I'm wondering how critical start location is if there is a lot of desert? I've restarted about 50x as Xerxes and I always seem to be dumped in the middle of the desert. There is always a river but not always any production (hills/forests). Can I get away with these starts? It seems that for certain leaders or empires that the game tries to give a historically aligned start location.
I am not sure I agree with that. Some starts get you considerably slower out of the gate than others. And in the early game that can really matter a lot.
Navigable rivers are bad, the rest is okay. terrain type doesn't really matter that much anymore - warehouse buildings ensure you always have good yields. Tundra and Desert aren't much worse than plains or grassland.
features otoh are very important because they determine what improvements you're getting. but I find that those are fairly well balanced too. It's rare to have a settlement with little food, and only settlements on coast suffer in production.
I am not sure I agree with that. Some starts get you considerably slower out of the gate than others. And in the early game that can really matter a lot.
I am not sure I agree with that. Some starts get you considerably slower out of the gate than others. And in the early game that can really matter a lot.
Questionable. Navigable rives provide access to ocean and many related tile improvements for inland settlements. Not to mention the ability to unlock and use additional Songhai treasure convoys.
Although, sure, if you place settlements in a wrong way, navigable rivers will break settlement connection, unless you build bridges or connect settlements by water.
Although, sure, if you place settlements in a wrong way, navigable rivers will break settlement connection, unless you build bridges or connect settlements by water.
I really dislike them though. Buildings and quarters are so important in the capital, and with resources being a permanent fixture, you can easily get boxed in with a navigable river start.
They're okay for your other settlements, but for a capital? not a fan. Mountains are less bad because those at least provide useful adjacencies to Culture buildings.
I really dislike them though. Buildings and quarters are so important in the capital, and with resources being a permanent fixture, you can easily get boxed in with a navigable river start.
They're okay for your other settlements, but for a capital? not a fan. Mountains are less bad because those at least provide useful adjacencies to Culture buildings.
But if you build any water building (i.e. Fishing Quay) on the river, it creates a district, so you could continue building on the other side of the river. How it makes you boxed?
I've had cases where the navigable river takes up too many tiles of the capital, and sometimes you get a bad layout of resources or mountains that means it's not as simple to expand to the other side.
But given my capital is generally never going to lose a tile to another settlement, and has the full tile set to work with, even in the worst case if you have a bad river spot, too much water, etc.. maybe I have to skip a warehouse building, or don't have the full free space to get all the wonders in. And when you get later, those nav rivers can make for some juicy markets/inns to help you along too.
For me the "bad" capitals are where you get either a bad resource set, they're too far that you have to build out too much to get to them, or they're just laid out in an annoying way that I have to waste a lot of tiles. Those are the times where I might aim for a restart. But desert is usually good because camels.
There's an interesting video, "What's going on with CIv VII's Balance?" that discusses this (linked below at the point where that discussion beings). TL;DR, resource yields are normalized across all types, so it's hard to get a super bad starting location, but it also removes most of the high-risk, high reward scenarios as well.
The "Terrain rainbow" is a little strange too (IIRC Tundra, desert, plains, grassland, tropical). I'm on the fence about it - on one hand it's nice to have a little predictability in the early game when you're exploring, but you can also get locked out of a terrain (and its Wonders) based on the other civs' location. I guess that's why they changed Pyramids and Ha'amonga 'a Maui so that they can be built almost anywhere. Thank goodness - I had FOMO just thinking about it!
Apparently Firaxis is doing more work on map generation, so it will be interesting to see if the Terrain Rainbow survives that. I guess if you can build Wonders anywhere and the yields are the same, it doesn't really matter, but we'll see.
Hopefully the next round of map generation will make the biomes a little more flexible, so you're not as strict as to what order they appear in on the map. Opening up the wonders that aren't too specific to a biome helps too.
You can get some starts that are stronger than others, for sure. Especially for culture, the difference between starting in mountains or with a natural wonder, vs starting in vast open land, can be quite massive. But unless if you ONLY have flat tiles, without any vegetation, rough, or wet tiles, you're bound to at least be able to get some production out of anything.
I think it would be more appropriate if tundra and desert had lower yields in a future patch. It seems unnatural to me to see farms flourishing so easily in the desert.
I think it would be more appropriate if tundra and desert had lower yields in a future patch. It seems unnatural to me to see farms flourishing so easily in the desert.
At least until irrigation is researched, when desert could become one of the most fertile tiles under some circumstances. But having game rules like "desert next to a river or navigable river increases food by +2" is probably too complicated.
At least until irrigation is researched, when desert could become one of the most fertile tiles under some circumstances. But having game rules like "desert next to a river or navigable river increases food by +2" is probably too complicated.
If you could somehow set it up so that desert and tundra flat tiles (non-floodplain) were expedition bases, and not farms, that might balance a little more. Something that doesn't block you from expanding through them, but you only got like 1 happiness, instead of the multiple food you get from farm+granary, you'd be a lot more likely to want to work around them at least.
If you could somehow set it up so that desert and tundra flat tiles (non-floodplain) were expedition bases, and not farms, that might balance a little more. Something that doesn't block you from expanding through them, but you only got like 1 happiness, instead of the multiple food you get from farm+granary, you'd be a lot more likely to want to work around them at least.
Or plan accordingly to fill them with urban districts fast, which would maybe add a bit more of a dimensionality to the city planning. I like it – expedition base with 1 or 2 happiness and maybe 1 gold at some point with a tech in antiquity. Could also come with a narrative event that you are able to turn one of the small (invisible) oases on that tile into a large oasis powerhouse (see Dakhla or Kharga for example) that gives food and more gold, in exchange for a few turns of production.
Doesn't seem as punishing as VI for sure, but there is also more water in locations like desert and tundra than there was in VI, I feel, so that may have something to do with it.
"Bad" land terrain
Desert Tiles without Freshwater
Tundra Tiles not adjacent to a non-Tundra tile
Tropical Vegetated or Wet Tiles adjacent to 2?3 or more Vegetated/Wet tiles
If they did not have a Resource would all have the following characteristics
1. can only build "Expedition bases" there (ie no bonus improvement, no buildings)
2. units take damage if they end turn there
To mitigate "starting in Tundra/Desert/Tropics"
Terrain Traditions*
You receive 2 choices of a "Terrain Tradition"
one with Agriculture and the other with Irrigation
Each Land Terrain type (maybe Water as well) has 2 Traditions so you could take both in one Terrain type (or get one bonus in two Terrain Types because you want to expand)
They would allow your units to take less damage in those terrains and either give you bonuses for (non-mountain/Natural Wonder) expedition bases in that Terrain (or allow something other than an expedition base in certain types of the Terrain)
For non Hostile Terrains (Grass/Plains) it could be a bonus to Farms with Freshwater or to Pastures+Plantations+Camps on the right Terrain type
(smaller bonuses but still there)
In Exploration
The tiles could have buildings placed on them(possibly costing more to build or some other penalty) and units in friendly urban districts would not take damage (possibly you can adopt a Third Tradition) In Modern
Techs start to allow the tiles to be used as normal, but unimproved tiles could still cause damage to units (possibly adopt a Third or Fourth Tradition)
This could give a nice Assymetrical balance.... without having a "Bad start" because if you start in a "Bad terrain" you just make it better for you
This would also allow "opening up" a little bit more instead of just NoDL Antiquity->DL in Exploration
you have ... only your Terrain to multiple Terrain types as you handle it better.
*I say Tradition here only because it should carry over between Ages... not necessarily that it needs a Social Policy slot
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