Domestic T1 Poll1: Settlement Density

[MOTH]

We must decide as a nation what we want our settlement density to be during general expansion. At this point this is to cover the next 30-50 turns. During this time we should get between 4 and 8 additional settlers. Tactical discussions will include settlement order and site selection (dot maps).

Discussion can be found here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113150

A map of our currently known territory is at the bottom of this post.

For the purposes of the poll please refer to the following definitions:
Very Low Density: Allowing the full 21 tiles per city.
Low Density: Anything allowing more than 14 (but less than 20) workable tiles per city.
Medium Density: Allowing between 8-13 workable tiles per city.
High Density: Allowing 7 or less tiles per city.

Options:
1. Very Low density in High-food areas, low to medium density in low-food or coastal areas
High food areas should have 20 tiles available. Low food areas (tundra, desert) should use overlapping tiles. Exceptions should be made in coastal areas to allow for some overlap..
2. Low Density. Allow for tile changes over the course of the game.
3. Medium to low Density, coastal caution.
13 tiles per city in all areas and be careful with initial coastal placement as they could make harbors necessary thus eating into the Seafaring commercial bonus.
4. Low to Medium inland. Medium to High density on the coast.
A tight build on the coast and a looser build inland with good terrain to maximize seafaring trait.
5. Medium Density using rough CxxC pattern.
Cities no closer than 3 tiles away from each other.
6. Medium Density if fresh water, high density if not.
13 Tiles to support 12 citizens if fresh water, 7 tiles to support 6 citizens if aqueduct needed.
7. Other - Please include a post with what you want.
8. Abstain.

Poll Interpretation: This will provide guidance to the Director of Expansion for use in the tactical discussions and decisions. The options are in a general spectrum from less dense to more dense. It is expected that the mean of the votes will be used in designing the tactical plans. If for some reason there is heavy support (25+%) on both ends of the spectrum then poll will be invalidated and discussions will be expanded before re-polling.

This will be open for 4 days, but the Director of Expansion may use the voting trends to start Tactical Plans. So, vote early and vote often

 

[MOTH]

I voted for option 3. It will be a long time before we have hospitals, so allowing for 13 tiles per city will allow maximum use of the land we get. It will also allow for sharing/swapping of improved tiles to allow for optimal micromanagement opportunities. This placement will also allow for specialists once later improvements like Railroads and Hospitals allow greater growth.

 

[blackheart]

By high density you mean that some cities will have overlapping tiles right?

 

[MOTH]

By high density you mean that some cities will have overlapping tiles right?

The definitions are at the top of the 1st post. namely:
High Density: Allowing 7 or less tiles per city.

 

[classical_hero]

Why does having Habours eat into the com/sea bonus? And what does that mean?

 

[RegentMan]

Since we are seafaring, each city that is built on the coast has extra commerce in its city square. Additionally, since we are commercial as well, the traits stack, therefore we'll be an economic powerhouse.

 

[mad-bax]

We still need a harbour to make 2 food from the water tiles and to gain additional food from fish and whales. The harbour takes 1gpt maintenance and we end up with no commercial advantage and a city with 50% of its tiles not producing shields - or a city with no harbour that cannot grow because it can only get 1 food from a water tiles. Therefore we would need Smiths in order to get this advantage back. Coastal caution means just that. Build coastal cities with a purpose other than just because "it's on the coast and we are seafaring and we can fit one in".

 

[TimBentley]

Why does having Habours eat into the com/sea bonus? And what does that mean?

Since harbors cost 1gpt to maintain, that eats into the gold bonus. After gold multipling buildings are built (eg library or market), the bonus will still produce more gold.

 

[classical_hero]

Thanks for the reply's to my question. With the answers I got the reasoning for my vote. I voted for option three because it is the best option.

 

[GoodGame]

Medium density with approximate CxxC pattern, for about the next 2 to 3 cities, to make worker factories until the capital is a settler factory----then found the next settler factory, and free the capital for better development.

Afterwards, free-form city pattern, emphasizing resource claiming

MapMaking Harbors, dense coast lines aren't really a great early development plan---just look at all the free river inland. Except maybe in the desert.

Better to grab the good stuff early and worry about being 'seafaring' later.

 

[RegentMan]

Better to grab the good stuff early and worry about being 'seafaring' later.

Worrying about seafaring later will cost us thousands and thousands of gold. Settle all non-inland cities on the coast.

 

[mad-bax]

Yes. Rivers are better for us than coast. No harbour, No Aqueduct, All tiles producing shields, most tiles producing enough food to support the citizen that works it, commercial trait anyway. Contrast that with a coastal city with no water bonuses, and no river. Good Grief!

 

[classical_hero]

Worrying about seafaring later will cost us thousands and thousands of gold. Settle all non-inland cities on the coast.

Both in moderation is what is needed. We need productive cities and coastal cities for our trait benifit, but not just for that purpose because they need to be placed carefully.

 

[RegentMan]

They do indeed need to be settled carefully... on the coast. I'm not talking about all cities we found; I just don't want to see any cities founded one tile away from the coast.

 

[DaveShack]

Something doesn't add up with the coastal caution discussion. I thought that when there is a harbor and we're seafaring, every worked water tile gets extra commerce. Sure we might need to be out of despotism to see the benefit, but pretty sure there is a definite benefit to building coastal cities vs 1-2 tiles inland. If the game goes long enough, we can get shields and extra commerce from coastal tiles. Granted we'd need to be in the late industrial or modern era to get the benefit, but suppose we go for histograph? Don't have the game loaded right now, but I'm thinking offshore platforms and commerical docks.

 

[MOTH]

The final results of this (for the next 30-50 turns) is that we will target a city placement of medium to low density (about 13 workable tiles) and we will settle coastal sites if there is a good reason (such as a cow we want to deny an AI).

I will update the Strategies thread in the government section.

 

[mad-bax]

Something doesn't add up with the coastal caution discussion. I thought that when there is a harbor and we're seafaring, every worked water tile gets extra commerce.

If this is true then I have screwed up. I thought only the city centre gets the additional commerce. If every water tile gets it then we need to work every water tile we can reach.

I think it is a little soon to start planning for commercial docks - where will the captial be then. On the southern tip of a large pangea? I hope not Mr President.

I checked. Here is the definition ripped out of the pedia.

^
^
^{Seafaring}
^Each city built along the coast receives a commerce bonus in the center city square, and Seafaring city
improvements (such as the Harbor or Commercial Dock) are easier to build. Ships move faster and are less likely to sink in the sea or ocean.