azzaman333
meh
My only problem with subs is that they cant bombard, unlike bombers. Whilst subs would be enjoyable to use, I dont feel its worth the 4 turn extra wait for the valuable bombers.
Domestic Ministry - Term X
- Thread starter Chamnix
- Start date
classical_hero said:
I figure I should respond to this since I missed it the first time. We do have the money to continue fast research for our last 3 techs. Mass Production and Amphibious War are both much cheaper than Flight. Flight will be done in 4 at a deficit of around 250 gpt. Mass Production should not require much of a deficit, if any, and Amphibious War should be at a small profit (especially if I can convince our Defense Minister to eliminate the slow troops
). You are right that we are not going to have a lot of cash to rush bombers which only makes keeping workers around more valuable. Leaving aside donsigs fun factor, I dont see how building and paying for extra useless units (subs) helps us get more cash for bombers.
There was some more X-posting there...
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
I understand the romance of having submarines and controlling the seas but despite the comments of some, an honest appraisal of history reveals the almost total inconsequential nature of the navy in this game.
Thank Meleet we didn't waste money on boats when some advocated it!! We were perilously close to not having enough forces when the Dnuts invaded, and if we had been building boats, we would have been even closer to doom. And make no mistake, all our beautiful boats would NOT have stopped the invasion - because the boats leapt from Dnut port to our shore in 1 turn anyway.
Let the Nuts waste their money trying to control the sea. I'm more interested in controlling the Land! And with the range of transports and the closeness of the Battle Island, all we'll need is bombers, transports, and "boots on the ground" their navy won't be able to stop us.
Personally, after our evisceration of the Nut army, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that the Nuts just disbanded their entire fleet (except for the pirates) - No sense in them wasting more money maintaining it.
Anyway, we need a few forces to mop up any pirates on our fishes after our artillery has redlined them, but a couple destroyers will be plenty for that job. They can move twice as far as subs, are twice as strong on defense, and are 50% better attackers. All for just an extra 20 shields. 3 or 4 of these bad boys should be enough to totally guard our coast from any pirate or other enemy naval activity.
The only other boats I can even imagine building (besides the aforementioned piles of Transports) is a few Carriers for projecting our Air war further into the heart of the Battle Island.
Just my 2 cents.
Thank Meleet we didn't waste money on boats when some advocated it!! We were perilously close to not having enough forces when the Dnuts invaded, and if we had been building boats, we would have been even closer to doom. And make no mistake, all our beautiful boats would NOT have stopped the invasion - because the boats leapt from Dnut port to our shore in 1 turn anyway.
Let the Nuts waste their money trying to control the sea. I'm more interested in controlling the Land! And with the range of transports and the closeness of the Battle Island, all we'll need is bombers, transports, and "boots on the ground" their navy won't be able to stop us.
Personally, after our evisceration of the Nut army, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that the Nuts just disbanded their entire fleet (except for the pirates) - No sense in them wasting more money maintaining it.
Anyway, we need a few forces to mop up any pirates on our fishes after our artillery has redlined them, but a couple destroyers will be plenty for that job. They can move twice as far as subs, are twice as strong on defense, and are 50% better attackers. All for just an extra 20 shields. 3 or 4 of these bad boys should be enough to totally guard our coast from any pirate or other enemy naval activity.
The only other boats I can even imagine building (besides the aforementioned piles of Transports) is a few Carriers for projecting our Air war further into the heart of the Battle Island.
Just my 2 cents.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Let me also say… (since double posting seems to be fashionable these days)…
I'm really ok with getting Mass Production and even Amphibious Warfare before we get flight. Dnuts are so hopelessly behind us, it's not a worry.
My only concern with doing that would be messing up the timing of our pre-builds.
But if Chamnix thinks it can be worked out – then I'm fine with whatever order. I just don't want to choose Mass Production because we want to get subs!!
I'm really ok with getting Mass Production and even Amphibious Warfare before we get flight. Dnuts are so hopelessly behind us, it's not a worry.
My only concern with doing that would be messing up the timing of our pre-builds.
But if Chamnix thinks it can be worked out – then I'm fine with whatever order. I just don't want to choose Mass Production because we want to get subs!!
As far as our prebuilds go, I don't think there will be any problem in the north - all of those towns are a long ways away from anything so as long as our Glorious President doesn't overchop into 1 town or disband too many units in one place, those towns should be fine.
Certainly a couple mid-corruption towns in the south will miss a bomber and have to start over if we delay Flight an additional 4 or 8 turns, so we will have fewer bombers if we wait, but I'm not sure how important that is. It also means we have fewer turns of bombing runs - instead of starting to bomb them on 200, we will have to wait until 204 (incidentally, I don't think there is any way we should delay Flight until after Amphibious War - that wouldn't give us time to rebase our bombers to where they need to be by 208).
I'm still leaning toward sticking with Flight next, and I'm going to leave the orders that way right now, but people may still have a few hours to try to change my mind before the General is scheduled to play.
Certainly a couple mid-corruption towns in the south will miss a bomber and have to start over if we delay Flight an additional 4 or 8 turns, so we will have fewer bombers if we wait, but I'm not sure how important that is. It also means we have fewer turns of bombing runs - instead of starting to bomb them on 200, we will have to wait until 204 (incidentally, I don't think there is any way we should delay Flight until after Amphibious War - that wouldn't give us time to rebase our bombers to where they need to be by 208).
I'm still leaning toward sticking with Flight next, and I'm going to leave the orders that way right now, but people may still have a few hours to try to change my mind before the General is scheduled to play.
Turn 196
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Heron completes transport, start infantry.
Virtuoso comletes cavalry, start cavalry.
Look Here completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Ephebe completes transport, start infantry.
Aliakmon Stronghold completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Parga comletes infantry, start infantry.
Olympia completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Hindus River completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Agrili completes infantry, start infantry.
Change Abdera from infantry to destroyer.
Change Phi Beta Kappa from infantry to transport.
Sell granary in Polecat.
Sell granary in Sword of General_W.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science down to 70%.
It is Domestic's opinion that the 2 regular infantry we just completed by mistake should be disbanded in corrupt towns.
Start in one corner of our island and work your way methodically. If you think it helps, I know other people have renamed cities to note which tiles near them have been chopped (e.g. when you chop the tile W of Fe's Winery, change its name to Fe's Winery 4. When you later chop the tile SW, then change the name to Fe's Winery 41, etc.).
This explains where the chop goes - you can also control it by setting towns that would get the chop to Palace or Military Academy to send the chop to the next town in line.
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Heron completes transport, start infantry.
Virtuoso comletes cavalry, start cavalry.
Look Here completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Ephebe completes transport, start infantry.
Aliakmon Stronghold completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Parga comletes infantry, start infantry.
Olympia completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Hindus River completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Agrili completes infantry, start infantry.
Change Abdera from infantry to destroyer.
Change Phi Beta Kappa from infantry to transport.
Sell granary in Polecat.
Sell granary in Sword of General_W.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science down to 70%.
It is Domestic's opinion that the 2 regular infantry we just completed by mistake should be disbanded in corrupt towns.
General_W said:
Start in one corner of our island and work your way methodically. If you think it helps, I know other people have renamed cities to note which tiles near them have been chopped (e.g. when you chop the tile W of Fe's Winery, change its name to Fe's Winery 4. When you later chop the tile SW, then change the name to Fe's Winery 41, etc.).
This explains where the chop goes - you can also control it by setting towns that would get the chop to Palace or Military Academy to send the chop to the next town in line.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
That is rubbish. Had we had some ships that were capable of destroying those galleons, we could have totally wiped out their attacking force, but now we have to contend with not having fully finishing the Job. There is a reason for having a navy and that is for protection and advance warning so that we are not caught off guard from any attacks from other areas. Considering that we will not be going down that path, there must be other warning systems put in place, but I will allow someone else to come up with what we could do insted.General_W said:
Turn 197
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Athens completes cavalry, start cavalry (get back to 80 spt by taking 2 mined plains from Heron - Heron works coast).
Black Hole completes cavalry, start cavalry.
EMP City completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Meleagerville completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Antville completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Phoenopolis completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Change Heron from infantry to transport.
Change Rhodes from infantry to destroyer.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Flight in 2 turns.
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Athens completes cavalry, start cavalry (get back to 80 spt by taking 2 mined plains from Heron - Heron works coast).
Black Hole completes cavalry, start cavalry.
EMP City completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Meleagerville completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Antville completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Phoenopolis completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Change Heron from infantry to transport.
Change Rhodes from infantry to destroyer.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Flight in 2 turns.
A navy still won't earn its keep for protection. We are completely railed. If they land somewhere along our flanks, we can move units to deal with it instantly. If they attack from the same direction as last time, we won't see them coming until they are already landed. Any shields invested in a navy won't do any good, as those shields won't be able to do us any good against an enemy that has already landed.
We don't need warning systems to guard against an invasion. Until the other teams research Amphibious Warfare, we can attack any stack that lands.
As for not being able to eliminate the stragglers as they limped home, better placement of our existing forces might have prevented that, but perhaps not.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Well we will need an advance warning system in place when we are about to attack because we could get caught off when are attacking them, thus we can stop any counter attack from ever happening in the first place. We need to be really ruthless in our planning otherwise we could be burnt and lose some impetence.
I have been advocating a navy for a long time and yet we still do not have a navy. :sigh:
I have been advocating a navy for a long time and yet we still do not have a navy. :sigh:
Turn 198
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Athens completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Heron completes transport, start infantry.
Virtuoso completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Look Here completes cavalry, start cavalry.
The Two Rivers completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Gorin completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Aliakmon Stronghold completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Phi Beta Kappa completes transport, start infantry.
Change Ephebe from infantry to transport.
Change Abdera from destroyer to transport.
Change Rhodes from destroyer to transport.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Flight in 1 turn. Please leave at least 11 extra scientists - I figure that will guarantee Flight even if any 2 tiles are struck with pollution.
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Athens completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Heron completes transport, start infantry.
Virtuoso completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Look Here completes cavalry, start cavalry.
The Two Rivers completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Gorin completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Aliakmon Stronghold completes cavalry, start cavalry.
Phi Beta Kappa completes transport, start infantry.
Change Ephebe from infantry to transport.
Change Abdera from destroyer to transport.
Change Rhodes from destroyer to transport.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Flight in 1 turn. Please leave at least 11 extra scientists - I figure that will guarantee Flight even if any 2 tiles are struck with pollution.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
The thing is that we will be attacking units that only have a defence of 2 thus subs will be highly effective in this plan of warfare. We will be able to attack via stealth and get away with it because even though they are weakly defended we still have greater defence than they have for offence. Sub can be quite usefull since the enemy will not know exactly where the attacks came from. But I think they will be awaste of tie since we really do not want to be in such a warfare and we want the battles to take place on the sea but on the land. Really the only unit that we need for escorts is the destroyer since they are cheap enough and are great defenders compared to what they have going around, plus they can bombard.azzaman333 said:
We must not forget the usefulness of fighters because they can provide reconance so they can be an early warning system so that we can basically cover the oceans and see where things are happening so that we cannot be caught unawares.I have a question, how many attacking ships do we have?
I think we have 5 frigates currently.
Someone is going to have to teach me about planes... can we bomb black areas of the map? Will that uncover them? If we bomb a tile 6 turns inside the Nuts border, will we see units on all tiles between the coast and the bombed tile? Will we see units next to the bombed tile? How do fighter reconnaisance missions work? This might all belong in the short answers thread, but classical's suggestion about fighters is what made me think about it.
Someone is going to have to teach me about planes... can we bomb black areas of the map? Will that uncover them? If we bomb a tile 6 turns inside the Nuts border, will we see units on all tiles between the coast and the bombed tile? Will we see units next to the bombed tile? How do fighter reconnaisance missions work? This might all belong in the short answers thread, but classical's suggestion about fighters is what made me think about it.
Turn 199
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Complete Flight, start Mass Production.
Builds
Athens completes cavalry, start infantry.
Black Hole completes cavalry, start infantry.
EMP City completes cavalry, start infantry.
Meleagerville completes cavalry, start infantry.
Antville completes cavalry, start infantry.
Ephebe completes transport, start infantry.
Phoenopolis completes cavalry, start infantry.
Regent Mansion completes infantry, start wealth.
Abdera completes transport, start infantry.
Rhodes completes transport, start infantry.
Change Heron from infantry to bomber (or fighter if they are useful).
Change Virtuoso from infantry to bomber.
Change Look Here from cavalry to infantry.
Change Aliakmon Stronghold from cavalry to infantry.
Change Tarkingrad from infantry to bomber.
Change Filiatra from infantry to bomber.
Change Far West Port from transport to destroyer.
Sell the granary in Classical's Chamber.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Mass Production in 4 turns (50%?).
It looks like money is going to be a lot tighter than I had hoped. Fortunately Amphibious War is even cheaper than Mass Production. Also, it looks like we are very close to being able to drop to 40% science, so I'm optimistic we can still run a small profit researching MP - there's just not as much rush money available as I would have liked.
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Complete Flight, start Mass Production.
Builds
Athens completes cavalry, start infantry.
Black Hole completes cavalry, start infantry.
EMP City completes cavalry, start infantry.
Meleagerville completes cavalry, start infantry.
Antville completes cavalry, start infantry.
Ephebe completes transport, start infantry.
Phoenopolis completes cavalry, start infantry.
Regent Mansion completes infantry, start wealth.
Abdera completes transport, start infantry.
Rhodes completes transport, start infantry.
Change Heron from infantry to bomber (or fighter if they are useful).
Change Virtuoso from infantry to bomber.
Change Look Here from cavalry to infantry.
Change Aliakmon Stronghold from cavalry to infantry.
Change Tarkingrad from infantry to bomber.
Change Filiatra from infantry to bomber.
Change Far West Port from transport to destroyer.
Sell the granary in Classical's Chamber.
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Mass Production in 4 turns (50%?).
It looks like money is going to be a lot tighter than I had hoped. Fortunately Amphibious War is even cheaper than Mass Production. Also, it looks like we are very close to being able to drop to 40% science, so I'm optimistic we can still run a small profit researching MP - there's just not as much rush money available as I would have liked.
If money is an issue, we could always demand tribute 
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Bombers do not show the square that you are bombarding, they will just tell if you have cause bombardment or not. The fighters reveal 2 squares from where you point the reconnaisance for the plane to see.Chamnix said:
Turn 200
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Heron completes fighter, start infantry.
Change Athens from infantry to bomber (give some shields from Athens to Heron).
Change Black Hole from infantry to bomber.
Change April Fools from infantry to bomber.
Change Ceasaria from infantry to bomber.
Change Olympia from cavalry to infantry.
Change Hindus River from cavalry to infantry.
Change Pale Dove from infantry to destroyer.
Change Phi Beta Kappa from infantry to bomber.
Probably change Tower of Azzaman to bomber if you chop in that area (and any other towns that will accumulate too many shields for infantry).
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Mass Production in 3 turns (40%?).
I'm going to post these orders in the Instructions for the President thread as well in case General_W wants to play the save, but if anyone disagrees with anything, post here, and I will consider editing my instructions if it is not already too late.
Builds
Heron completes fighter, start infantry.
Change Athens from infantry to bomber (give some shields from Athens to Heron).
Change Black Hole from infantry to bomber.
Change April Fools from infantry to bomber.
Change Ceasaria from infantry to bomber.
Change Olympia from cavalry to infantry.
Change Hindus River from cavalry to infantry.
Change Pale Dove from infantry to destroyer.
Change Phi Beta Kappa from infantry to bomber.
Probably change Tower of Azzaman to bomber if you chop in that area (and any other towns that will accumulate too many shields for infantry).
Sliders
Luxuries at 20%.
Science at whatever it takes to get Mass Production in 3 turns (40%?).
