothing from the whole Gaul thing? However, without Britain, Germany and Russia and Mexico could be in.

While it's possible Britain is gone, I still think the fact that the game was openly directly inspired by Rome - Norman - Britain makes it pretty likely. To be clear, I'd be perfectly fine with dropping Britain for another civ on launch, and I suppose it does seem a bit odd that they've yet to directly state it, but they were talking about Napoleon and Ashoka specifically in that presentation.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To be clear, I'd be perfectly fine with dropping Britain for another civ on launch, and I suppose it does seem a bit odd that they've yet to directly state it, but they were talking about Napoleon and Ashoka specifically in that presentation.

I agree, especially we had specifically Exploration Age England. I do wonder how much "English" will be in the Norman civ and whether it will feel like playing an Exploration Age England.

 

[Xandinho]

Germany is a pretty big market. Also, we currently have a roster which works just fine with Germany, Britain, France, Russia, etc. It only falls if people try to push some modern age LATAM civ there, which I found pretty unlikely on release.

Mexico works perfectly well for an era transition mechanic, as it’s a country heavily influenced by its ancestral cultures (though, of course, transitioning from the Incas instead of the Aztecs might seem confusing, the point still stands) - furthermore, the Latin architecture seen in the screenshots is one of the main clues that reinforces the inclusion of Mexico.. Even with the likely transition coming from the Incas, I don’t think Germany or Russia have more fitting historical paths than Mexico at launch.

I’m still hesitant to believe that the British are out. In fact, it seems we haven’t seen many signs of them so far. But if the Normans are meant to somehow represent medieval England, then maybe...

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I still think Britain is out because we already got the Normans representing the isle. Ed was talking about civs in the sense of the game design philosophy in his PAX talk, not necessarily about civs in the base game. He also used the Franks to illustrate the progression system while emphasizing that such namedropping is not a confirmation of their presence in the base game. Stacks weren't a priority except for countries which have been ridiculous temporal blobs so far, i.e. China and India. Outside of these two countries, the selections so far feel like they've been made the same way as for any other game before, just with a lot more civs. I doubt that staples of previous games are now out after the roster was expanded by 50%.

Mexico or another LatAm has got to be in because of the city style.

Don't overrate the tank appearances though, unit skins don't mean much. Have we learned nothing from the whole Gaul thing? However, without Britain, Germany and Russia and Mexico could be in.

Personally as an Englishman, I hope Normans aren't the only representation of the isle we end up getting. The normans were French/Viking invaders that supplanted the aristocracy. They took the title of King of England and reigned from there, incorporating themselves into the English tradition. The plantagenets leading England are what I would see an English civ, not the Normans. They might get a little English flavour, but it will be quite unsatisfying.

1066 is remembered here for the end of the Anglo saxon dynasty and famously the last time we were invaded - I don't think a hostile force is really going to be embraced as a good representation of the English civilization, similar to the Qing representing China.

 

[uppi]

While it's possible Britain is gone, I still think the fact that the game was openly directly inspired by Rome - Norman - Britain makes it pretty likely. To be clear, I'd be perfectly fine with dropping Britain for another civ on launch, and I suppose it does seem a bit odd that they've yet to directly state it, but they were talking about Napoleon and Ashoka specifically in that presentation.

In the Antiquity live stream, there were two unlocks for Normans in the modern age, one of them censored. Presumable these are ordered alphabetically, so the hidden civ comes before "French Empire". Which could be either Britain or America, but not both. If Britain is in, there likely is no direct unlock of America by European civs. Which would be strange but possible, I guess?

Total crackpot theory (and I don't believe it one second): Maybe there is no America? Do we have direct confirmation of it?

 

[JNR13]

I mean, England is basically "hostile invaders" all the way down. The Plantagenets aren't of Iceni descent or so either, after all. Considering the Normans some extraordinary foreign occupiers of some oppressed English nation is a bit ridiculous. And honestly, I get that as an Englishman, you want more than one civ to represent you, but surely you'll understand that one bad rep is still better than none. And Qing isn't the only civ from the history of China, so they aren't really "representing" anyone but themselves. I don't care too much about Chinese nationalists complaining about the Qing inclusion, either, because they already have two other Chinese civs in the game.

As a German, I wouldn't complain if all we were represented by was a Frankish civ that also covers medieval France. Even something like Bohemia representing the HRE and medieval central Europe I'd be fine with. Just... *something*, you know.

I think Britain will be one of the first DLC civs, possibly under "Right to Rule".

In the Antiquity live stream, there were two unlocks for Normans in the modern age, one of them censored. Presumable these are ordered alphabetically, so the hidden civ comes before "French Empire". Which could be either Britain or America, but not both.

Nice catch!

Total crackpot theory (and I don't believe it one second): Maybe there is no America? Do we have direct confirmation of it?

One of the screenshot file names had "America" in it. The City Hall model in it is consistent with the City Hall in city clusters that also have a palace that looks like the Capitol building. Also, come on, there's just no way they'd leave out America.