Domestic T3 D3- When to revolt to Republic?

[greekguy]

Since it looks like we will be getting republic soon, either through a Dutch peace treaty or a trade with another foriegn nation. We already agreed to switch to Republic government, so we now need to decide when will overthrow our despotic overlords. Republic is very important to help our developing country and when we switch to it is important. I urge all citizens to discuss and add their ideas to this discussion.

 

[Furiey]

We have reached the stage where we will make Peace with the Dutch. There will then be a period of re-grouping and healing for our troops before we move on India. If the Commander of the Armed Forces is confident that we have enough troops to deal with India (as none will be completed during Anarchy) then let's use this period to revolt.

 

[zyxy]

We have more than 25 horses and swords, in vast majority veteran or elite. The elimination of India should be no problem with current troop levels -- the main question is on how many fronts we can attack at once

A much bigger issue is the economy. Republic brings in more cash, but also a high cost for unit upkeep. Can we balance the books? Do we need to poprush or vashrush markets?

As an aside: we may want to poprush Sebadoh (before revolt) to get rid of some foreign citizens.

 

[Furiey]

Sebadoh has 2 resistors. Unfortunately while they're resisting we can't pop-rush. So unless we want to delay the change we'll have to get rid of them another way. Cities that aren't resisting though can be pop-rushed, Is it worth also considering rushes before we revolt in some of our larger cities that would otherwise be unhappy and perhaps starve during the Anarchy period?

 

[GenMarshall]

We should wait untill the major wars are finished, then we shall revolt to the Republic.

 

[zyxy]

Furiey: good idea! On the other hand, once we are a republic we may want to have some cities at size 7, for lower unit support cost.

We have 4 luxes, 1 free content citizen on emperor, so a size 7 city will not riot with 1 entertainer, I think -- I'm not good at this, someone better check .

Concerning unit upkeep: I think we could get rid of some of our units, especially some warriors, spears and regulars. Our borders have become shorter and more defensible, and this will improve further with the annexation of the West Indies. I would like to know how many units have to be scrapped. In short, we need some numbers

I would not delay the switch just because of Sebadoh. We can always starve the city, or cashrush a worker if we get a really short anarchy. In fact, if we start disbanding obsolete forces we can even use their shields to rush a worker in anarchy.

Here's what CivAssist says about the economy (for the current save, 280AD) on the left for Despotism, on the right for Republic:

EDIT: note that the figures are for 0 science and 0 luxury. The latter is somewhat unrealistic until we get markets, it's more likely to be 10% or 20% initially.

EDIT2: CG, why?

 

[GenMarshall]

EDIT2: CG, why?

Why you may ask, during Anarchy, all production is halted untill the period of Anarchy has passed. If we are still producing military units to replace the fallen, the replacements would take a stop untill Anarchy has passed. This is especialy true if we do intend to build culture producing buildings since they too will be halted during Anarchy.

 

[LeeT911]

If the CivAssist info is correct, and we're sure we can fight the Indians in anarchy, I say revolt the turn we get the tech.

Republic ends up giving us more money even with our bloated military. We can start disbanding old or unecessary units. Don't need units in the interior since there's no MP in Republic. We'll probably want to keep the stack of horses as future knights, but other than that, we just need a few defenders at the borders and on the coast.

 

[zyxy]

CG, that is a valid reason. I think we have enough units for India, and probably also for China (if that's the next target after that), but of course you are welcome to join the discussion.

LeeT911, our military is not too big for our country. Our country is too small for our military .
Seriously, republic seems to get a bit more income than despotism, but that could easily be lost if we have to up the lux tax. Each 10% will cost us 16 gold if I see it correctly (net income = 253 total - 93 corruption = 160). If we don't want a lux tax, then any town of size 6 should get a temple or market, any of size 7 should get a market, and any of size 8 needs a temple and a market.

I agree with disbanding old units. I'll start making a list once I get some target numbers.

 

[Furiey]

Our forces will prbably be reduced in number in the coming wars, and the Spears and Warriors are proving to be quite useful as blocking units (there aren't that many sitting about playing cards on garrison duty). I wouldn't scrap too many yet.

 

[mad-bax]

I would like a turnchat that results in the trade for Republic, and then a halt so that I can adjust my cities for anarchy, or at least post instructions as to how I would like anarchy handled when it comes.

Thanks.

 

[zyxy]

I have though about it a bit more, and I think we should revolt right away. We have 1800 gold in the treasury, that's enough to cashrush 6 markets. Our best moneymakers are Roosting Tree, Donsignia, Camelot and Provolutia. The cities of BlackHole, New London, Warm'ogh and especially Husborne Crawley have good potential (they are a bit small now, but can make a lot of gold with all those rivers - Husborne Crawley has good growth potential). Chaos, Barchester, Rivendell and Skye also have high potential after we move the palace or build a central FP to lower their corruption.
I would suggest to revolt, and (short-)rush markets in Camelot, Roosting Tree and Donsignia right after the switch to republic. Probably also in Husborne Crawley. Provolutia, Oxford and Bentley are also good candidates. Assuming 100% tax, markets in Camelot, RT and donsignia would add some 27 gpt to our income in total, each of the others adds about 5 gpt (with far higher potential returns for HC).

Here's what CivAssist says for our economy under republic (280AD)

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I was thinking of disbanding units after the initial phase of the Indian War, that is, after taking out their western cities. That should shorten our front, or really, for the first time we would have something like a front. I think blocking units will be less needed from then on.

The most obvious candidates for disbanding are the curragh and the warriors.

 

[Bertie]

THIS THREAD has some discussion that is relevant here, I think.

I'm for revolting fairly soon: but after we've had a chance to do some pop-rushing and to arrange things in our cities as nicely as possible. Don't forget that we'll be at war for a bit yet. The Indians shouldn't take too long, and I don't think it will take long either to capture and raze Marseilles and Avignon. However, we don't want to risk excessive WW either. BTW, once we capture Bengal & Marseilles we have access to two additional luxuries, so that should help elevate our citizens' moods.

We also plan to war with the Chinese before too long. If we're able to get Chilvary, that should be a short war. This is more a reminder: I wouldn't delay a switch to the Republic on account of future wars. We have lots more to come, but once we get knights and especially calvary, they should all be fairly short.

 

[vikingruler]

with the unit cost, we should road everything, we have plenty of workers and the roads will get us cash to help balance the extremly high unit cost.

 

[GenMarshall]

@zyxy - Which version of CivAssist are you using? I or II?

 

[zyxy]

CG: version 2. It's very nice, try it!

 

[Double Stack]

The sooner the better. I suggest we revolt when we take the southern Indian cities

 

[GenMarshall]

The sooner the better. I suggest we revolt when we take the southern Indian cities

Are you willing to risk the sustantial production loss during anarchy in times of war? We will lose valuble time building units and badly needed culture buildings.

 

[mad-bax]

We will be at war continually until we reach the domination limit. Therefore, the sooner we get it out of the way the better. The Province of Fanatannia can function in anarchy - no towns will riot. In middle earth Roosting tree will riot at size 7.

The CoaF has stated that he has enough units to deal with India.

Now is the ideal time. We do of course need markets and libraries (and more units), but this is normal business.

 

[vikingruler]

if we go change governments right after dutch war, we will be in anarchy with 2 wars going on aganinst one fairly powerful enemy. i really don't think we have the forces, to have an indian war going and defend/take cities from the french. if we switch after india, we could amass our forces near france and defend our border or take their cities.